Agreeing song/set lists

[Waddycall]

Always seems to be an issue. Had a rehearsal with a newly formed band yesterday. We each chucked in 2 songs plus a few others. Learnt all of them note for note and spent time making sure my effects set up was spot on for all. Turns out the singer decided against doing two the guitarist chose and the guitarist chose not to do the singers choices so I learnt four songs note for note that  I didn’t need to and some were quite tricky.

anyway it actually went really well. We play well together and can all hold our own. 

Bit of excitement on the group chat today with lots and lots of suggestions coming in for new songs to do (some of which i really dislike). I’ve had enough over the last 30 years of learning songs never to play them and I’m concerned I’m going be wasting a lot of time with this lot doing just that. I suggested we chuck in suggestions for a few days then meet up for a pint or on zoom to discuss and thin it down to a reasonable number that seem doable and work well together.

for those in bands how do you do this? Seems my suggestion hasn’t gone down too well but just seems like a good way forwards.

[TheGreek]

For this reason alone I believe bands should do original music. 

Everyone has an input and a vested interest in making the song work. 

 

Sorry,  that probably didn't help. 

[Dubs]

It's par for the course. Sometimes you don't know how a song will come together until you get in the room. I've learnt all sorts over the years that never made it out of a rehearsal room, but if it's just personal preference on dropping stuff then people need to speak up when the suggestions are going around to save time. Or take it as a learning process - learning a new song will never make you a worse player. 

[martin8708]

Been through this numerous times , especially with the current band .

We all agree to learn song X and Y for next week , and when I arrive at the next rehearsal the singer and guitarist ( who are an item ) throw song A and B at me . 
I now just learn the basic song structure , if the song stays with the band , I will invest more time in it .

[Acebassmusic]

14 minutes ago, Waddycall said:

Turns out the singer decided against doing two the guitarist chose and the guitarist chose not to do the singers choices so I learnt four songs note for note that  I didn’t need to and some were quite tricky.

 

Did you ask them why they chose not to learn them? I know it can feel awkward asking questions like this when you're just putting a band together but I've found through experience it's worth it as the answers can give a bit of an insight as to how others "work". There can be good reasons for not doing a song but to decide to not even try AND to not let anyone else know so that they aren't working on them is just ignorant in my view 😠

 

One of my bands is newly formed and we'll be having the 3rd rehearsal tomorrow night. All members can play / sing and are basically nice people so theres a lot of positives already.......but.....from previous get togethers (including my audition) I have been the best prepared with others not knowing their parts / words etc. It grinds my gears when others decide to waste not just my time but that of everyone else in the band who has prepared. Lets see how tomorrow goes.......

 

[Jonesy]

We put it down to a vote for adding new tunes into the set. There's 5 of us in the band, we each put 5 suggestions into the hat and everyone gets 5 votes on what to add in (you can't vote for your own songs). The tunes with the most votes get worked on. There's normally a bit of a preamble before hand on the sort of song we want in the set....eg - slow/fast one, something to shake your money maker to etc, so that generally informs what sort of song gets added to the list 

[Lozz196]

I think in this situation I would listen to which songs had been agreed upon them ask.

 

OK, now which of the songs we’ve all just agreed on do I not need to put the time & effort in on as some/all of you will not bother to do the same.

 

Might be confrontational but sometimes it’s necessary to fosters people off in order for them to listen.

[Kitsto]

There have been a lot of useful discussions here on band dynamics and leadership. My own experience is that the setlist will generally be determined by the singer and guitarist (what one can actually sing and what the other is prepared to play). Drummers seem to be ignored on the basis that they aren't interested in melody, just banging things at different tempos (tempi?); and the bass player tends to be ignored full stop. I think we bass players tend to be fastidious about learning our parts. But in truth the others tend not to notice. I think I'd be inclined to rock up to rehearsals ready play root notes to any song recently 'suggested' and only get serious when it looks like a cert for the setlist. If challenged I'd say: 'No point in me learning the exact part unless I know for sure the rest of you want to play it.' Maybe a bit passive/aggressive. But it's amazing how many front people (vcls, gtr) are time wasters and feel they have the right to be at everyone else's expense (and no, I'm not bitter!). As for bass players making suggestions for the setlist that get accepted - don't get me started!

Edited January 31, 2023 by Kitsto

[la bam]

11 hours ago, martin8708 said:

 

I now just learn the basic song structure , if the song stays with the band , I will invest more time in it .

 

This is pretty much what I do in the covers band. Basic structure, then improve everytime we play it. I've been down the route of spending all my spare time learning songs for them suddenly to be dropped for no reason or never mentioned again.

[police squad]

can be a difficult one this. I'm in an 80s duo and we generally agree songs we both like, As a singer, it's harder to sing a song I don't like, as it's difficult to get behind it, but I do try. Sometims I even end up liking it.

We made this duo a band but the drummer and bass player had zero input at this point. (we knew what songs worked witht the audience) They are very professional and I am honoured to play with them actually.

But any new material is now a band decision.

 

It's been a long time since I've done a band from scratch, so picking a set list hasn't been done for a long time.

 

People need to be flexible and if they're not, I would walk away these days, I'm 54 and don't need premadonnas now

[Franticsmurf]

About a year ago I started with a new band consisting of friends I'd played with before. We had come together with the initial idea of taking Abba songs and rocking them up a bit - but this quickly morphed into a general 70's and 80's funk thing. As we were all of the same general thinking we got together one evening, went through a load of song suggestions and ended up individually listing our top 30. The set list was made up of songs that got three votes, plus a few that got two. There was flexibility within the list but as we had already agreed on a general direction, very little disagreement. It was a good set and more importantly, as we had all had a say, there was no one in the band thinking 'I don't want to play that' or 'I've been left out'. 

 

For our first gig we had to borrow a singer and although she was already singing similar material to us, she brought a few songs with her. There was compromise as her stuff was more modern than the 70s & 80s stuff we were doing, but it was no bad thing and opened us up to new ideas. We retained the original idea of rocking up funk, but now applied it to more modern material. 

 

In my experience, a combination of similar directions, flexibility and the willingness to listen and consider new ideas is the key to getting the set list right. I have found that with this approach, there are not too many wasted practices. Personally, I find it hard to motivate myself to practice without some goal so learning new songs works for me, even if we ultimately don't play them. With the specific example above I had to learn to play funk and disco style and that has opened up a whole new genre to me that I might have missed otherwise.

 

 

[neepheid]

My covers band is quite easy going and willing to give most things a go.  We have individual veto powers but we rarely use them.  We listen to suggested songs together when they're suggested to work out if they'd be worth doing before we even begin to learn them.  Sometimes we learn a song but for whatever reason we (collectively) decide it sounds a bit naff when we play it and bin it.  As a trio plus vocals (ie. only one guitar) sometimes that happens - can't distill the multiple guitars down in an acceptable way.  We thought we'd give "Paint it Black" a go but it just sounds plain and boring without the sitar.  Etc.

 

FWIW I play songs I don't necessarily like or enjoy because - bigger picture - I know punters will like it.  It's not just about me.

 

Most of my suggestions have made it to the set list.  The ones that didn't were mostly rejected before we even went to the bother of learning them.  I'm happy with how things work.

Edited January 31, 2023 by neepheid

[Bassfinger]

My mob are pretty sensible. We talk it through, check that any given song isn't going to cause issues for any of the musicians or singist, and in it goes.  If the audience are lukewarm to it then it comes off the list.  Nothing goes on the list simply because one of us likes it, and there are no set list changes once we're within 1 week of a gig.  It's all pretty grown up and not at all fraught.

 

If we agreed some songs as a collective and then someone didn't learn them for whatever reason I think the rest of us would be pretty offended and they'd likely be out the door. Fortunately, once the decision has been made we all go at it seriously.

[neepheid]

.

Edited January 31, 2023 by neepheid

[Paul S]

With my blues rock trio we agree on a new song and usually keep the bones of it but, generally, it evolves during rehearsal into something slightly different.  I guess that is what blues rock trios have always done.  Sometimes one of us will veto a suggestion in which case it generally doesn't make it as far as rehearsal.  But all three of us love the genre and there is such a massive back catalogue of material to choose from it is never an issue to discard the odd suggestion along the way.

[ezbass]

I've learnt plenty of songs for various bands that never saw a gig or only made it into the wild once. Sometimes things don't work. I've even learnt entire set lists for one off, dep gigs and never played the songs again. Yes, it can be irritating, but it's focussed practise that only serves to make you a better player. I have a gig with a new band coming up and I've learnt all the songs they sent me. Turns out that we didn't have enough songs for the initial gig and some numbers have been thrown in for padding, two of which will not be played by this band again as they are off genre (harrumph!). Add to that these two songs are by a band I have little or no interest in. Nonetheless, it has been good practising them as it has sharpened my ears and reminded me that online TABs are often wrong and really wrong.

[steantval]

The starting point for any new cover song suggestion, is can the vocalist manage it, is it comfortably within their vocal range, does it require a key change that still works with the song.

 

You can have the best musicians in a band, but if the vocalist is struggling (murdering a song), the band will always sound poor.

[Paul S]

A guitarist I was in a band with for a few years told of a time when his function band decided to learn 'Goodbye to Love' by the Carpenters.  This has one of the all time classic guitar solos in it and, to my ears, sounds a bit tricky   He spent weeks getting it note perfect, and he would have done a damned fine job of it as well.  Once it was under his belt and he was keen to play he mentioned it at rehearsal, asking when they were going to give it a run though.  'Oh, didn't we say?  We decided not to do it'.  

[gjones]

In one of my bands the singer (who's band it is) says learn this song for our next gig......and we then play it at the gig.

 

In my other band we faff around for ages figuring stuff out and then never play it again.

[Lozz196]

In an old punk covers band we would decide on a song then give it a go. After two times through it we would know if we would be able to proceed with it or not, some songs just didn’t work.

[DTB]

This is always what’s killed it for me with just a couple of exceptions over the years. 
The last band I was in was with a well known drummer and very professional guitarist and they would not have tolerated the behaviour the op describes. The songs were decided at a meeting, you were expected to know them at the next rehearsal within a few days. We had three rehearsals before we started the gigs. 
I was involved with another similarly run outfit at the same time. 
It just comes down to if the

music or personalities come first. 
For us it was the music and we all put the work in to learn the agreed songs on time, and that made it enjoyable and good fun, but the music always came before everything else. 

[Dr.Dave]

Start big - slow stuff 4 songs in - novelty after that - filler -   end big.

 

 Basically I write the set list slightly wrong , ask everyone else for comments , ignore those comments but rewrite the set list as I wanted it in the first place - tell everyone it's now much better for their input and accept their grateful thanks.  

 

 

[nilorius]

15 hours ago, Waddycall said:

Always seems to be an issue. Had a rehearsal with a newly formed band yesterday. We each chucked in 2 songs plus a few others. Learnt all of them note for note and spent time making sure my effects set up was spot on for all. Turns out the singer decided against doing two the guitarist chose and the guitarist chose not to do the singers choices so I learnt four songs note for note that  I didn’t need to and some were quite tricky.

anyway it actually went really well. We play well together and can all hold our own. 

Bit of excitement on the group chat today with lots and lots of suggestions coming in for new songs to do (some of which i really dislike). I’ve had enough over the last 30 years of learning songs never to play them and I’m concerned I’m going be wasting a lot of time with this lot doing just that. I suggested we chuck in suggestions for a few days then meet up for a pint or on zoom to discuss and thin it down to a reasonable number that seem doable and work well together.

for those in bands how do you do this? Seems my suggestion hasn’t gone down too well but just seems like a good way forwards.

In my way, i have played and play a lot of "not call them bands", because it's like money band where sometimes bass and drum is needed and there are huge of songs. I have played them a lot of times, but don't remember fully, so i got a lot of paper, writen down the set of each song genre, time, chords and unison notes. As to the band where we play own songs, there is a BL - vocal who always pulls the thriger and there are are no questions from others anymore.

[Jonesy]

Starting off with a simplified version of the song is definitely good advice as you don't know if a song will work until you give it a go. I then start to pad it out if it's a song that sticks around and I haven't 'wasted' time learning the intricacies of a song I'll never play. 

Fully agree with @Lozz196's advice about highlighting it with the rest of the band too. It takes the mick if this is a persistent thing and you spend loads of time on something only for people to write it off without any prior discussion.

[Muzz]

I've never veto'd a song in my life, and similarly, I've never insisted on a song. I'm a bassist, for crying out loud...I've suggested plenty, but I'm never miffed if they don't fly with the rest of the band. I'll generally go along with the overall vibe, and I completely understand that the singist has more right than anyone to object to a tune; they are the primary seller of the song to the audience, and if they aren't feeling it, it won't come over well, no matter how great the actual music.

Edited January 31, 2023 by Muzz