If you have a decent amp...

[MacDaddy]

If you have a decent amp, why would you need a preamp?

[Grav]

I use one for a few extra tone options or occasionally as a 'second channel' for a specific song in a set. 

 

Some great amps have rubbish DI's too so a separate pre-amp can take care of that duty.

[Lozz196]

 In my last band most of the gigs were with provided rigs or gear shares, I rarely used my own amp. So I decided that it was best to get my sound from a preamp so I could get it, and most importantly send it to FOH at every gig. 

[casapete]

I’ve often wondered the same thing. People spend a fortune on some high end amp

and then get ‘their sound’ from the ( often expensive) additional pre amp. 

Beats me. Just find an amp you like the sound of, or get an outboard preamp

and run it into a power amp or FRFR powered cab.

 

*For complete transparency, I run a Sansamp into my GK rig, but only for DI 

purposes. 😁

 

[Merton]

But what does “decent” mean? 🤓

 

To person A, decent means a flat response amp which faithfully recreates the bass and any effects/preamp tones. Hence a preamp is maybe part of that signal chain.

 

To person B, decent means an amp with character to help define “their tone”.

 

There will be person C, D, E etc with slightly different tonal goals too.

 

I used to be person B. Now I’m closer to person A (maybe I can be person C?!) - my Trace TE-1200 is a stupendous amp which sounds amazing on its own but also takes whether I throw at it. I want a clean but ballsy tone? Amp only. Some grit through to a hairy mess? add a preamp in front of it.

[Lozz196]

Yep, for me in my last band the bass sound, which included some gain/drive, was an integral part of the bands sound so to us it was essential to have it constant, hence the preamp - not all amps could do that sound, some couldn’t get anywhere near.
 

Whereas in my current band the bass is being a - what I call proper - bass so I’m less precious about the sound, I can get what I need from pretty much most amps. 

 

And if I have to use my own amp I’ve found that my Ashdown RM500 seems to suit the band better than my ABM600.

[DGBass]

Person D(G)😉 - I've grown to appreciate each 'decent' amp I have on the amp shelf and to use their on board EQ sections to suit my purpose. Whether thats an AH250 GP11, an ABM, or a GK 700RB. I have a few other 'decent' amps as well and all have strengths EQ wise. Thats my thing though, having a few different amps and to enjoy what they can each do while working out how to get the best from them.  My pedal board is now almost empty of bass effects/EQ pedals and I find that very liberating not relying on external boxes to shape a sound. But then I'm always supplying the backline and I can appreciate the need for a pre-amp/DI pedal option for shared bill gigs where I'd have to use what is on stage. In that case a good pre-amp box will carry your unique sound straight to the desk or into the line in/return jack of a donor setup. I don't need a seperate pre-amp box though, just more 'decent' amps!

[Downunderwonder]

Depending on the preamp, some will give you a whole universe of tonal outcome options from your merely decent amp.

 

If you're talking about pedals you're generally getting foot switching as well.

 

Then there's the other reason, dirty old GAS.

[fretmeister]

Sometimes it is the combination of the amp and a separate preamp that is the only way to get to the wanted sound. Viewing them as separate things rather than as elements of the entire signal path isn't always the right approach.

 

I really like Mark Bass heads but they are at the clean end of the spectrum. Sometimes a preamp pedal is used as an overdrive but with a more capable EQ for the drive to give a different type of overall amp sound. But it's a combination of the pedal and the preamp in the head that I really like. Going into the FX return or a power amp doesn't sound as good to my ears.

 

TBH I'd pass a law that ordered every potential venue on earth to have a good PA system so I only had to take a pedal with me in the first place!  

[Lozz196]

I could deal with that law

[Baloney Balderdash]

Because the right preamp can turn your decent amp into a not merely decent but amazing sounding one.

 

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[Paul S]

I'm another 'amp-less, get my tone from a preamp and go through the pa' type.  I have the best bass sound I've ever had, no backline to worry about.  it is so liberating! 

[fretmeister]

15 minutes ago, Paul S said:

I'm another 'amp-less, get my tone from a preamp and go through the pa' type.  I have the best bass sound I've ever had, no backline to worry about.  it is so liberating! 

 

If I could just get 20 brass and reed players to buy a PA that would be my choice too.

[casapete]

28 minutes ago, Paul S said:

I'm another 'amp-less, get my tone from a preamp and go through the pa' type.  I have the best bass sound I've ever had, no backline to worry about.  it is so liberating! 

Are you using IEM’s Paul, or the house monitor system?

 

From my (admittedly limited) experience of relying on the quality of the in house monitors, I

do prefer ensuring that I get the sound I want/need by bringing my own amp and cab. With

smaller and lighter cabs like the Barefaced stuff it really isn’t a problem for me. I have done

a few gigs with just a preamp into the house system where it’s been okay, but still felt

like a bit of a compromise for me for some reason. 

[Paul S]

42 minutes ago, casapete said:

Are you using IEM’s Paul, or the house monitor system?

 

From my (admittedly limited) experience of relying on the quality of the in house monitors, I

do prefer ensuring that I get the sound I want/need by bringing my own amp and cab. With

smaller and lighter cabs like the Barefaced stuff it really isn’t a problem for me. I have done

a few gigs with just a preamp into the house system where it’s been okay, but still felt

like a bit of a compromise for me for some reason. 

 

My band has an RCF EVOX 8 pa system.  There is some kind of voodoo with these that the stacks can be placed behind you and not feed back, so we don't need monitors, just something to attenuate the volume in your ears.  In my case I turn down my hearing aids!

 

When we play bigger venues I just use whatever monitors are provided as I am, perhaps strangely, really not bothered much by my on stage sound, only what it sounds like out front.  As long as I can hear what I am playing, that is fine for me.  But it isn't generally going to be a million miles away from what the desk is getting from the DI on my pedal.  And if it is there isn't much I can do about it anyway  

[skidder652003]

for when my superb valve amp goes t1ts up halfway through a gig..

[danbowskill]

I like to use dirt and distortions, so I use a gritty pre amp pedal (Dark glass ,sansamp) as an always on drive with great Eq options which a lot of great heads don't do alone.and sometimes the mix of the head and pedal yeild excellent results.

My Pro3 on its own is ok...but with a bit of blended bassdriver it just comes alive.

[BigRedX]

On 13/02/2023 at 16:09, MacDaddy said:

If you have a decent amp, why would you need a preamp?

 

This what I have been saying for years. 

 

EQ in the analog domain can cause changes in phase at certain frequencies. Something that is very detrimental to a good solid bass sound. It is always best to EQ in a single place in the signal chain. If you need to have two sets of EQ controls then you have the wrong equipment for your sound.

[Baloney Balderdash]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

 

This what I have been saying for years. 

 

EQ in the analog domain can cause changes in phase at certain frequencies. Something that is very detrimental to a good solid bass sound. It is always best to EQ in a single place in the signal chain. If you need to have two sets of EQ controls then you have the wrong equipment for your sound.

 

 

The right sound, but achieved with the wrong equipment? 

 

How is that possible?

 

Changes of the phase at certain frequencies is for example exactly part of what makes Echoplex type preamps so attractive, what contributes to their "3D" quality, but I guess that too would be wrong to use in your book?

 

Also says who exactly, beside you?

 

What are you, member of international tone police force?

 

Just because something works or something doesn't work for you personally doesn't make it the ultimate universal absolute law. 

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[JPJ]

On one of my gigs I double on EUB and fretless bass through a single channel amp. In this setting, and IMHO, a preamp or a true twin channel amp is almost essential if you want both instruments to sound at their best. 

[Stofferson]

Sansamp at the end of my chain just makes everything sound better.

I have a great amp, but use a lot of drive, Sansamp after drive is bang on.

[Downunderwonder]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

 

This what I have been saying for years. 

 

EQ in the analog domain can cause changes in phase at certain frequencies. Something that is very detrimental to a good solid bass sound. It is always best to EQ in a single place in the signal chain. If you need to have two sets of EQ controls then you have the wrong equipment for your sound.

I have it on high authority that human hearing is insensitive to shifts of phase across the audible spectrum. Exhibit A, a phase response chart for any bass speaker you like. It's all over the place and all you hear is bass.

[Baloney Balderdash]

26 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said:

I have it on high authority that human hearing is insensitive to shifts of phase across the audible spectrum. Exhibit A, a phase response chart for any bass speaker you like. It's all over the place and all you hear is bass.

It's not that human hearing is insensitive to shifts in phase, at least not trained ears, like that of musicians, it's just that those changes in phase at certain frequencies exactly is part of what makes some speakers more attractive than others (and might I add different speakers to different people, as preference of tone is very much just that, an objective personal preference).

 

Very few people would prefer a pure uni-phase FRFR signal from an electric bass guitar, that is if such was even possible.

 

Which is my point, that changes of the phase at certain frequencies is actually very much a desired effect.

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[Frank Blank]

Handbags at dawn, it's what the Internet was made for.

[uk_lefty]

I get the sound I want from an Ashdown ABM600. I have a "decent" preamp (opinions may vary...) Which is a Fender Downtown Express. I usually use it for compression, the mute switch and the occasional bit of overdrive. I use the EQ more as a volume boost, I don't want it on 90% of the time. I have this pedal because if for any reason I can't use my amp I could XLR from this pedal. So it's my "backup amp" without having to carry a backup amp.