Mixing desk vs audio interface

[Al Krow]

If we have a decent mixing desk with USB connectivity, which increasingly many of us have, do we actually need to have a separate audio interface? What's the BC wisdom / consensus on this?

[lidl e]

I mean you certainly dont need a mixing board anymore. 

I guess it depends on what youre going for, but only us older dudes need to "feel knobs"

 

[mario_buoninfante]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

If we have a decent mixing desk with USB connectivity, which increasingly many of us have, do we actually need to have a separate audio interface? What's the BC wisdom / consensus on this?

 

Depends if the mixer has multichannel in/out via USB (ie do you also get multichannel playback from a DAW?).

And if that's a requirement you have

[Jakester]

I ended up with a separate audio interface simply because derigging my setup from my old XR18 each time I had a gig was a PITA. Though my setup is a large, close-mic’d drum kit. If you’re only running one or two things, it would be less of an issue. 
 

Also depends on whether your desk does 1in/1out or just stereo in/out. But if you’re happy setting it up each time you want to record at home, then it makes ample sense to use a suitably capable mixer. 

[Owen]

No. But the mixer might be packed away whereas the interface will be ready to go. 

[Mottlefeeder]

One advantage of a mixer is that you can connect other sources to it, eg an mp3 player, and eq the sound from them. I use the eq to drop out the bass on tracks that I am working on - I could not do that with an interface without first importing the song onto the PC/Mac.

David

[mario_buoninfante]

Some interfaces have eq/comp on their ins/out

[Mottlefeeder]

22 hours ago, mario_buoninfante said:

Some interfaces have eq/comp on their ins/out

Agreed, but with a mixer you can just fade up an additional channel - you don't have to rewire the system to accomodate another music source.

David

[mario_buoninfante]

1 hour ago, Mottlefeeder said:

Agreed, but with a mixer you can just fade up an additional channel - you don't have to rewire the system to accomodate another music source.

David

 

I was just pointing out that some audio interfaces have these capabilities. Personally I love mixers and use them, with an audio interface.
But it's all about the use case. Certain scenarios don't require mixers, others don't require audio interfaces, some need both.

Edited February 2, 2023 by mario_buoninfante

[Mottlefeeder]

21 minutes ago, mario_buoninfante said:

 

I was just pointing out that some audio interfaces have these capabilities...

True - and mine does!

I was not really thinking it through.

David

[Al Krow]

3 hours ago, mario_buoninfante said:

 

I was just pointing out that some audio interfaces have these capabilities. Personally I love mixers and use them, with an audio interface.
But it's all about the use case. Certain scenarios don't require mixers, others don't require audio interfaces, some need both.

 

What scenarios require both? It seems that a decent mixing desk can provide everything that an audio interface typically can? 

[mario_buoninfante]

Just now, Al Krow said:

 

What scenarios require both? It seems that a decent mixing desk can provide everything that an audio interface typically can? 

 

I have bass and other instruments (keyboards/synths, drum machine, fx, etc.) going to the mixer. Aux/bus go to the audio device for multitrack recordings.
Several stereo outs from the audio device go back to the mixer too.
This allows me to mix on the desk both "external instruments" and channels from the DAW.
This way I can also use external fx, eq and other outboards on DAW outs.

 

[Al Krow]

Ah ok. But is that because your mixer does not permit multitrack recording? If so, I can see the benefit. 

If you had something like Soundcraft Signature12 MTK would that dispense of the need for a separate audio interface?

[mario_buoninfante]

34 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Ah ok. But is that because your mixer does not permit multitrack recording? If so, I can see the benefit. 

If you had something like Soundcraft Signature12 MTK would that dispense of the need for a separate audio interface?

 

Exactly. I should have said that, the mixer is fully analogue

[Al Krow]

6 hours ago, mario_buoninfante said:

 

Exactly. I should have said that, the mixer is fully analogue

 

FWIW - I understand the Soundcraft Signature 12MTK is also fully analogue. However, they've added a multi-track recording option to enhance the capability of the unit as compared to the non-MTK version. There's a £110 price-hike for this added capability, but given a latency of 3.5ms vs a latency of around 2ms for a high-end audio interface such as a Focusrite, that's still pretty decent. And I'm not sure there are too many decent audio interfaces offering 12 multi-track recording, certainly for £110?

[mario_buoninfante]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

 

FWIW - I understand the Soundcraft Signature 12MTK is also fully analogue. However, they've added a multi-track recording option to enhance the capability of the unit as compared to the non-MTK version. There's a £110 price-hike for this added capability, but given a latency of 3.5ms vs a latency of around 2ms for a high-end audio interface such as a Focusrite, that's still pretty decent. And I'm not sure there are too many decent audio interfaces offering 12 multi-track recording, certainly for £110?

 

To exceed the 8-10 ch, usually one wants to use analogue + adat. So, an audio interface with an A/D/A converter. Ie Clarett + Octopre

[Jakester]

9 hours ago, Al Krow said:

 

FWIW - I understand the Soundcraft Signature 12MTK is also fully analogue. However, they've added a multi-track recording option to enhance the capability of the unit as compared to the non-MTK version. There's a £110 price-hike for this added capability, but given a latency of 3.5ms vs a latency of around 2ms for a high-end audio interface such as a Focusrite, that's still pretty decent. And I'm not sure there are too many decent audio interfaces offering 12 multi-track recording, certainly for £110?

 

This looks like a decent option: 

 

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1271824040214866/

https://www.presonus.com/products/studiolive-ar16-usb

 

I was looking at Signature 12MTK before I ended up just getting a Scarlett interface and Saffire via ADAT and they looked like great mixers. I had the Signature 10 (which was only stereo USB) and the mixer side of it was great - quiet preamps and really good effects. 

Edited February 3, 2023 by Jakester

[Jakester]

And a good price for an 12MTK here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/492238494192273

[2pods]

I ended up doing something the same.

 

I have a Presonus Quantum 2626 8 in Thunderbolt 3 interface.

It's faster than a fast thing, but has no built in monitoring unless your running a DAW.

I was looking at both the Octopre+, and the Behringer version for expansion via ADAT, but I also wanted something I could leave my gear plugged into and use without the PC being on.

 

None of the expansion preamps had any standalone monitoring either, so I hit on the (expensive) solution of using a 3rd generation Focusrite Scarlett 18i20. It was a bit of a faff, but it works in both situations.

[EBS_freak]

You're right, the prices are coming right down - and Eastern bulk manufacturing and reuse across brands, even more so. It seems like any audio device is almost expected to be able to function as an interface nowadays.

 

However... The next big thing is 32 bit... clipping is a thing of a past now as it can all be recovered. Gone are the days of poor gain staging. Funnily enough, only yesterday, I was looking at the new Zoom 32 bit field recorders... and this -

 

 

Of course, the big separators remain the quality of the preamps. The preamp on an interface, or a dedicated preamp upfront, can be the difference between something sounding thin - or fat and full of harmonic content. Yes, you can manipulate in post - but nothing gets close (and I'm not talking from an arty farty pov here) to a really good preamp. Really good preamps on high channel recording desks will run into multiple of tens of thousands of pounds. However, a unit with one or two pres can be enough for a really top end project studio - although drums may still be a challenge!

 

In answer to your question, I would guess most people could do with whatever interface they can get their hands on, especially if it's just for using in an amateur capacity. If the desk works for you, why would you bother with an equivalent quality interface... assuming that you can be bothered with plugging / unplugging a desk if you are using it elsewhere.

Edited February 17, 2023 by EBS_freak

[Phil Starr]

Hi Russ. @EBS_freak So the $64,000 question is whether there is a difference in practice between the pre's in the sorts of mixers that bands are using live and the ones in the 2in 2out interfaces that most of us start off with?

 

I've been using a very basic Alesis mixer as an interface at home, just for practice, and swapping an interface in for that gives a whopping improvement in sound plus a noticeable drop in latency when recording,

 

I've used the Alesis for rehearsals where we've also used a Yamaha MG series mixer and the Yamaha pre's are just so much better. Swapping my bigger Yamaha MG for my RCF M18 digital mixer has given another very noticeable improvement. I ought to compare the M18 with an interface for myself but the M18 is always packed up for gigs. Subjectively I suspect the M18 and the interface would be comparable in sound quality. There are very definitely big differences in the quality of mic pre's that are clearly audible even to my very worn hearing. We probably don't pay enough attention to that when choosing mixers.

 

So the question, are the pre's in digital mixers like the Behringer and Soundcraft in the same league as the sort of Focusrite Scarlett type interface that most of us use at home?

Edited February 19, 2023 by Phil Starr

[EBS_freak]

I’d defo say that the pres in all these prosumer desks aren’t up to much compared to some of the nicer single low channel count interfaces. Factor in varying qualities of analogue to digital conversion chips and your ears are probably going to pick something up sooner or later.

 

I’d also wager the entry level focusrite interface pres are built to a budget compare to some of those interfaces out there! But then again, as I inferred above, they are probably good enough for most. (Especially when they aren’t being ABed to anything particularly nice by the intended consumer!)