Beedster Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 Hi folks, I want to install a J-Retro into my Enfield. The bass has the 2xQuad PUPs as well as neck LEDs, both circuits powered from the battery in the rear cavity (photo below). While I doubt it's entirely beyond my electrical skills to wire the J-Retro to the existing battery, I'm wondering whether running three discrete circuits from the same battery is going to run it down very quickly and whether I should install the J-Retro as usual with it's own battery in the control cavity? The only downside of the latter is that the magnetic retaining system for the rear cavity in the photo above makes changing batteries tool free, quick and easy whereas changing the battery installed with the J-Retro is a PITA. Thoughts/advice most welcome 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 I don't think it would hurt to run 18v if you do. Personally, with the experience of my SimS system, I don't think you need to add any more pups to the equation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBunny Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 I think Enfield use Glockenklang preamps don't they? I wouldn't expect the J Retro to drain the battery any more than the existing installation does. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted February 4, 2023 Author Share Posted February 4, 2023 6 minutes ago, BassBunny said: I think Enfield use Glockenklang preamps don't they? I wouldn't expect the J Retro to drain the battery any more than the existing installation does. This one came with a passive tone circuit but that’s still a helpful observation thanks 🙏 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted February 4, 2023 Author Share Posted February 4, 2023 3 hours ago, TheGreek said: I don't think it would hurt to run 18v if you do. Personally, with the experience of my SimS system, I don't think you need to add any more pups to the equation. No more PUPs Mick just an active tone circuit, currently passive 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBunny Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 2 hours ago, Beedster said: This one came with a passive tone circuit but that’s still a helpful observation thanks 🙏 In that case, adding the extra drain on the battery is an unknown. Maybe Sims could answer the question. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 I think you would be fine to run the J-Retro off the existing battery. John East would tell you for sure, but I think the drain on the battery is going to be a handful of milliamps and probably a lot less than the LEDs. Even if you have to change the battery twice as frequently as you normally do, it's still a lot easier than changing an extra one in the control cavity. I'd give it a go. If it doesn't work, you can go back and install the one in the control cavity. Assuming there's room for it of course. If you have to rout it out to make more space, definitely try the single battery first. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPJ Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 I’ve been using John’s J-Retro and Unipre preamps for years. The battery life is phenomenal suggesting they draw very little in operation. As far as I’m aware the Sims Quad pickups only need power for the built-in LED indicators and will run quite happily without a battery. That only leaves the neck LEDs of which I have no experience. My guess is you’ll be fine running all three from one 9v battery. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 IIRC the existing preamp in the Enfield is tied into the pickups to keep the relative levels consistent when you swap between "Precision" "Jazz" and "Stingray" coil configurations? You don't really want to be adding any extra electronics to this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 1 hour ago, BigRedX said: IIRC the existing preamp in the Enfield is tied into the pickups to keep the relative levels consistent when you swap between "Precision" "Jazz" and "Stingray" coil configurations? You don't really want to be adding any extra electronics to this. That's very clever! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted February 8, 2023 Author Share Posted February 8, 2023 Many thanks for all the above post folks, apologies for delayed response, I was planning on wiring it in this weekend until I read.... On 07/02/2023 at 11:04, BigRedX said: IIRC the existing preamp in the Enfield is tied into the pickups to keep the relative levels consistent when you swap between "Precision" "Jazz" and "Stingray" coil configurations? You don't really want to be adding any extra electronics to this. ....which is an interesting post, thanks @BigRedX. The tone circuit itself is passive, or certainly appears and responds as if passive (VVT), but I must admit that the electronics in the rear cavity certainly look more complicated than they'd need to be to simply switch on the lights so I assume you're indicating that's a pre-amp albeit preset? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 13 hours ago, Beedster said: ....which is an interesting post, thanks @BigRedX. The tone circuit itself is passive, or certainly appears and responds as if passive (VVT), but I must admit that the electronics in the rear cavity certainly look more complicated than they'd need to be to simply switch on the lights so I assume you're indicating that's a pre-amp albeit preset? The Enfield basses I tried most definitely had the sorts of controls that you would expect on an active bass. After all what is the point of offering a pickup with the Stingray coil configuration and position if you don't also have something that replicates the sound of the Stringray pre-amp. My impression was that the the instrument had been designed to replicate the sounds of the four most common basses (P, J in both passive and active varieties, and the original Stingray) as well as all the additional possibilities given the pickups and their associated electronics. You bass looks much simpler. Since the original electronics for the Enfield basses were designed in conjunction with John East, it's probably worth getting in touch with him to get answers you need. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 5 minutes ago, BigRedX said: The Enfield basses I tried most definitely had the sorts of controls that you would expect on an active bass. After all what is the point of offering a pickup with the Stingray coil configuration and position if you don't also have something that replicates the sound of the Stringray pre-amp. My impression was that the the instrument had been designed to replicate the sounds of the four most common basses (P, J in both passive and active varieties, and the original Stingray) as well as all the additional possibilities given the pickups and their associated electronics. You bass looks much simpler. Since the original electronics for the Enfield basses were designed in conjunction with John East, it's probably worth getting in touch with him to get answers you need. Thanks @BigRedX, that's probably the best bet, I was tempted to install the J-Retro on a suck it and see basis, I think I may see if John has any ideas ahead of doing so 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 Install the J retro in a metal box and put on the floor. Best of both worlds. And then you can use it with other basses as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 (edited) I can give a view on most of your queries, but I'm a bit confused here, @Beedster First of all, which model of Enfield do you have? And do you mean you want to fit the John East preamp with the same spec as fitted in the J-retro products into the existing rear chamber? Or are you planning to use a top-loaded J-retro with its plate and all? I'm assuming you are looking at the former option - which is fairly straightforward. The latter is more difficult and more extreme, with no sonic advantage. John East is very responsive to enquiries and will be able to tell you if that particular pre-amp spec is available as a separate unit to fit in the existing chamber. He will also be able to tell you how big it is from which you can work out if you can fit it, and a second battery*, into the chamber, removing some of the excess wood to make room but leaving of the magnets in place so that your back hatch is unaffected. Ref your original query, for what it's worth these are my thoughts: - *While I'm pretty sure that one battery would run both the two sets of SIMs LED's and a pre-amp, personally I would generally fit two batteries. This is because a flat LED battery in the middle of a number in a gig means the LED lights go out...but a flat pre-amp battery means the bass goes quiet! Or worse - before it goes quiet, they usually start squelching and squeaking as the pre-amp utters it's dying cries. Been there, done that! That said, if as with the Lionheart, you fit a push pull to the volume to switch between passive and active EQ, then at least you will be able to keep on playing - but it will still be a problem because it will probably still squeak and squelch until you realise what's happening and, in any case, switching to passive your amp volume will not be set right. - the SIMS Super Quads are totally passive. The circuit boards on the toggle switches simply add mini resistors and the like into the circuit for certain of the combinations to balance the resistance and avoid the usual volume jumps and drops when changing between the three permutations of the four coils. It's VERY clever stuff, but (or because) it is totally passive. - the preamp simply takes the passive signal and boosts or modifies it through the powered EQ. So yes, @Owen is quite right that you could simply buy an EQ pedal to achieve the same thing unless you want to adjust on-the-fly. Edited February 9, 2023 by Andyjr1515 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 Hi @Andyjr1515, many thanks for the above. I have what I believe is an early Enfield fusion FL that also appears to be passive in terms of tone controls (I say appears because I'm not expert on what the circuits do). I'm looking to fit the J-Retro in the front cavity as would normally be the case, the body has a standard Jazz route. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 27 minutes ago, Beedster said: Hi @Andyjr1515, many thanks for the above. I have what I believe is an early Enfield fusion FL that also appears to be passive in terms of tone controls (I say appears because I'm not expert on what the circuits do). I'm looking to fit the J-Retro in the front cavity as would normally be the case, the body has a standard Jazz route. Ah OK - so it has a front rout and standard Jazz metal controls plate in addition to a rear rout for the two super-quad switches? If so, then by far the simplest is to use the fitted battery on the J-retro plate assembly. At the end of the day, it is presumably only 3 screws to lift out the whole assembly to replace the battery (which often last over a year as long as you remember to pull the jack lead out when not in use) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 3 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said: Ah OK - so it has a front rout and standard Jazz metal controls plate in addition to a rear rout for the two super-quad switches? If so, then by far the simplest is to use the fitted battery on the J-retro plate assembly. At the end of the day, it is presumably only 3 screws to lift out the whole assembly to replace the battery (which often last over a year as long as you remember to pull the jack lead out when not in use) Thanks Andy, that's my thinking, my main concern is of any potential interaction between the J-Retro and the circuitry associated with the Quads to be honest, any thoughts (can't see there could be a problem but then it's about 40 years since I learned anything knew about electronics so.......)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 51 minutes ago, Beedster said: Thanks Andy, that's my thinking, my main concern is of any potential interaction between the J-Retro and the circuitry associated with the Quads to be honest, any thoughts (can't see there could be a problem but then it's about 40 years since I learned anything knew about electronics so.......)? None at all. They are totally passive pickups so it is no different to adding a powered EQ to a standard Jazz Bass 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 If the bass is definitely passive, then there shouldn't be any problem with adding a J-Retro. I only really know about the original versions of the Enfield basses and they definitely had active electronics which were there to balance the changing pickup outputs as well as more conventional tone-shaping functions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 Thanks @Andyjr1515 and @BigRedX. As far as I can tell this version has the active circuit that balances the changing PUP outputs but a conventional passive circuit, but I will do some checking and photography this evening and report back. Thanks for your help 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Beedster said: As far as I can tell this version has the active circuit that balances the changing PUP outputs Just to avoid confusion - in the context of guitars and basses, 'active' means 'powered'. So to clarify, the pickup circuitry on the SuperQuad toggle switches is not active, it is fully passive. The only thing that is powered are the LEDs in the pickup. So yes, you can disconnect the battery and all three tones for both pickups will be unaffected (assuming that you don't have any other powered circuitry anywhere else ) Edited February 9, 2023 by Andyjr1515 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 39 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said: Just to avoid confusion - in the context of guitars and basses, 'active' means 'powered'. So to clarify, the pickup circuitry on the SuperQuad toggle switches is not active, it is fully passive. The only thing that is powered are the LEDs in the pickup. So yes, you can disconnect the battery and all three tones for both pickups will be unaffected (assuming that you don't have any other powered circuitry anywhere else ) That's helpful, thanks, i pulled out the control circuit and yes it's clearly passive albeit with a pull switch the front volume pot that appears to do nothing. It's not immediately clear to me which wires would go where on a J-Retro, I'm used to simpler things, not sure there's enough info here for anyone to advise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 This is the bass BTW 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 There's a fairly comprehensive installation guide on the East web site. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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