Scott Devine reviews Rickenbacker

[Richard R]

Fair enough- if the teacher isn't teaching you what you want to play then there is absolutely no point in carrying on with that teacher.

[Newfoundfreedom]

27 minutes ago, Richard R said:

Fair enough- if the teacher isn't teaching you what you want to play then there is absolutely no point in carrying on with that teacher.

 

Yup. There's no black and white, right or wrong. Whatever gets you where you want to be is superb. I think bass players are generally much more diverse and laid back than a lot of other instrumentalists. Maybe it comes with the job title. 

[SteveXFR]

I agree but that diversity is missing from Scotts bass lessons. There's little if anything to cover anything but the most mainstream styles plus jazz. There's no punk, metal, reggae, hip hop or other less mainstream styles. 

[Ricky 4000]

5 hours ago, msb said:

I immediately got used to the cover on my 4000.

 

I took mine off around 30 years ago and immediately lost it. 😖

[fleabag]

Spookily, it's not Devine that was annoying. It was the other guy fizzing in his jeans whenever he spoke

[mario_buoninfante]

I agree and disagree at the same time about the diversity thing.
Yes, the genres mentioned above are not really there, if not in the form of seminars, workshops or interviews.
It is mainly jazz, blues, R&B and funk, but I think that (without wanting to justify anyone) there is a reason behind that, and it's because from an educational point of view these genres can be considered as the foundation.
They are the starting point for so many genres and sub-genres such as rock, soul, neo-soul, etc.
Again, it is kind of biased I agree, but it is because it's a school after all, and like with other schools a lot of effort is put in the basics (ie Picasso's training allowed him to draw like Rafael, and only after he started breaking the rules and coming up with something totally new).

Edited January 29, 2023 by mario_buoninfante

[Newfoundfreedom]

9 minutes ago, mario_buoninfante said:

I agree and disagree at the same time about the diversity thing.
Yes, the genres mentioned above are not really there, if not in the form of seminars, workshops or interviews.
It is mainly jazz, blues, R&B and funk, but I think that (without wanting to justify anything) there is a reason behind that, and it's because from an educational point of view these genres can be considered as the foundation.
They are the starting point for so many genres and sub-genres such as rock, soul, neo-soul, etc.
Again, it is kind of biased I agree, but it is because it's a school after all, and like with other schools a lot of effort is put in the basics (ie Picasso's training allowed him to draw like Rafael, and only after he started breaking the rules and coming up with something totally new).

 

I suppose it very much depends on your perspective and musical tastes. Jazz, R&B and funk mean nothing to me. All my musical tastes and influences come from rock, punk, metal, and blues. To me jazz is just a load of random notes with absolutely no musicality. It just sounds like roadworks. That doesn't mean I'm right. It's all just a matter of opinion and perspective. At the end of the day, I like what I like. Simple as that. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by Newfoundfreedom

[Dad3353]

13 hours ago, Newfoundfreedom said:

I suppose it depends on your perspective and musical tastes. Jazz, R&B and funk mean nothing to me. All my musical tastes and influences come from rock, metal, and blues. To me jazz is just a load of random notes with absolutely no musicality. It sounds like roadworks. 

 

We can draw parallels with other arts or occupations. Some folk don't see food as anything more than a sandwich or bowl of rice; others will concoct sophisticated dishes. Some read only tabloids, comics or photo-romance magazines, others enjoy Shakespeare or James Joyce. It's rare, I think, to perceive the qualities, or interest, in the extreme ends of these spectrums, and even more rare that the journey from one end to the other is undertaken. Most of the time, though, it's a journey from the 'bottom' towards the 'top'; one doesn't start with Shakespeare and move on to Marvel stuff. Once one has a 'handle' on Blues, it can lead to much, much more. I doubt that many contemporary composers would spend much of their life on it, though, as they are, mostly, beyond that schema.
None of this is 'bad', nor 'good', but learning to play bass for the blues can be done in a few lessons. Going further requires work, and that can only happen with motivation. Without that, one stays with the more easily-obtained genres. There's so much more, but without the curiosity, patience and drive to work on it, it won't be recognised. 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Dad3353

[mario_buoninfante]

14 minutes ago, Newfoundfreedom said:

 

I suppose it very much depends on your perspective and musical tastes. Jazz, R&B and funk mean nothing to me. All my musical tastes and influences come from rock, punk, metal, and blues. To me jazz is just a load of random notes with absolutely no musicality. It just sounds like roadworks. That doesn't mean I'm right. It's all just a matter of opinion and perspective. At the end of the day, I like what I like. Simple as that. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I see where you are coming from and I totally respect your opinion, but what I'm saying doesn't have anything to do with tastes.
What I meant is that studying these genres is the equivalent of studying grammar at school. That said, like with other things in life, you can happily live and be a successful musician without ever touching them.
I was just trying to say this is why these genres are there as courses and others are not.
Tons of musicians have studied them but neither like them nor play them, it was simply part of the learning journey.
Again though, it's not mandatory.

Edited January 29, 2023 by mario_buoninfante

[Newfoundfreedom]

20 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

 

We can draw parallels with other arts or occupations. Some folk don't see food as anything more than a sandwich or bowl of rice; others will concoct sophisticated dishes. Some read only tabloids, comics or phot-romance magazines, others enjoy Shakespeare or James Joyce. It's rare, I think, to perceive the qualities, or interest, in the extreme ends of these spectrums, and even more rare that the journey from one end to the other is undertaken. Most of the time, though, it's a journey from the 'bottom' towards the 'top'; one doesn't start with Shakespeare and move on to Marvel stuff. Once one has a 'handle' on Blues, it can lead to much, much more. I doubt that many contemporary composers would spend much of their life on it, though, as they are, mostly, beyond that schema.
None of this is 'bad', nor 'good', but learning to play bass for the blues can be done in a few lessons. Going further requires work, and that can only happen with motivation. Without that, one stays with the more easily-obtained genres. There's so much more, but without the curiosity, patience and drive to work on it, it won't be recognised. 

 

But that implies a massive amount of musical snobbery. Do you think (for example) jazz is superior to metal? I think it's just a matter of personal taste. 

If that's the case then I'm happy to be Neanderthal. I'll take Cliff Burton over Jaco Pastorius any day. 

Just like I'd be much more at home with a ham sandwich than a bowl of caviar. 

The perception that one is better than the other is absolute nonsense. 

 

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by Newfoundfreedom

[Dad3353]

14 minutes ago, Newfoundfreedom said:

But that implies a massive amount of musical snobbery. Do you think (for example) jazz is superior to metal? I think it's just a matter of personal taste. 

If that's the case then I'm happy to be Neanderthal. I'll take Cliff Burton over Jaco Pastorius any day. 

 

I was careful to try to avoid notions of 'better'; there's no snobbery involved but in one's head. Thousands of folk go through Life reading nothing more substantial than Batman comics; others know nothing of Gotham City, but find a suitable quote from Jonathan Swift for any occasion. All I'm suggesting is that, to appreciate Swift takes some work, or intellectual effort, more than the Marvel tales. There is much literature well beyond Swift, too, to be mined by those minded. There's no judgement, but as some would find a diet of plain rice jading, so a diet of hip-hop would not satisfy. The basics of rap need little (not none, but little...) formal education; to delve into Mozart implies tutoring, starting with simpler stuff. How many have bee introduced to orchestral works from music lessons at school with 'A Young Person's Guide to the Orchestra' or the 'Carnival of Animals' as support..? These are gateways, passages through which one may glimpse (or not...) a rich treasure trove. 

Edited January 29, 2023 by Dad3353

[Newfoundfreedom]

5 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

 

I was careful to try to avoid notions of 'better'; there's no snobbery involved but in one's head. Thousands of folk go through Life reading nothing more substantial than Batman comics; others know nothing of Gotham City, but find a suitable quote from Jonathan Swift for any occasion. All I'm suggesting is that, to appreciate Swift takes some work, or intellectual effort, more than the Marvel tales. There is much literature well beyond Swift, too, to be mined by those minded. There's no judgement, but as some would find a diet of plain rice jading, so a diet of hip-hop would not satisfy. The basics of rap need little (not none, but little...) formal education; to delve into Mozart implies tutoring, starting with simpler stuff. How many have bee introduced to orchestral works from music lessons at school with 'A Young Person's Guide to the Orchestra' or the 'Carnival of Animals' as support..? These are gateways, passages through which one may glimpse (or not...) a rich treasure trove. 

 

Erm........ I've had far too many glasses of red wine to argue. 

 

Ergo. I agree. (I think) 

[Dad3353]

[msb]

I’ve never subscribed to Scott’s bass lessons , but I do appreciate what he’s trying to teach and the way he breaks it down. And he stresses , this is the chord , and these are the notes to play over it , and around it.

And I gotta say he’s built up a pretty good business.
I celebrate that. 
He’s responsible for a lot of players learning what to play. And it seems the more you play , the more there is to learn.

[Ricky 4000]

This is all very deep...

[fleabag]

I'm a qualified  Psychologist,  Rickster.

 

If you need my help,  i can make you much worse.

[SteveXFR]

Playing an instrument is something you do for enjoyment. If lessons are six months of playing styles you have no interest in you'll soon get bored and give up. You can learn those basic skills from any genre so why stick to just a few?

There's punk and ska songs full of arpeggios, tricky rhythms in all forms of rock. Chord tones in metal. Iron Maiden just has everything. Sabbath is just blues tuned down and distorted.

[mario_buoninfante]

1 hour ago, SteveXFR said:

Playing an instrument is something you do for enjoyment. If lessons are six months of playing styles you have no interest in you'll soon get bored and give up. You can learn those basic skills from any genre so why stick to just a few?

There's punk and ska songs full of arpeggios, tricky rhythms in all forms of rock. Chord tones in metal. Iron Maiden just has everything. Sabbath is just blues tuned down and distorted.

 

For some people playing an instrument is their job, and like with every job, some training might be necessary, one likes it or not.

There are things that it's easier to learn when you go at the source, and jazz is the source in a lot of cases. Ska comes from there.

It's like studying Latin, you might find it redundant, and for a lot of people it is, but for those interested in studying languages and linguistic is really useful.

 

[SteveXFR]

1 hour ago, mario_buoninfante said:

 

For some people playing an instrument is their job, and like with every job, some training might be necessary, one likes it or not.

There are things that it's easier to learn when you go at the source, and jazz is the source in a lot of cases. Ska comes from there.

It's like studying Latin, you might find it redundant, and for a lot of people it is, but for those interested in studying languages and linguistic is really useful.

 

 

Anyone starting out in learning an instrument is doing it for enjoyment. If you're already a professional musician then you need 1 to 1 tuition not Scott's Bass Lessons which is aimed purely at amateur musicians. 

The biggest drawback of online learning is there's no one to point out when you've got the details wrong or answer questions and those are the sort of thing you need at a higher level but it doesn't matter to the amateur as much.

[mario_buoninfante]

16 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

 

Anyone starting out in learning an instrument is doing it for enjoyment. If you're already a professional musician then you need 1 to 1 tuition not Scott's Bass Lessons which is aimed purely at amateur musicians. 

The biggest drawback of online learning is there's no one to point out when you've got the details wrong or answer questions and those are the sort of thing you need at a higher level but it doesn't matter to the amateur as much.

This doesn't really have anything to do with the topic I was addressing: "why there's mainly jazz, blues and funk on SBL".
You could be studying on SBL (or anywhere else) even after 10y playing the bass. Actually that's the case for a lot of people afaik.
Then, the "online vs in-person" thing is a totally different matter. I would generally prefer the in-person experience as well, but that's not always possible.
Also, there are situations where the "student" is mature enough to be able to learn online without needing anybody to check on them (ie the 10y experience thing mentioned above).

[mario_buoninfante]

6 minutes ago, mario_buoninfante said:

Anyone starting out in learning an instrument is doing it for enjoyment.

 

Also, this is generalising quite a lot. I met a lot of people from my area that started playing trumpet, trombone, tuba, etc. just to find job in marching bands, that is still a big deal in a lot of places in Italy. They ended up liking music, but their driving factor was finding a job.


 

6 minutes ago, mario_buoninfante said:

...Scott's Bass Lessons which is aimed purely at amateur musicians

Why would it be just aimed at amateurs?

Edited January 30, 2023 by mario_buoninfante

[mario_buoninfante]

I personally don't know neither the guy nor his band, but it looks like he does that for living
 

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by mario_buoninfante

[SteveXFR]

27 minutes ago, mario_buoninfante said:

This doesn't really have anything to do with the topic I was addressing: "why there's mainly jazz, blues and funk on SBL".
You could be studying on SBL (or anywhere else) even after 10y playing the bass. Actually that's the case for a lot of people afaik.
Then, the "online vs in-person" thing is a totally different matter. I would generally prefer the in-person experience as well, but that's not always possible.
Also, there are situations where the "student" is mature enough to be able to learn online without needing anybody to check on them (ie the 10y experience thing mentioned above).

 

That still doesn't explain why everything but blues jazz and soul should be ignored. Why ignore anything else just because their roots go back to these styles? 

I found it extremely difficult going from SBL lessons in blues and soul to playing something like Slayer which requires a very different style of playing. There was nothing that prepared me for the speed of punk and the super fast fills in it. 

I'm not saying don't teach those fundamental styles, just offer a bit of something else as well to keep it interesting. I gave up with SBL because it was boring and didn't prepare me for what I wanted to play. 

[mario_buoninfante]

29 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

Why ignore anything else just because their roots go back to these styles? 

I suppose, and I might be totally wrong, because Jazz and Blues are well decoded genres with their rules and structures (to be bent as well) and that makes them good for teaching.
I would like to see more courses about other genres, but I suspect that they would be mainly about learning songs rather than studying the theory behind them. Something that is quite valid, don't get me wrong, but I struggle to imagine a 12-20 lessons course on these genres that isn't mainly about learning songs.

 

 

29 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

There was nothing that prepared me for the speed of punk and the super fast fills in it. 

Don't wanna be that guy, but I'm pretty sure that jazz would prepare you quite well for that

Edited January 30, 2023 by mario_buoninfante

[tauzero]

20 hours ago, Maude said:

Aaah ha ha ha, you've got to love RIC. 

Probably the single most annoying thing on a 4003, and generally gets removed the quickest, is the pickup cover. So they just go f*** it, we'll put two on. 

Why not just put a complete sleeve from bridge to neck and tell you're not allowed to play it? 😄

 

Surely it should have been a Limiting Addition, not a Limited Addition.