Anyone got a Barefaced x10 series with the new tweeter option?

[fretmeister]

I’m thinking about swapping my Super Twin for a Two10 to save a bit more room, and because I slightly prefer my One10 tone with my favourite Mark Bass head. I don’t need the monstrous volume and low end of the ST either for my big band.

 

I don’t usually have cabs with tweeters, but now that it is an option on the x10 cabs I’m thinking about it. Mainly for curiosity reasons.

 

Has anyone got a x10 cab with a tweeter? Is it a good tweeter or is it a hissy pile of @rse like some of the Markbass tweeters are?

 

Ta.

 

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Tweeters don't hiss. Amps do.

[fretmeister]

That's a good point.

[Piers_Williamson]

28 minutes ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

Tweeters don't hiss. Amps do.

Or your ears if you have tinitis

 

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

I haven't come across the tweeter option at BF. I recommend the Eminence BGH25-8, in part because it rolls off above 10kHz, where there's no useful content. The other part is because with 4th order filtering it can be run down to 2kHz, where it gives much wider dispersion than a woofer can.

[Tradfusion]

Just resurrecting this thread with the same question..anyone using the new One10T?

[jazzyvee]

I'm also interested in a One10 cab but wondering about the difference between that one and a One10T cab.

My Big twin has a tweeter in and I like that crispness in the sound. It is unlikely a One10 will be for gigging, mainly for home practice and small band rehearsal sessions.  I don't have much experience with cabs that do not have a tweeter, with two on sale on the site and i am wondering whether I would find the top end lacking if I bought one.

Edited April 19, 2023 by jazzyvee

[fretmeister]

I've got a One10T on order to go with my existing One10.

 

Should be another couple of weeks.

I've always been happy with the treble on the One10 (it goes higher than the Super Twin) but I thought I'd get the T version just to increase options.

 

In the past when I've had a cab with a tweeter I've always turned them off. I may well still do that most of the time unless I'm in a Marcus Miller sort of mood.

[Tdw]

I've got a 110 t and a straight up 110.  For me the 110 t takes the slap sound from being kind of ok to being a proper slap sound. Other than that it doesn't make much difference to me. I suspect the 110 has a high enough responce for most bass sounds anyway. I think it's quite a subtle tweeter/hi fi component , Not a night and day difference even when slapping and popping. When playing a cd through it it is very noticeable though. Personally I think it's only a worthwhile addition if you're into the treblier bass sounds.

[BassmanPaul]

If you're going to miss treat your bass by slapping it I've nothing more to say!!

 

 

[fretmeister]

Forget-Me-Nots doesn't sound right any other way!

[Downunderwonder]

On 26/04/2023 at 06:48, BassmanPaul said:

If you're going to miss treat your bass by slapping it I've nothing more to say!!

 

 

Don't be mistreating your Mother tongue.

[Chienmortbb]

Tweeters are as good as the design and if a tweeter sounds bad it could be the design, your technique or both. 
 

You only have to read the Markbass threads on here and on the Other Place to realise that just adding a tweeter is not the answer. 
 

A level control or switch on a tweetered cab may indicate the designer’s doubt in her/his design or could be a marketing device to counter “tweeter hesitancy”. 
 

There is little that a tweeter control/switch can do that a good amp EQ cannot. Ask Barefaced why they have added the tweeter and how it is implemented. If you are happy with the answers, order one and take advantage of their returns policy. 
 

My concern would be that the 110  has such a baked in sound that balancing the tweeter would be difficult but, only Barefaced can say what they have done. 

Edited April 27, 2023 by Chienmortbb

[asingardenof]

Alex doesn't strike me as the sort of person who'd just add one in willy nilly, I suspect he'll have done a fair amount of tinkering to get it to be worthwhile adding to the range.

[Dood]

The One10T is a brilliant cabinet and the inclusion of a tweeter is what I felt was missing from the original One10 review I made a while back. The tweeter seems well matched and there's certainly not the gap in response that I have heard in many cabinets where the woofer roll off was too low and the tweeter roll off too high. 

 

I'd love to try the Two10T live to see how it fairs. 

 

It's a thumbs up from me.

[Chienmortbb]

On 28/04/2023 at 10:55, asingardenof said:

Alex doesn't strike me as the sort of person who'd just add one in willy nilly, I suspect he'll have done a fair amount of tinkering to get it to be worthwhile adding to the range.

My point was that it would need a lot of tinkering to get it right. I was not implying that Ales just plonked a Piezo in with a resistor, like as many manufacturers do.

[Chienmortbb]

1 hour ago, Dood said:

The One10T is a brilliant cabinet and the inclusion of a tweeter is what I felt was missing from the original One10 review I made a while back. The tweeter seems well matched and there's certainly not the gap in response that I have heard in many cabinets where the woofer roll off was too low and the tweeter roll off too high. 

 

I'd love to try the Two10T live to see how it fairs. 

 

It's a thumbs up from me.

It sounds like Alex has done a good job of balancing the drivers.

[asingardenof]

On 30/04/2023 at 14:31, Chienmortbb said:

My point was that it would need a lot of tinkering to get it right. I was not implying that Ales just plonked a Piezo in with a resistor, like as many manufacturers do.

If anyone can be relied upon to do the requisite amount of tinkering it'll be Mr Claber.

[Tdw]

There doesn't seem to be an obvious frequency gap to me  so I'd guess the tweeter is pretty well matched, it sounds consistent to me.

 

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Frequency gaps aren't the issue. Uniformity of off-axis response is. The higher you go with the woofer the narrower the dispersion angle, eventually resulting in full out beaming. Most bass cabs cross over to the tweeter in the 3.5kHz to 4kHz range, which is where even a ten will beam. Crossing over at 2kHz to 2.5kHz is much better. Doing so without worry of blowing the tweeter requires a high order crossover, preferably with a 24dB/octave high pass. No manufacturer I'm aware of does so. Barefaced might, but their literature doesn't say.

Edited May 2, 2023 by Bill Fitzmaurice

[Chienmortbb]

1 hour ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

Frequency gaps aren't the issue. Uniformity of off-axis response is.

Plus 1

[stevie]

1 hour ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

Frequency gaps aren't the issue. Uniformity of off-axis response is. The higher you go with the woofer the narrower the dispersion angle, eventually resulting in full out beaming. Most bass cabs cross over to the tweeter in the 3.5kHz to 4kHz range, which is where even a ten will beam. Crossing over at 2kHz to 2.5kHz is much better. Doing so without worry of blowing the tweeter requires a high order crossover, preferably with a 24dB/octave high pass. No manufacturer I'm aware of does so. Barefaced might, but their literature doesn't say.

Another Plus 1.

 

Ahermmm..... https://www.lfsys.co.uk/bassguitarproducts

 

"Driver compliment is a cast-chassis Faital Pro 12" driver crossed over at 2kHz to a Celestion compression driver on a vertically aligned, cast aluminium CD horn. This arrangment generates a dispersion pattern that enables players to hear every detail of their sound even when standing right next to the cabinet."

 

Off-axis response is critical in sound reinforcement, which is why high-end PA speaker manufacturers pay a lot of attention to it.

 

This video explains it really well, albeit from a hi-fi perspective. It does get a bit techical though:

 

 

[fretmeister]

Great. 

 

Another video that I'll have to get my daughter to explain to me.

She patronises me enough, thank you very much!  

[stevie]

You're welcome, @fretmeister☺️

[chyc]

On the subject of beaming, I asked my good, and only, friend ChatGPT this very question:

 

 

This, erm, surprised me, that according to my esteemed AI, the beaming frequency halved in a ported cabinet, so I followed up:

 

This smells like hogwash to me, but is anyone more acquainted in hogwash able to chime in here?

 

For the benefit of search engines, here are the images above in text:

 

Quote

At what frequencies does beaming start in speaker cabinets, for 10", 12" and 15" woofers?

 

Beaming is a phenomenon that occurs in speakers when the wavelength of the sound being produced is similar in size to the diameter of the driver. This causes the speaker to focus the sound in a narrow beam in front of the speaker, resulting in reduced dispersion and a narrower listening "sweet spot." The frequency at which beaming starts depends on the diameter of the driver and the type of enclosure used.

 

For a 10" woofer in a sealed enclosure, beaming typically begins around 2000-3000 Hz, while in a vented enclosure it may begin at lower frequencies, around 1000-1500 Hz.

 

For a 12" woofer in a sealed enclosure, beaming typically begins around 1500-2000 Hz, while in a vented enclosure it may begin at even lower frequencies, around 800-1000 Hz.

 

For a 15" woofer in a sealed enclosure, beaming typically begins around 1000-1500 Hz, while in a vented enclosure it may begin at even lower frequencies, around 500-800 Hz.

 

It's important to note that these are general guidelines and the exact frequency at which beaming occurs can vary depending on the specific driver and enclosure design. Additionally, beaming is not always a bad thing - in some cases, it can actually be desirable for certain applications.

 

Quote

Why does the enclosure type change the beaming frequency?

 

The enclosure type affects the frequency at which beaming occurs because it affects the behavior of the sound waves inside the enclosure. In a sealed enclosure, the air inside the enclosure is trapped and cannot escape, which means that the air behaves like a spring when the speaker cone moves back and forth. This creates a smooth roll-off in the high-frequency response, and as a result, the beaming frequency occurs at a higher frequency.

 

In a vented enclosure, on the other hand, the air inside the enclosure can move in and out through a port, which changes the way the air inside the enclosure behaves. The port effectively adds an additional resonant frequency to the system, which can lower the frequency at which beaming occurs.

 

Additionally, the physical size and shape of the enclosure can also affect the frequency at which beaming occurs. Enclosures that are larger in size tend to have lower beaming frequencies, while enclosures that are smaller tend to have higher beaming frequencies. The shape of the enclosure can also affect the beaming frequency, with more angular shapes typically producing higher beaming frequencies compared to more rounded shapes.

Overall, the specific design of the speaker enclosure, including its type, size, and shape, can have a significant impact on the frequency at which beaming occurs.