Jazz = Fingers PBass = Pick

[NAS Bass]

On 11/02/2023 at 12:15, Lozz196 said:

Jazz bass played with fingers in rock definitely, John Paul Jones immediately springs to mind. 

And of course, he played with a pick on Whole Lot of Love, Heartbreaker, Black Dog - to name a few. 

[Baloney Balderdash]

Really to address the actual issue that OP wants solved.

 

Chances are high you are fine with what you already got for what you want to achieve, please read on:

 

With the right P pickup, the EMG Geezer Butler P for instance would be perfect for this, that is a vintage voice pickup with a slight focus on the upper mids and not overwound, the right EQ (but I think in specific the Geezer P would be perfect for this purpose), roundwound strings, eventually even roundwound stainless steel strings, and eventual perhaps even wiring the pickup directly to the output jack socket to have absolutely no accentuation of the high end the pickup produces as well as raising the resonant peak of it, P pickups can sound plenty of clear, and certainly punch through, with fingerplay too.

 

I would even say under the right circumstances a bass equipped with a P pickup is more likely to punch through a mix, thanks to its general mid focus, than a bass equipped with J pickups, especially if both J pickups are on, which would result in a mid scoop, which again is the recipe to inarticulate mud and getting lost in a mix.

 

If you insist on getting a bass with a J pickup then I would recommend a PJ bass over a JJ bass, but, as said, with a new pickup and an EQ pedal, perhaps even by just adjusting the EQ on your amp, you ought to do fine with what you already got and play. 

 

And also upper mids are your friend, especially the area around 1kHZ, that is about 800Hz or so to about 1.2kHz or so, experiment with choosing a center frequency around there, apply a relatively narrow bandwidth/high Q value, a Q value around 4 or so should work, and then boost, just +1dB to +3dB, depending.

 

I already mentioned this is my previous reply, consult it for compressor settings as well, to emphasis the attack, which will help you cut through, just like the above tip will.

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[crazycloud]

As I don't have a P bass or a J bass, my preference is to play may basses telekinetically. The tone is sublime.

[Baloney Balderdash]

12 minutes ago, crazycloud said:

As I don't have a P bass or a J bass, my preference is to play may basses telekinetically. The tone is sublime.

I'll let you in on a little secret, it is actually I who plays all bases ever played, using mind control. 

 

Of course I can't have my vict..., I mean mediums, panic and resist my mind control, so I make sure to make them think they are actually in control themself.

 

Ever experienced being in the so called state of flow when playing, where stuff seems to play it self, almost as if you are just channeling something that comes from somewhere other than yourself through your fingers?

 

Well, that would really be me! 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[BassAdder60]

10 hours ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

Really to address the actual issue that OP wants solved.

 

Chances are high you are fine with what you already got for what you want to achieve, please read on:

 

With the right P pickup, the EMG Geezer Butler P for instance would be perfect for this, that is a vintage voice pickup with a slight focus on the upper mids and not overwound, the right EQ (but I think in specific the Geezer P would be perfect for this purpose), roundwound strings, eventually even roundwound stainless steel strings, and eventual perhaps even wiring the pickup directly to the output jack socket to have absolutely no accentuation of the high end the pickup produces as well as raising the resonant peak of it, P pickups can sound plenty of clear, and certainly punch through, with fingerplay too.

 

I would even say under the right circumstances a bass equipped with a P pickup is more likely to punch through a mix, thanks to its general mid focus, than a bass equipped with J pickups, especially if both J pickups are on, which would result in a mid scoop, which again is the recipe to inarticulate mud and getting lost in a mix.

 

If you insist on getting a bass with a J pickup then I would recommend a PJ bass over a JJ bass, but, as said, with a new pickup and an EQ pedal, perhaps even by just adjusting the EQ on your amp, you ought to do fine with what you already got and play. 

 

And also upper mids are your friend, especially the area around 1kHZ, that is about 800Hz or so to about 1.2kHz or so, experiment with choosing a center frequency around there, apply a relatively narrow bandwidth/high Q value, a Q value around 4 or so should work, and then boost, just +1dB to +3dB, depending.

 

I already mentioned this is my previous reply, consult it for compressor settings as well, to emphasis the attack, which will help you cut through, just like the above tip will.

 

I agree I don’t think a JB is the way to go.

Tried an experiment last night with my PBass and CTM100 amp using fingers then pick ( with EQ adjustment in both methods ) 

Result was finger style sounds ok although very full and deep. Definition was acceptable 

Pick playing was the winner, clarity was far better with additional harmonics and tone and with the PBass tone backed off it sounded near to finger warmth tone 

Happy to leave it at that although finger style playing is my preferred at times, with the CTM100 and rock you just cannot beat pick tone, it’s in a different league of tone. No pedals needed as it has a natural compression going on and gorgeous tube drive from pre and power tubes 

 

Sorted me thinks and JB off the shopping list 👍

[Bassfinger]

I tend to play songs with a pick that were originally played with a pick, and ditto with fingers, whether I'm on my J or P. 

 

I'm a great mimic but by my own admission lack the spontaneity or imagination to convincingly go my own way on the hoof, so tend to copy those that went before me song for song,

[Frank Blank]

I played in a thrash metal band for 6-7 years, played a Jazz, played finger-style exclusively. My first bass with that band was a Jaydee!

[Vanheusen77]

To me nothing sounds like playing with a pick except actually playing with a pick. If you want more high end clang when playing with your fingers try a lower setup and digging in slightly more. But it will not create that super focused ping at the start of each note that a pick gets you. Same on a jazz or PJ.

[BassAdder60]

On 14/02/2023 at 07:51, BassAdder60 said:

I agree I don’t think a JB is the way to go.

Tried an experiment last night with my PBass and CTM100 amp using fingers then pick ( with EQ adjustment in both methods ) 

Result was finger style sounds ok although very full and deep. Definition was acceptable 

Pick playing was the winner, clarity was far better with additional harmonics and tone and with the PBass tone backed off it sounded near to finger warmth tone 

Happy to leave it at that although finger style playing is my preferred at times, with the CTM100 and rock you just cannot beat pick tone, it’s in a different league of tone. No pedals needed as it has a natural compression going on and gorgeous tube drive from pre and power tubes 

 

Sorted me thinks and JB off the shopping list 👍

A lot has changed since I posted this !!

 

My CTM100 has gone and I’ve purchased a Jazz Bass !!

 

Im finding so far an advantage I think in as much the Jbass has more upper mids which I couldn’t squeeze out of the PBass 

 

Will see how it fits with the band at rehearsals!!

[jd56hawk]

On 11/02/2023 at 07:21, Baloney Balderdash said:

Nothing else than a pick will give you that unique snappy emphasis on the attack.

 

The EHX Steel Leather pedal was made with helping being able to get closer to a pick tone while using you fingers in mind, essentially helping with emphasize the attack, as is the main characteristic of pick playing, as described above.

 

But again, while that might help you get closer, it won't really sound like a pick.

 

Getting an EHX Steel Leather pedal and learning how to utilize the flamenco inspired index and/or middle finger flicking technique would probably be your best bet though.

 

A regular compressor with just the right settings can do a somewhat similar thing though, the trick is to dial in just exactly sufficient attack time to let the transient of your attack fully through unaffected (I'd say just about 30ms or so ought to work well), then following have the compressor cramp down the signal a bit immediately after, just a bit, you wouldn't really want a very high compression ratio, the release time needs to not be set too long either, that is relatively short, but not too short either, and it helps with a hard knee as well, for the cramp down of the signal to happen as fast and steep as possible immediately after the full  transient of the attack initially has been passed through unaffected, all to emphasize the attack (but not too extremely so, for it to still sound natural), like a pick would do (experiment with the threshold value of the compressor). 

 

And using an equalizer pedal to slightly boost a center frequency of 1kHz or so (experiment with a center frequency from around 800Hz to about 1.2kHz) with a relatively narrow bandwidth/high Q value will help with emphasizing the attack too (again a huge boost is not desirable, a slight boost will do, in order for it to still sound natural).

 

Finally, someone who actually knows how to use the Steel Leather

[MattM]

String type has a big influence for me, a P with flats sounds better finger style, rounds with a pick.   Jazz neck pickup pretty identical IMHO.
 

Having said that my current P fretless is equipped with an EMG Geezer and flats and I love a pick with palm-muting.

[la bam]

You can make any bass for any genre. All you need is a bit of time to eq and learn how to eq properly. And how to get the guitarists to stay in lane and stop coming into bass territory. If they come down there that's why bassists struggle to be heard or think they have a bad tone.

 

I've played all range of cheap and not so cheap p basses, j basses, stingrays, spectors, pj basses, all sorts in all sorts of music and bands .... and you can get any bass to fit and style. Especially rock. If you're struggling and some gain and drive / break up and it should come singing through.

[TrevorG]

On 13/02/2023 at 13:35, Supernaut said:

Sounds like you need a Stingray. 

First thing I thought. 

[BassAdder60]

23 minutes ago, TrevorG said:

First thing I thought. 

Been there and tried a Stingray but didn’t find it the solution. 
It was only a Ray34 but it was lacking for what I needed. Shame because I liked the Stingray for playability. 

[Vanheusen77]

I would also say Stingray. More attack but still  ringing mids. Jazz basses have a quicker attack but less of a ringy sustain compared to a P bass or Stingray.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Vanheusen77

[krispn]

A pick will always add something to the top end and cut through more but fingers will add something in the middle. I love a p bass but I’m on a jazz tip just now. I mainly play finger style and the jazz might be less full on but each has their personality. I enjoy the difference from an p and if I played with a pick and some dirt always on I’d sway jazz. 

Edited May 24, 2023 by krispn

[NickA]

Cut though the mix playing finger style?. Ditch Fender and get a Warwick 😁. 

 

...or anything but a fender. 

 

Seriously, brighter, likely round wound, strings. Bit of EQ tweaking; a precision will be just as clear as a Jazz.  The jazz will have more tonal variety but no way sound like a p played with a pick.