Music is a competition

[Nail Soup]

18 hours ago, StickyDBRmf said:

Our band had a competition where whoever made it to the end of the song first, wins.

 

In my bands it’s who plays the last note is the best.

[msb]

The top ten mindset reminds me of the uneatable pursued by the unspeakable.

[Barking Spiders]

On 31/01/2023 at 15:17, MacDaddy said:

As not to derail another thread, I'm putting forth the notion that music is a competition.

Or rather music that is commercially released, is competitive, and it is the results of this which feed your Spotify and YouTube algorithms. 

If music was not competitive we would not have The Hit Parade. 

Thoughts?

 

 

Guitar/bass shredding's definitely a competition. I mean there's no musicality, nowt you can whistle, no song structure, no feeling, no soul, nothing that bears any resemblance to music as most peeps understand it etc so by default competitiveness is all that's left. I rest my case m'lud.

[Nail Soup]

Music is absolutely, definitely, categorically not a competition. Anyone who thinks so is not a real musician.

Anyway, can't chat here all day, need to work on my entry for this months Basschat composition competition.

 

[Dad3353]

4 minutes ago, Nail Soup said:

Music is absolutely, definitely, categorically not a competition. Anyone who thinks so is not a real musician.

Anyway, can't chat here all day, need to work on my entry for this months Basschat composition competition challenge.

 

 

Fixed. 

[Lfalex v1.1]

On 31/01/2023 at 16:00, Bassassin said:

I'd argue that what you're talking about is marketing rather than music itself, and the effect marketing has upon the creation of new music.

 

Obviously a lot of music is created specifically to be marketed, and there are clear formulae for creating a successfully marketable product in those areas. Successful artists will be under various pressures to create new music that repeats & builds upon previous success, regardless of how artistically motivated they may have originally been.

 

I'd suspect (although this is purely speculative!) that most people who get into playing and creating music aren't too motivated by the commercial success (or otherwise) of what inspired them to pick up an instrument.

 

With the notable exception of so-called "Christmas Songs"

[Dad3353]

1 minute ago, Lfalex v1.1 said:

With the notable exception of so-called "Christmas Songs"

 

What have they got to do with Music..? 

[lurksalot]

1 hour ago, Nail Soup said:

Music is absolutely, definitely, categorically not a competition. Anyone who thinks so is not a real musician.

Anyway, can't chat here all day, need to work on my entry for this months Basschat composition competition.

 

Drat, Beat me to it , you won that one 😁

[mario_buoninfante]

I think music is art.

And as such, there might be some competitive aspects, but I wouldn't say it's a competition (eg car races).

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by mario_buoninfante

[chris_b]

Music and being a musician is definitely competitive.

 

What's an audition but a competition. Look at the competitive atmosphere in every department and at every level in Motown. The competitive environment for the song writers in the Brill Building. The record charts. Back in the day, trying to get signed to management and labels. Getting gigs. There is one local gig where they have 200 bands in contact with the promoter vying for 24 gigs for the year. That's competition. Trying to find great players, then trying to keep  them. The guys who make our gear are in competition with each other for our money.

 

There is competition in everything we do as musicians.

[Dad3353]

All very well, and it's The Truth, but it's not necessarily The Whole Truth. There are many aspects of Music, as with Life in general, that escape from the clutches of Competition. Whether that's a Good Thing or not is for individuals to appreciate; for my part, it's those elements that are the best bits. The sheer joy when it all comes together, either playing solo or in any ensemble, there are moments (often no more than moments..!) where one is uplifted, charmed, untouchable, and far above tawdry concerns of competition. OK, if there must be aspects of competition to be taken into account, at least on occasion, it would be a shame, and a waste, to only see the competitive side of things. Some are fine with this, of course, and maybe, for them, vying for the Top Spot is a goal in itself. It's not so for many; Humility can be a virtue, too (or does that compete with Ambition..?). 

[mario_buoninfante]

1 hour ago, chris_b said:

Music and being a musician is definitely competitive.

 

What's an audition but a competition. Look at the competitive atmosphere in every department and at every level in Motown. The competitive environment for the song writers in the Brill Building. The record charts. Back in the day, trying to get signed to management and labels. Getting gigs. There is one local gig where they have 200 bands in contact with the promoter vying for 24 gigs for the year. That's competition. Trying to find great players, then trying to keep  them. The guys who make our gear are in competition with each other for our money.

 

There is competition in everything we do as musicians.

Most likely just semantic, but all the things listed above aren't music.

I agree that being a pro musician has all these competitive aspects though, similar to other jobs.

[ezbass]

6 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

there are moments, where one is uplifted, charmed, untouchable, and far above tawdry concerns of competition.

That’s a lovely sentence, Dad and I agree wholeheartedly.

[tauzero]

Out looking for gigs? Competition - you and many other bands are competing for the chance to gig somewhere.

 

Playing a gig? Competition for at least two reasons - competing with the bands that played last week and will play next week so you'll get more gigs there, and competing with any other attractions that night (including people staying at home to watch Jools Holland).

 

Doing a recording to sell? Competition - people don't have unlimited resources so they've got to decide which CDs or MP3s they want to buy.

 

Doing a recording to send off as a demo? Competition - lots of other bands are too.

[Dad3353]

3 hours ago, tauzero said:

Out looking for gigs? Competition - you and many other bands are competing for the chance to gig somewhere.

 

Playing a gig? Competition for at least two reasons - competing with the bands that played last week and will play next week so you'll get more gigs there, and competing with any other attractions that night (including people staying at home to watch Jools Holland).

 

Doing a recording to sell? Competition - people don't have unlimited resources so they've got to decide which CDs or MP3s they want to buy.

 

Doing a recording to send off as a demo? Competition - lots of other bands are too.

 

Some of us play without any heed for these considerations. OK, maybe atypical, but it's not always about competition. Just sayin'. 

[tauzero]

26 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

 

Some of us play without any heed for these considerations. OK, maybe atypical, but it's not always about competition. Just sayin'. 

 

If there are any other bands who could play the gigs that you do, you have competed with them to get those gigs. You may not view it that way, but it's what's happened.

[SumOne]

A Paul Simon quote:

 

“Simply wanting to make the best music can make you competitive,” he said. “You have no idea how competitive John Lennon was around Paul McCartney. When I first met them, I felt like someone had taken all the oxygen out of the room. I almost couldn’t breathe, they were so competitive, and that’s what made them so great. They wouldn’t settle for just good. That was me, too.”

[Dad3353]

19 minutes ago, tauzero said:

If there are any other bands who could play the gigs that you do, you have competed with them to get those gigs. You may not view it that way, but it's what's happened.

 

I would refute that statement and vision of things. 

[Lozz196]

20 hours ago, tauzero said:

Out looking for gigs? Competition - you and many other bands are competing for the chance to gig somewhere.

 

Playing a gig? Competition for at least two reasons - competing with the bands that played last week and will play next week so you'll get more gigs there, and competing with any other attractions that night (including people staying at home to watch Jools Holland).

 

Doing a recording to sell? Competition - people don't have unlimited resources so they've got to decide which CDs or MP3s they want to buy.

 

Doing a recording to send off as a demo? Competition - lots of other bands are too.

Definitely, can even add in - if an originals band - competing with yourself to write better material on an ongoing basis.

[Crusoe]

On 02/02/2023 at 06:20, Bolo said:

New band name!

I thought it was a Rod Stewart song that the Stereophonics covered.

[mario_buoninfante]

4 hours ago, Lozz196 said:

Definitely, can even add in - if an originals band - competing with yourself to write better material on an ongoing basis.

maybe we can file that under "improving"

[Henrythe8]

Highly philosophical. 

I'd play semantics and say that there are more successful artists than others. Artist that are better sellers than others. Musicians that are more famous than others. 

If we say it's a competition, you need to find a metric to measure performance. 

ANd as an artistic form, music has no clear metric and when you don't pay for music (like all the streams that are counted today are not a commitment froim a fan, like @tauzero mentioned, people buying CDs had a commitment toward an artist. But the people just streaming an artist are not commited. 

The most album sold is a metric, but that doesn't make a better artist, it's just a better fame/distribution/time continuum. 

What contemporary artist is going to sell more recordings than the Beatles (still selling after all these years...) now that music is not sold anymore. 

I'd go further saying that now more than ever, a musician is a marketing product but the music is not what is sold. 

 

I'd play on words saying music is competitive, but not a competition. As even if you loose in a way eg records selling), you can still be a champion in another recognition, musical genius, legendary performer...).  

[mario_buoninfante]

1 hour ago, Henrythe8 said:

Highly philosophical. 

I'd play semantics and say that there are more successful artists than others. Artist that are better sellers than others. Musicians that are more famous than others. 

If we say it's a competition, you need to find a metric to measure performance. 

ANd as an artistic form, music has no clear metric and when you don't pay for music (like all the streams that are counted today are not a commitment froim a fan, like @tauzero mentioned, people buying CDs had a commitment toward an artist. But the people just streaming an artist are not commited. 

The most album sold is a metric, but that doesn't make a better artist, it's just a better fame/distribution/time continuum. 

What contemporary artist is going to sell more recordings than the Beatles (still selling after all these years...) now that music is not sold anymore. 

I'd go further saying that now more than ever, a musician is a marketing product but the music is not what is sold. 

 

I'd play on words saying music is competitive, but not a competition. As even if you loose in a way eg records selling), you can still be a champion in another recognition, musical genius, legendary performer...).  

That is a great way to put it! I agree 100%.

Also, semantic is quite important. Words are important, and we shouldn't take the meaning out of them, or just attribute them a meaning they don't actually have.
I think here we've been confusing "music business" with music itself (the art).

 

[tauzero]

6 hours ago, Henrythe8 said:

Highly philosophical. 

I'd play semantics and say that there are more successful artists than others. Artist that are better sellers than others. Musicians that are more famous than others. 

If we say it's a competition, you need to find a metric to measure performance. 

ANd as an artistic form, music has no clear metric and when you don't pay for music (like all the streams that are counted today are not a commitment froim a fan, like @tauzero mentioned, people buying CDs had a commitment toward an artist. But the people just streaming an artist are not commited. 

The most album sold is a metric, but that doesn't make a better artist, it's just a better fame/distribution/time continuum. 

What contemporary artist is going to sell more recordings than the Beatles (still selling after all these years...) now that music is not sold anymore. 

I'd go further saying that now more than ever, a musician is a marketing product but the music is not what is sold. 

 

I'd play on words saying music is competitive, but not a competition. As even if you loose in a way eg records selling), you can still be a champion in another recognition, musical genius, legendary performer...).  

 

I didn't say they'd got a commitment to an artist but that someone buying a CD has to decide which to buy, which isn't quite the same thing. There's no metric, everybody who decides to book you or come to one of your gigs or buy your CD or sign you up to a record label has judged the competition for themselves and decided you are one of the winners.

[bassace]

Heard of ‘cutting’?