Action!

[roger]

How do you all go about getting the lowest possible action, is there a sequence you follow? And what is considered a ‘low action’? Thanks in advance 

[BlueMoon]

Truss rod, bridge saddles typically addressed first. Then, if not low enough for your personal taste check the depth of the nut slots and whether you need to shim the neck (assuming the instrument is a bolt-on neck).

 

As to your question about typical measurement for action, that will be a personal preference. Start with the manufacturers’ recommendations and go from there.

 

Hope this helps, but shoot with questions if you have them.

[roger]

1 hour ago, BlueMoon said:

Truss rod, bridge saddles typically addressed first. Then, if not low enough for your personal taste check the depth of the nut slots and whether you need to shim the neck (assuming the instrument is a bolt-on neck).

 

As to your question about typical measurement for action, that will be a personal preference. Start with the manufacturers’ recommendations and go from there.

 

Hope this helps, but shoot with questions if you have them.

Hey thanks, I’m pretty happy with the nexk relief And it’s pretty low but it buzzes when screwing down the saddles further, I did think about nut slots as it looks like I could tweak those 👍

[Bigguy2017]

If relief is AOK and minimal check the nut slot heights.

Get the fret rocker out... any high frets will ruin a low action.

If fret rocker shows high frets then a spot or full fret level is indicated.

 

[Andyjr1515]

6 hours ago, Bigguy2017 said:

If relief is AOK and minimal check the nut slot heights.

Get the fret rocker out... any high frets will ruin a low action.

If fret rocker shows high frets then a spot or full fret level is indicated.

 

^ Absolutely this ^

[Richard R]

https://www.studybass.com/gear/bass-setup/bass-setup-intro/

 

I read this all the way through twice, and then set my bass up exactly following the instructions. I forget what the string height was,  but it was much lower than when I started and the intonation was spot on. 

 

 

[Andyjr1515]

11 hours ago, Richard R said:

https://www.studybass.com/gear/bass-setup/bass-setup-intro/

 

I read this all the way through twice, and then set my bass up exactly following the instructions. I forget what the string height was,  but it was much lower than when I started and the intonation was spot on. 

 

 

Yes - a well presented sequence and should, on most basses, get you down to a 'normal decent' action height.

 

However, @roger has thrown the gauntlet not only onto the floor, but down the spiral staircase of the castle's turret   He's asking about 'the lowest possible action'.  And for that, the fretwork has to be as near perfect as possible.

 

So - it all depends on the bass, the strings and, more importantly, the playing style but - my definition of a very low action on a 4 string bass (measured with a capo on the 1st fret to eliminate the nut and measured from fret top to bottom of string at the 12th fret)  is around 0.75mm on the G and around 1mm for the other three.  Much lower and the amplitude of the actual string vibration in places is likely to greater than the gap between the string and the fret and the bass will sound more like a sitar. 

 

To achieve that, then, as @Bigguy2017 says, the frets have to be 'rocker level flat' at all 164 positions and there needs to be no 'ski jump' at the upper frets whatsoever.  In fact, for very low actions, the final 6-7 frets should ideally be levelled to give a moderate fall-away.   The reason for this is that under string tension, the neck bends upwards...but the length from the beginning of the neck pocket can't bend - and so it becomes more like a rising ramp (hence the ski-jump term).  Because the actions on basses tend to be higher than on guitars, most basses won't suffer this - but for low actions, they might well do so. 

[Baloney Balderdash]

You might want to consider if the lowest possible obtainable action would even actually be desirable to you.

 

First of all lowest possible obtainable action will differ from person to person, as how light or hard you prefer to pluck the strings, as well as, somewhat related, preferred string gauge and tension, will influence on how low you practically can get before it starts to affect tone and sustain negatively and fret buzz becomes and issue, even with the frets absolutely perfectly leveled.

 

Also there is the feel aspect, the fact that different people prefer different levels of resistance when fretting, personally for example I like to be able to feel that I am actually fretting the string, there needs to be at least a minimum amount of resistance, but not to much either, so for me personally I've found that just about 1.8mm string action, and not much neither lower or higher, measured from bottom of low E string to top of the 12th fret works perfect for me, about 1.4mm for high G string side, and with an absolute minimum, almost completely flat, neck relief, which minimum obtainable amount before it becomes an issue also is determined by preferred plucking strength, as well as string gauge and tension

 

More neck relief however, up to a certain limit, will generally allow for lower overall string action, as the slight forward bow of the neck gives the strings more room to vibrate, so there is a balance there to consider as well.

 

And to specify, harder plucking will require higher action and more relief, higher gauge will too, as the strings will require more room to vibrate, however this is to some extend countered (as higher gauge generally will mean relatively higher tension) by the fact that strings under higher tension require less space to vibrate (meaning lower minimum obtainable neck relief and string action), but again this will be relatively to and depending on how hard you prefer to pluck the strings.

 

All in all a lot a variables to consider determining the lowest possible obtainable action that are all to some extend relatively/in relation to and interactive with each other, and that is if this is even actually also desirable, which as mentioned, is yet another factor to consider. 

 

I any case I wish you best of luck with setting up your bass to the specs that fits your playing style and preferences the best. 

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[Richard R]

3 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

around 0.75mm on the G and around 1mm for the other three

 

😲 That really IS low!

[velvetkevorkian]

As a confirmed "as low as it can go" fiend, I think I'm going to have to bite the bullet and learn how to do a proper fret dress one of these days...

[Andyjr1515]

36 minutes ago, velvetkevorkian said:

As a confirmed "as low as it can go" fiend, I think I'm going to have to bite the bullet and learn how to do a proper fret dress one of these days...

There's a 'quick and dirty' way that can get you 2/3rds there with the minimum of equipment and, to be honest, skills.  I've done a short tutorial somewhere...I'll see if I can find it when I get a moment

[Andyjr1515]

21 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

There's a 'quick and dirty' way that can get you 2/3rds there with the minimum of equipment and, to be honest, skills.  I've done a short tutorial somewhere...I'll see if I can find it when I get a moment

 

 

OK - found it.  A 'quick and dirty' way of finding and sorting high spots in frets and also negating a 'ski-jump'.

 

Warning  This is NOT the way a pro-luthier would do it and, because it doesn't involve re-crowning and re-polishing the frets and other important stuff, it is merely intended as a quick fix on your own bass and at your own risk.  Also not great if you string bend on your bass (most of us don't).  Don't do this on someone else's bass or any particularly valuable one!!!

 

1.  Quick and Dirty way of finding and tackling high spots on frets 

 

 Use the straight part of an old credit card to use as a 'rocker'.  Put the straight edge over 3 frets (use both hands...my other hand here is holding the camera) and does it rock?  If it does, then it indicates a high spot at that string position for the middle fret of the three.  Do this next to each string for that middle-of-the-three fret and repeat all the way up the board.  Normally, when I'm not holding a camera, I would be holding the other side of the card with the other hand and just gently applying pressure on either side.  Make a note of any high spot on a simple chart:

 

 

 

You must be using the straight part of the card edge and not where it starts curving at the corners and also the edge must be covering only three frets at a time.  As the frets start closing up, just use the shorter edge to make sure you're still only covering 3 frets:

 

On a bass, for the first few frets, a credit card isn't long enough.  Anything straight and thin will do! :

 

Note, by the way, that you can't check the 1st fret (rare that this is an issue if the nut is cut properly)

 

Next - on the frets where there is a high spot, mark the top of the fret with a non-permanent sharpie:

 

 

Then take an emery board nail file (most supermarkets, Boots, etc):

 

Use your finger to apply pressure and file gently back and forth in the direction of the fret and where the high spot was under that particular string.  The sharpie line disappearing will show you if you're filing in the right place which only needs to be under the actual string that you marked an 'X' against on your plan.  A bit either side is OK but don't stray to another string's position unless that was also marked as high.  THE PHOTO BELOW IS ILLUSTRATIVE.  WHEN YOU DO THIS BIT, POP A STRIP OF MASKING TAPE EITHER SIDE OF THE FRET TO PROTECT THE FRETBOARD IF YOU ACCIDENTALLY ANGLE THE EMERY BOARD.

 

Check frequently with the credit card until it doesn't rock anymore THEN STOP!

 

If you have a whole fret that appears to be high, first check that it is seated properly on the fretboard.  If it isn't, tap it lightly along the fret with a hammer and recheck.  If it's still high, then use the emery board, potentially along the whole fret - but check with the credit card at each string position frequently so you don't overdo it.

 

The fret top will be slightly flat where you've levelled it.  On a bass, Quick and Dirty says don't worry about that - I would defy anybody who says they can hear an intonation difference (although you can on a 6 string electric).

Also the fret top will be slightly scratched.  But the scratches will be along the fret direction and shouldn't give a problem.  If it worries you, a fingernail buffer will polish those out to a decent extent (what's a fingernail buffer?  Ask wife/partner/sister/mother...they will be in the same area as the emery nail boards)  

 

2.  Quick and Dirty reduction from a 'ski jump' to a 'gentle ski slope' (sometimes referred to as a fall-away)

 

What is a 'ski jump'?  It is where the upper frets, restrained by the neck pocket bolts, end up at an angle to the rest of the neck (which is pulled up by the string tension).  It is sometimes just the last couple of frets, but often will affect all frets that sit over the neck pocket. The symptoms are when the bass has a decently moderate action but you still have a buzz coming from the very top frets.

 

BUT FIRST - a repeat of the warning: Don't do this on someone else's bass or any particularly valuable one!!! THIS SECTION WOULD BE BEST DONE BY SOMEONE A BIT MORE EXPERIENCED AND, IN ANY CASE, ONLY SHOULD BE DONE IF YOU CAN BE SURE YOU HAVE HIGH UPPER FRETS

 

Purchase a cheap 2-sided diamond steel sharpening stone.  Something like this from Amazon.  A cheap one like this isn't going to last long but will be fine for this task:

 

 

Pop a bit of masking tape over the neck pickup to stop any filings sticking to the poles

 

Taking care that the far end isn't anywhere near scratching the bass top, lay the stone on the fretboard where you want the ski slope to start from (usually the 1st fret from where the body joins the neck).  Using both hands, gently move the stone 'rough side' down over the frets in this direction.  It is easier if someone is holding the bass to stop is moving:

Apply light pressure for the lower frets with your left hand and slightly higher pressure with your right hand on the upper frets.

 

You should see the tops of the upper frets flattening evenly along the length of the fret and the lower fret tops less so.

 

Stop when the flattening of the upper frets is no more than 1mm wide.  

 

Turn the stone over to the 'fine' side (usually 1000grit) and repeat 5-6 times to take out some of the scratches.

 

String it up and try it.  

 

If it needs some more, then just repeat

 

 

 

And that, folks, is Andyjr1515's Quick and Dirty method. 

  

Edited February 16, 2023 by Andyjr1515

[Waddo Soqable]

^ Great tutorial there 👍

I had a "ski jump" on the 4 string tenor guitar I made from a regular acoustic, it was basically everything from fret 14 where the body joins the neck. 

I got a big old smooth engineer's file (that was dead flat) and filed the frets quite a way down until they were clear of the strings fretted above. In this case I wasn't bothered about the playability of those frets anyway as I was never going up the dusty end.. (there's no money above the 5th fret ) 

[ped]

1 hour ago, Andyjr1515 said:

 

 

OK - found it.  A 'quick and dirty' way of finding and sorting high spots in frets and also negating a 'ski-jump'.

 

Warning  This is NOT the way a pro-luthier would do it and, because it doesn't involve re-crowning and re-polishing the frets and other important stuff, it is merely intended as a quick fix on your own bass and at your own risk.  Also not great if you string bend on your bass (most of us don't).  Don't do this on someone else's bass or any particularly valuable one!!!

 

1.  Quick and Dirty way of finding and tackling high spots on frets 

 

 Use the straight part of an old credit card to use as a 'rocker'.  Put the straight edge over 3 frets (use both hands...my other hand here is holding the camera) and does it rock?  If it does, then it indicates a high spot at that string position for the middle fret of the three.  Do this next to each string for that middle-of-the-three fret and repeat all the way up the board.  Normally, when I'm not holding a camera, I would be holding the other side of the card with the other hand and just gently applying pressure on either side.  Make a note of any high spot on a simple chart:

 

 

 

You must be using the straight part of the card edge and not where it starts curving at the corners and also the edge must be covering only three frets at a time.  As the frets start closing up, just use the shorter edge to make sure you're still only covering 3 frets:

 

On a bass, for the first few frets, a credit card isn't long enough.  Anything straight and thin will do! :

 

Note, by the way, that you can't check the 1st fret (rare that this is an issue if the nut is cut properly)

 

Next - on the frets where there is a high spot, mark the top of the fret with a non-permanent sharpie:

 

 

Then take an emery board nail file (most supermarkets, Boots, etc):

 

Use your finger to apply pressure and file gently back and forth in the direction of the fret and where the high spot was under that particular string.  The sharpie line disappearing will show you if you're filing in the right place which only needs to be under the actual string that you marked an 'X' against on your plan.  A bit either side is OK but don't stray to another string's position unless that was also marked as high.  THE PHOTO BELOW IS ILLUSTRATIVE.  WHEN YOU DO THIS BIT, POP A STRIP OF MASKING TAPE EITHER SIDE OF THE FRET TO PROTECT THE FRETBOARD IF YOU ACCIDENTALLY ANGLE THE EMERY BOARD.

 

Check frequently with the credit card until it doesn't rock anymore THEN STOP!

 

If you have a whole fret that appears to be high, first check that it is seated properly on the fretboard.  If it isn't, tap it lightly along the fret with a hammer and recheck.  If it's still high, then use the emery board, potentially along the whole fret - but check with the credit card at each string position frequently so you don't overdo it.

 

The fret top will be slightly flat where you've levelled it.  On a bass, Quick and Dirty says don't worry about that - I would defy anybody who says they can hear an intonation difference (although you can on a 6 string electric).

Also the fret top will be slightly scratched.  But the scratches will be along the fret direction and shouldn't give a problem.  If it worries you, a fingernail buffer will polish those out to a decent extent (what's a fingernail buffer?  Ask wife/partner/sister/mother...they will be in the same area as the emery nail boards)  

 

2.  Quick and Dirty reduction from a 'ski jump' to a 'gentle ski slope' (sometimes referred to as a fall-away)

 

What is a 'ski jump'?  It is where the upper frets, restrained by the neck pocket bolts, end up at an angle to the rest of the neck (which is pulled up by the string tension).  It is sometimes just the last couple of frets, but often will affect all frets that sit over the neck pocket. The symptoms are when the bass has a decently moderate action but you still have a buzz coming from the very top frets.

 

BUT FIRST - a repeat of the warning: Don't do this on someone else's bass or any particularly valuable one!!! THIS SECTION WOULD BE BEST DONE BY SOMEONE A BIT MORE EXPERIENCED AND, IN ANY CASE, ONLY SHOULD BE DONE IF YOU CAN BE SURE YOU HAVE HIGH UPPER FRETS

 

Purchase a cheap 2-sided diamond steel sharpening stone.  Something like this from Amazon.  A cheap one like this isn't going to last long but will be fine for this task:

 

 

Pop a bit of masking tape over the neck pickup to stop any filings sticking to the poles

 

Taking care that the far end isn't anywhere near scratching the bass top, lay the stone on the fretboard where you want the ski slope to start from (usually the 1st fret from where the body joins the neck).  Using both hands, gently move the stone 'rough side' down over the frets in this direction.  It is easier if someone is holding the bass to stop is moving:

Apply light pressure for the lower frets with your left hand and slightly higher pressure with your right hand on the upper frets.

 

You should see the tops of the upper frets flattening evenly along the length of the fret and the lower fret tops less so.

 

Stop when the flattening of the upper frets is no more than 1mm wide.  

 

Turn the stone over to the 'fine' side (usually 1000grit) and repeat 5-6 times to take out some of the scratches.

 

String it up and try it.  

 

If it needs some more, then just repeat

 

 

 

And that, folks, is Andyjr1515's Quick and Dirty method. 

  

 

Superb post Andy! Can you post again showing the long number across the front of the card lol

[Andyjr1515]

1 hour ago, ped said:

 

Superb post Andy! Can you post again showing the long number across the front of the card lol

Thanks

 

It's my lapsed AA membership card and folks are very welcome to try to get the AA to come out to them on the back of it.  The AA certainly didn't come out to me when it was current...

 

 

Andy (#abandonedbytheAAUKt**ts)  

Edited February 16, 2023 by Andyjr1515

[Richard R]

The AA fix basses?

[Waddo Soqable]

3 minutes ago, Richard R said:

The AA fix basses?

Nah, they all sit around on polypropylene chairs going on about when they last had a drink... 

[Andyjr1515]

1 hour ago, Richard R said:

The AA fix basses?

Well they certainly don't fix cars!*  

 

 

*In my personal experience.  Your experience may, of course, differ.

[Waddo Soqable]

2 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

Well they certainly don't fix cars!*  

 

 

*In my personal experience.  Your experience may, of course, differ.

I dumped them years ago when they kept putting the renewal price up and up...