Advice needed for Bi amp / dual amp set up

[Dudgeman]

Hi you beautiful people...

 

Looking for advice/guidance on mini heads for bi amp rig. 

 

Scenario: currently I run 2 Marshall DBS 400  heads into a 4x10 and 2x15 cabs in a classic rock/metal covers band. 2 guitarists both on 100w rigs and animal on the drums  These amps are power houses ...sound great but parts are getting harder to find and I need something physically smaller. Rig is way too big for the smaller venues. I had to replace the 2x15 and 410 cabs for smaller venues so ..

 

I have made an old Ashdown 4x10 cab into a dual 2x10 cab... 400w per side neo Celestions at 4ohms. Paired with the heads it sounds killer but I need to retire the Marshall's. 

 

So I think I need 2 400w plus @4ohm mini/small ( class D???) heads to drive them. Or 200w or over but must be loud...(my long gone old trace 200 was deafening. But not all 200ws are built the same)  I tried the darkglass microtubes 200w today in Andertons and it's in the ball park volume wise ( well 2 of them would be) but I don't need their drive circuit...just good clean bass and it didn't do that so well. On my board I have a Dark Glass bk7 ultra pre in one Channel (for grit and oomph) and on the other a Laney  Digbeth pre to give me real old school warmth. ( Can highly recommend this pedal.  Sounds lovely) 

 

So can you give your advice/guidance....max budget really is about £900 for the 2 amps.... But cheaper is always a bonus. 

 

Do you think a pair of Warwick gnome or Trace elf (elves?)would be loud enough? Anyone got thoughts on the TC stuff?  Although I do need to check they can run at 4ohms.. any help would be really appreciated before we are off gigging again in March.

 

Thanks so much for taking the time to read this far and really hope you can guide...

Cheers

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

You might not need as much power as you think, nor dual heads. I may be able to confirm it knowing what drivers you have.

[Lozz196]

Keep it in house and get a couple of the Ashdown RM heads. Plenty of power, great sound, lightweight & portable, plus any issues UK based so easy to sort.

[warwickhunt]

You have a preamp, why not just buy a dedicated power amp?  These days watts are cheap enough and you aren't paying for all the unnecessary extras in a dedicated bass amp.  

[Dudgeman]

29 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

You have a preamp, why not just buy a dedicated power amp?  These days watts are cheap enough and you aren't paying for all the unnecessary extras in a dedicated bass amp.  

I did think about this as i have the preamps on the board ..what dual channel/stereo power amps do you know of? I'm not familiar with just power amps. Thanks. 

[Dudgeman]

1 hour ago, Lozz196 said:

Keep it in house and get a couple of the Ashdown RM heads. Plenty of power, great sound, lightweight & portable, plus any issues UK based so easy to sort.

Hi Lozz..... I did think about this.. I have an ABM 300w head that used to match the cab somewhere but it gave me nothing but problems so I had to stop using it live. I was never a huge fan of the sound but as I have preamps on the board if they have send return I could avoid the preamps. I'll take a look. Thanks

[Dudgeman]

13 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

You might not need as much power as you think, nor dual heads. I may be able to confirm it knowing what drivers you have.

Hi Bill the original cheaper speakers were swapped for Celestion bn10 200x Neos. Split in the cab ... One pair uses the horn.... The other pair on their own circuit. 2 separate speaking inputs on the back. Each side is 4 ohm rated as each pair is wired in parallel. One added bonus ...if I use both speakon outputs on one of the Marshall heads I get ato use the full 2 ohm 400w from the head and the cab is now 800w rated... Monster set up and the cab is lovely and compact. 

 

Happy if there is an alternative to dual amps but I always bi amped .. I did think about a stereo power amp but couldn't find new ones....stuff like the Marshall 9100 but I am trying to reduce size and weight and really want something new....my life has been using good quality SH gear and as good as it is there is always that niggling....will it go wrong tonight. ...doubt. 

 

 

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

The BN10-200X is displacement limited to 120 watts, so a 500w/8 ohm amp would have no problem driving four of them to maximum output. If you can't find one rated for 2 ohms rewire them to series/parallel for 8 ohms. BTW, you didn't bi-amp if you didn't have an electronic crossover. You were dual amping.

[Dudgeman]

1 hour ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

The BN10-200X is displacement limited to 120 watts, so a 500w/8 ohm amp would have no problem driving four of them to maximum output. If you can't find one rated for 2 ohms rewire them to series/parallel for 8 ohms. BTW, you didn't bi-amp if you didn't have an electronic crossover. You were dual amping.

Hi Bill

Technically I guess I do dual amp and I need a dual amp solution... Sorry I was unclear...when I said happy for an alternative I meant it still had to retain 2 amps...so dual mono..or stereo amp. Or 2 individual amps..as this is the way I get my sounds..(think Billy Sheehan/ Chris Wolstenholme etc) I want to keep the cab the same...so one amp into the left 2 x 10s plus horn (4 ohms) side and the second amp into the other 2x10s (also 4 ohms)  for deeper response. That way if I can't find what I am looking for then in the meantime I can still use my 2 DBS heads .... Which do sound fantastic through this modded cab. I just want newer, smaller and lighter solutions to the amps and as I said I have the preamps on my board. I have been researching dual channel power amps today and it has thrown up some cheaper solutions....like the Sub Zero stuff but I can't find enough reviews on their durability and sound. Do you have any suggestions on models or manufacturers that might be worth a look who do good quality dual mono or stereo bass amps that run each channel at 4 ohms? It could be I just need to grab a couple of decent class D 300w amps and ignore their preamp sections...maybe a decent bass specific dual mono amp isn't a thing but any more help Is always appreciated.  Thanks. 

 

 

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

When you've got four identical woofers sharing the same airspace you're not going to get a significant difference in response from each pair even if you were to bi-amp them, let alone dual amp.

[Bolo]

I'd get a boss LS2 or radial Di to mix the preamps together and send that to a fender rumble 800 or EBS reidmar 502 or other 2 Ohm amp.

Way easier to send that to the house desk or adjust your backline volume.

 

If you insist on dual amping, for which there is absolutely no reason imo, you could get two hartke or markbass units, or ampeg portaflexes. Anything 250w and up in parallel should be more than loud enough.

[fretmeister]

I used to do the whole twin amp thing. Started with a pair of Marshall VBC412 cabs. One fed with an Ashdown head for the lows and the other with a Hartke HA3500 for the highs and FX / drive.

 

Then I went with this.

 

Ampeg SVP-BSP Billy Sheehan preamp and a Line 6 Bass Pod. They both had clean blends so I would actually combine 4 sounds and heavily EQ the drives to make them as EQ specific as I could.

 

Then into a Yamaha P5000S stereo power amp. Each preamp got it's own side of the power amp and each side went into it's own cab.

 

I sounded amazing and weighed about as much as a planet.

 

Now for even higher volumes (when I need them) I use a single Barefaced Super Twin and some pedals that have clean blends built in. Sometimes a Helix.

 

 

[Dudgeman]

11 hours ago, Bolo said:

I'd get a boss LS2 or radial Di to mix the preamps together and send that to a fender rumble 800 or EBS reidmar 502 or other 2 Ohm amp.

Way easier to send that to the house desk or adjust your backline volume.

 

If you insist on dual amping, for which there is absolutely no reason imo, you could get two hartke or markbass units, or ampeg portaflexes. Anything 250w and up in parallel should be more than loud enough.

Thanks bolo.... I have an LS2 that I used to use to split an already split signal when doing the Muse tribute...it's a pedal no bassist should be without in my opinion..esp if you run multiple effects and need to blend.. But it still doesn't sound the same as 2 amps/ 2 cabs iny experience..Options I am looking at are standalone power amp... Or funnily enough I was thinking about the Ampegs/ little Mark route. ... Glad I am heading in the right direction. Thanks for your input...it's really appreciated. 

 

 

[jezzaboy]

Standalone power amp I hear you say?  

 

 

[Dudgeman]

6 hours ago, fretmeister said:

I used to do the whole twin amp thing. Started with a pair of Marshall VBC412 cabs. One fed with an Ashdown head for the lows and the other with a Hartke HA3500 for the highs and FX / drive.

 

Then I went with this.

 

Ampeg SVP-BSP Billy Sheehan preamp and a Line 6 Bass Pod. They both had clean blends so I would actually combine 4 sounds and heavily EQ the drives to make them as EQ specific as I could.

 

Then into a Yamaha P5000S stereo power amp. Each preamp got it's own side of the power amp and each side went into it's own cab.

 

I sounded amazing and weighed about as much as a planet.

 

Now for even higher volumes (when I need them) I use a single Barefaced Super Twin and some pedals that have clean blends built in. Sometimes a Helix.

 

 

Sound tweaking heaven right there. But like me the oh the weight...😂😂. I know my 4 10 split cab probably shouldn't work as well as separates but either by dumb luck or listening to the advice Celestion have me it sounds really good and I can lift it with one arm.. and it's footprint is ideal for smaller venues. 

[Dudgeman]

2 minutes ago, jezzaboy said:

Standalone power amp I hear you say?  

 

 

Do you work for Google? All of my recent searches have been Crown xls1002 so I find your post slightly disturbing...😂😂😂😉 Wasn't sure if it would work well enough as I believe these are mainly hifi based but they do get great reviews. I did come across one guy who was using the crown to power his axe FX guitar rig.... The Axe took some tweaking but it sounded great into his 2 x12. Let me check the specs on your unit and I'll pm you.