To EUB or go straight to DB 🤔 Case Closed

[JPJ]

So, as I’ve mentioned on here a few times, I’ve dabbled in the world of EUB owning both the Stagg (when it was fashionable) and a KK Baby Bass. I’m now playing in a country/Americana band and there’s probably half the set that would suit (and imho sound better) on double bass or a good EUB.

 

Things putting me off going straight to DB are the physical size and feedback issues (I have enough of them already with a loud drummer, two guitars, and gentle female lead vocal). Late night browsing threw up this interesting beast Thomas Slim Line double bass. I’m guessing the reduced body depth will reduce acoustic ‘volume’ but this might not be a bad thing on a loud live stage especially as I would be using some form of piezo pickup?

 

So here’s the question, do I stick with the idea of an EUB (most likely a NS WAV or NXT) or do i bite the bullet and go straight to db without passing go or collecting £200 (chance would be a fine thing - just to keep the monopoly puns going). 

 

All advice either way gratefully accepted.

Edited January 29, 2023 by JPJ

[ezbass]

I must say that I've been very pleased with my NS WAV. Aesthetically speaking, not the prettiest thing, but not bad compared to many. However, just moving around the house is a doddle and it packs up into a very neat gig bag. Yes. I'd like a DB, but buying one, getting it delivered, getting it the car, etc, are all reasons why I went EUB. Oh yeah, it sounds great through my Phil Jones gear.

[Happy Jack]

If you're going to play pukka Americana then you really do need to be playing a DB. That has surprisingly little to do with the sound and far more to do with the look.

 

The size difference is far less drastic than you might imagine. I have a 4/4 carved/ply DB, a 3/4 aluminium, and a Kolstein Busetto which is only a little larger than my old KK BabyBass. I play the Kolstein at really tight venues, natch, but that's more for ease of load-in/loud-out than because I haven't room for the 4/4. It's also because almost all of my DB gigs are doubling gigs, so for some of the gig I have to 'park' the DB somewhere while I play electric bass.

 

The feedback thing is all about learning how to control and avoid it. Extruded rubber f-hole blockers make an enormous difference, and equally important is NOT having your cab or combo right behind you and pointing straight at the DB. I played 60 feedback-free gigs on DB in 2022 at a very wide range of venues. I have a Crazy 8 cab on top of an old (spare) PA tripod pole, so my bass sound is aimed directly at my ears, not at the bass. Since I take a DI to the board at every gig, that works just fine.

 

Loud drummers can't be tamed, so best avoid them. 🙄

[Beedster]

15 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

If you're going to play pukka Americana then you really do need to be playing a DB. That has surprisingly little to do with the sound and far more to do with the look.

 

The size difference is far less drastic than you might imagine. I have a 4/4 carved/ply DB, a 3/4 aluminium, and a Kolstein Busetto which is only a little larger than my old KK BabyBass. I play the Kolstein at really tight venues, natch, but that's more for ease of load-in/loud-out than because I haven't room for the 4/4. It's also because almost all of my DB gigs are doubling gigs, so for some of the gig I have to 'park' the DB somewhere while I play electric bass.

 

The feedback thing is all about learning how to control and avoid it. Extruded rubber f-hole blockers make an enormous difference, and equally important is NOT having your cab or combo right behind you and pointing straight at the DB. I played 60 feedback-free gigs on DB in 2022 at a very wide range of venues. I have a Crazy 8 cab on top of an old (spare) PA tripod pole, so my bass sound is aimed directly at my ears, not at the bass. Since I take a DI to the board at every gig, that works just fine.

 

Loud drummers can't be tamed, so best avoid them. 🙄

Good advice, esp re drummists 👍

[NickA]

Straight to dB without a doubt.

 

Those NS eubs are lovely things and make a great sound, but not the same sound as a double bass ...and a quite differentb visual impact.

 

Feedback can be overcome ( careful amp and bass placement, maybe some notch filtering or a phase reverser).

 

Yes they're huge and bulky .. but mine is a 4/4 and still fits in my Skoda citigo along with my pjb flight case amp.

 

Go for it!

[JPJ]

On 20/01/2023 at 19:16, Happy Jack said:

If you're going to play pukka Americana then you really do need to be playing a DB. That has surprisingly little to do with the sound and far more to do with the look.

 

The size difference is far less drastic than you might imagine. I have a 4/4 carved/ply DB, a 3/4 aluminium, and a Kolstein Busetto which is only a little larger than my old KK BabyBass. I play the Kolstein at really tight venues, natch, but that's more for ease of load-in/loud-out than because I haven't room for the 4/4. It's also because almost all of my DB gigs are doubling gigs, so for some of the gig I have to 'park' the DB somewhere while I play electric bass.

 

The feedback thing is all about learning how to control and avoid it. Extruded rubber f-hole blockers make an enormous difference, and equally important is NOT having your cab or combo right behind you and pointing straight at the DB. I played 60 feedback-free gigs on DB in 2022 at a very wide range of venues. I have a Crazy 8 cab on top of an old (spare) PA tripod pole, so my bass sound is aimed directly at my ears, not at the bass. Since I take a DI to the board at every gig, that works just fine.

 

Loud drummers can't be tamed, so best avoid them. 🙄

 

Not really pucka Americana as the set is a right old mix up of Americana, country, and country blues but I hear what you’re saying from the purists view point. Your Kolstein Busetto looks ideal - the right compromise between double bass and EUB but way out of my price range and similar in look to the Eminence which is also on my radar although it seems fairly rare. Like you, I’ll be doubling so I need to think about space on stage too. 

[Happy Jack]

I was VERY lucky with that Kolstein ... it's an instrument with 'issues' which seriously impacted its value, plus it was sold to me by a friend, so it cost me way less than you probably think.

 

As a rock'n'roll DB to be played in tight spaces (including dodgy pubs) it's hard to beat. And for the purists, it helps that Lee Rocker has a signature model Kolstein Busetto. 😎

[Paul S]

Just a thought - Mrs S and I went to the 'Country 2 Country' festivals, held at the O2, for a few years on the trot - the last one we went every night.  Saw an awful lot of country/Americana bands - modern, old school.  Acts such as Garth Brookes, Reba McEntire, Jason Aldean, Zac Brown Band, so top US artists in the country scene over there.  If my memory serves the only band who used a DB was The Mavericks, all the others the bass players used electrics.  What I would bring home from that is, yes, get a double bass if you want one but it really isn't necessary.

[JPJ]

3 hours ago, Paul S said:

Just a thought - Mrs S and I went to the 'Country 2 Country' festivals, held at the O2, for a few years on the trot - the last one we went every night.  Saw an awful lot of country/Americana bands - modern, old school.  Acts such as Garth Brookes, Reba McEntire, Jason Aldean, Zac Brown Band, so top US artists in the country scene over there.  If my memory serves the only band who used a DB was The Mavericks, all the others the bass players used electrics.  What I would bring home from that is, yes, get a double bass if you want one but it really isn't necessary.

Paul,

 

Mrs JPJ and I have been to a few of those Country to Country gigs up in Glasgow and you're right, not much double bass action. I'd put this down to the difficulties of travelling transatlantic with a double bass. Having said that, it's also where I first became aware of the Eminence EUB. 

All things considered, I think the double bass is calling to me. The country/Americana band had our debut gig yesterday up in the wilds of Northumberland and I received more comments/compliments on my fretless P bass than I have on any other gig/bass. So I'm not in a desperate rush and will just see what pops up on here and elsewhere in the coming months. 

 

[ezbass]

1 hour ago, JPJ said:

All things considered, I think the double bass is calling to me.

A decision seems to have been reached, well done, that man.

 

1 hour ago, JPJ said:

So I'm not in a desperate rush

Cue desperate scouring of every musical instrument outlet for the right DB, situated within reasonable reach of the North East. 
 

I was like that for ages, nothing. Moved to the other end of the country and suddenly suitable instruments became available close to my old home. The universe hates my bass dreams.  

[Marty Forrer]

I've played acoustic upright for 32 years, still got the one I started with. In that time I've bought and sold several EUBs (including an Eminence) and was always dissatisfied with them. They just never sound right. I spent a small fortune on strings trying to improve them, to no avail, so I have given up and now stick with the real thing. Feedback? What feedback? I use a Krivo magnetic pickup and can hold my bass right in front of my amp without feedback. I have tried many types and brands of piezo pickups over the years (Shadow, Fishman, Barbera, Underwood, Bassmax, Zac Victor) and while the Zac is the best sounding, none sound as good as the Krivo, no matter what genre I'm playing. If it matters I play a German solid top with Eurosonics and no preamp. Just my experience, hope it helps.

 

Edited January 24, 2023 by Marty Forrer

[JPJ]

On 23/01/2023 at 13:59, ezbass said:

 

Cue desperate scouring of every musical instrument outlet for the right DB, situated within reasonable reach of the North East. 
 

Despite all of the advice to the contrary, guess who is going to look at a very nice NXT that is available locally this weekend 🙄😂

[petebassist]

1 hour ago, JPJ said:

Despite all of the advice to the contrary, guess who is going to look at a very nice NXT that is available locally this weekend 🙄😂

Sometimes you have to forge your own path mate, if you're gonna double on EB and EUB/DB, an NS would have many advantages. Biggest pain for me is having to drive a DB to a gig with usual parking/load in & out issues being the worst. I once played a gig walking distance from my house and wheeled the DB round on a sack-trolley, but usually it's a car job. 

[JPJ]

So after much soul searching and rumination, I’m back in the world of the EUB. A double bass was just not going to work due to space constraints and having researched extensively, I’ve settled on a lovely four string NS Design NXT advertised locally too me that’s been in the hands of a double bassist so the setup is perfect. The stand is working as expected for my dodgy thumb, and surprisingly the end pin also works because of the clever frame. Next challenge is to master arco, but that will lead me down the rabbit hole of bow selection, grip etc. First challenge - build up my chops to gig level. 

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by JPJ

[JPJ]

So first rehearsal with the EUB tonight and the band loved it. Going to take a while to build up my hand/finger strength but I’m very happy with how this sat in the mix. Used it with and without a Nino mute, which was great for the more upbeat walking lines. Got to say the EBS Stanley Clarke is a bit of a revelation too; both the NS & my Fender fretless precision sounded huge through it with very little eq on either channel. 😎

[JPJ]

So second rehearsal and the NXT just fits the music so well, so much so I’m playing her on a lot more of the set than I originally thought. Just about got the Stanley Clarke dialled in too and I’ve got to say I’m getting a pretty convincing double bass tone out of the NXT and the secret is definitely all in the fingers. If you play like a double bassist the NXT sounds like a double bass, whereas if you play like an electric bassist the NXT sounds like a fretless bass, albeit an extended range one. Oh and no thumb issues either, which confirms that the stand is the answer to my old problem. 

[JPJ]

So tonight was the night, 20’ish song set, nine on EUB. First doubling gig in a few years and it passed off without issue. Left hand was very tired towards the end of the second set (EUB heavy) not helped by our leader starting a medium paced blues tune (Ma Rainey anyone?) in quadruple time 😂

The NS was very well received and got almost as many compliments as the fretless. Quote of the night “Don’t guitars usually have lines on them so you know where to play? Yes, but I couldn’t afford the lines so I had to get one without” 😂

Oh and here’s a picture of bass corner (don’t worry the Heineken zero moved off the amp straight after the photo 😉

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by JPJ

[NickA]

Takes up a lot less space on the stage than my 4/4 double bass.

 

Heineken Zero though? 😬

[JPJ]

3 hours ago, NickA said:

Heineken Zero though? 😬

Gig was out in the wilds of Northumberland on a rainy foggy night and I was driving 😉

[JPJ]

So I’ll just keep adding comments here to document my experiences with the NS NXT. 

 

When I purchased my NXT it came from a classical player, and had what you might call a reasonably high action (11mm on the E at the fingerboard end). I struggled on with this convincing myself I just needed to up my left hand strength, but last weekend, and after much internet research I decided I needed to lower the action. I’ve taken it down quite a bit (7mm on the E at fingerboard end) and it’s a revelation. The string tension at the higher setting made the NXT very ‘trebly’ and almost microphonic (hand noise very prominent in the mix), but lowering the action has cured this, and made the NXT so much more ‘fun’ to play without impacting on the sound. 

[ezbass]

2 hours ago, JPJ said:

So I’ll just keep adding comments here to document my experiences with the NS NXT. 

 

When I purchased my NXT it came from a classical player, and had what you might call a reasonably high action (11mm on the E at the fingerboard end). I struggled on with this convincing myself I just needed to up my left hand strength, but last weekend, and after much internet research I decided I needed to lower the action. I’ve taken it down quite a bit (7mm on the E at fingerboard end) and it’s a revelation. The string tension at the higher setting made the NXT very ‘trebly’ and almost microphonic (hand noise very prominent in the mix), but lowering the action has cured this, and made the NXT so much more ‘fun’ to play without impacting on the sound. 

Wow! I must be super wimpy as my WAV is down at around 4-5mm at the board end. However, I notice that I have a bigger gap around the 12th position, obviously due to the relief, so I don't feel too weak and feeble (I really do ).