Best lightweight head and cabs for Reggae?

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

1 hour ago, Marcus Cornall said:

1. I am considering an amp containing a tube.I have never had one before. Try not to laugh! 

I didn't have the income for a proper amp before either.

I am considering it because I would like a more 'vintage ' sound,which at the moment is what comes out of my Cort-essentially a rw P

Vintage sound doesn't come from a pre-amp tube. It comes from a power tube output section, which between the natural compression imparted by them and the output transformer imparts response that can only be more or less duplicated with amp emulation DSP.

 

Quote

Question 2  is ...what size of wattage of amp would you use with a BB II in those circs?

Between 1/2 and 2x the speaker thermal rating. Knowing that low price amp specs can't be trusted I'd avoid those.

[Downunderwonder]

@Marcus Cornall you keep using the term driving properly. From the cab's point of view there is improperly driving but outside of improper driving is a vast range of acceptable driving practices that can be done by nearly every amp ever made. All of the improper conditions have been explained already. From the cab's point of view you can never put too little power into it.

 

Impedance.

Too much power.

Too little amp power causing nasty sounds as the overdriven amp sounds bad.

Too little hearing to hear too much power being applied.

 

In your band it seems you only need a monitor. Since you claim your subs are inaudible to you on stage your sound guys must he keeping the level well towards the trad end of not overbearing. So any sub frequencies you put out on stage will be causing lower fidelity out front.

 

Good learning thread though.

[jrixn1]

11 hours ago, Marcus Cornall said:

It's good advice to try cabs,but there aren't going to be BBs anywhere here.

There was a general consensus that that cab,or Barefaced ones,are the best bet for the type of thing I do.

But yes,I am  to try others locally.

 

I used to have a Big Baby 2 which I used with a 900W amp (it was 500W into 8 ohms), and it's a great combination.  At some point however, I switched to powered speakers and had my best sound ever with an RCF 732-A.  They put out a lot of volume across all frequencies - I often cut the bass EQ frequency as otherwise it was too much.  They are £746 new vs £1,149 for a Big Baby 3 - plus with the Barefaced you have to buy a separate power amp on top; the RCF has 700W of power amp built in.  So I would say a definite viable alternative.  You should be able to try one in PMT or similar store.

[mcnach]

On 16/02/2023 at 10:44, Marcus Cornall said:

Hello everyone! 

This is my first ever post ,but I have read great advice on so many threads here.

Now I am hoping you can help with advice for me.

 

Sorry if this is long but I have learned it pays to help those trying to help you ,by providing the right info.

 

I am in a Reggae band ,and have for the past 3 years used my Peavey Firebass 700 going into my cab, an old front ported one which says 'Artiste Professional' on it.a 1x 15 ,which I think is a 300w speaker.i have never had it apart to see what impedance the speaker has.

I'm playing a Cort B2 headless (with flats),as I have a back injury and its very light..It has a split P pickup ,and I play with tone off for the deepest roundest tone I can get.Settings are : low almost full,low mids quarter to halfway,hi mids and treble right off.contour on full 'roundness'.      I LOVE the sound of The Firebass but it is heavy,as is the cab.

 

I want a light rig but that can still deliver the biggest deepest bottom  end.i do plan to use it to put my other Fender basses through for other styles,and hope for something which will also suit vintage type Fender J tones.

I am thinking this probably means a class D amp? Or could there be a light(er) SS one out there?

I use an Ampeg PF 500 in rehearsals going into a 4x10(unbranded and old),and that delivers more than my own rig,which I sometimes do have to push bit.

But I have also looked at the Little Mark Tube and Vintage amps (although never tried them.-do I need a tube stage for better vintage tone?

I want an amp that adds 'colour' like my SS amp does.The PF seems to do that with the lows.

 

As for cabs ...PF ? They're light ,but Markbass are even lighter! At what point do you start sacrificing bottom for lightness?

For what I do ,I need to put as much out between 0 and 120 hz as poss.I may also have to use a 5 string soon.

 

I just ended up with my current rig.I didn't really pay attention to a better one as I never had the money,and didn't gig much for several years.

So I also don't really know about impedance ,despite trying to get it,nor about pairing amps and cabs,nor what the differences are in sound and power between a 4x10 and a 1x15!

ANY advice would be really gratefully recieved,and sorry I am asking a few things at once.

 

 

 

You got a few good suggestions already.

 

I have to add another to the mix. I've recently had the pleasure of trying an LFSys cab (Monaco model) from our very own @stevie and I was very impressed with it. It's light, it's loud, I really liked the shape and handle type/position which makes carrying it really easy... I'm using a pair of Barefaced Two10 with a Mesa D800+, and currently I'm mostly playing reggae/ska. The Monaco sounded really good! 

 

https://www.lfsys.co.uk/bassguitarproducts

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by mcnach

[mario_buoninfante]

One thing I think is often omitted is that when it comes to "70s-early 80s" reggae and dub, a lot of the time the bass was recorded straight into the mixing desk, no amp head/cabinet involved.

Just something to keep in mind when thinking about the reggae/dub bass sound.

[Marcus Cornall]

Thankyou all and sorry if its needed reiteration for me to get it.

There's a lot to it.

Thankyou Bill for the answers,and I realise you had already said how to work out the amp power.i didn't pick up it's fundamental (!) significance as there was a lot to take in from scratch.

 

Apologies Downunderwonder for not using proper terminology for things.

Actually, people who KNOW about this stuff may take certain fundamental things as obvious to those who don't,but they may not be- actually no one has ever told me that you can never put too little power into a cab!

 

Another ignorant presumption of mine that maybe if you didn't apply enough,it might not make the speaker operate ..erm...properly.

 

And yes it is an excellent learning thread for me and I'm deadly grateful.

 

Its just like the thing Bill said about 'the tube sound' coming from the power stage.- I have not seen that simple truth stated on any of the things I have read up on trying to understand it on my own.

 

Bill have you ever thought of writing "Bass Amps For Dummies"??!!!

 

Seriously man.I'd buy it immediately. 

 

I've already screenshot all advice and have started an amp notebook,and I'll continue learning.

 

Jrixn1 Thankyou- that is an interesting alternative and I hadnt thought of it at all.

I think I remember reading an interview with Jimmy Johnson saying that he did that at one stage.

 

Thankyou Mcnach that has put the cat among the pidgeons! The specs are great, and they're really reasonably priced. Could get a new one for the same as the BBII used i have seen

 

Hi Mario- yes it is worth keeping in mind. To be honest , I know there's no one sound/tone -there were and are hundreds, on all the classic records.

Being extremely careful  what terminology i use here-I just look for a useable fairly loud and round sound!

 

Thanks all.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Most recordings since the late 60s were direct to the board, because the speakers of the day were so poor. To the extent that amps were used in the studio it was as monitors. James Jamerson was known for using an Ampeg B15, but he almost always went direct, using the same Motown DI direct box now sold by Acme Audio. https://reverb.com/item/4394324-acme-audio-motown-d-i-wb-3-direct-input-box?bk=eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJqdGkiOiJmZDdmYTI4OC1lODRkLTRkOTktYTI4NS1kZmU3ZmRkODA1ZjYiLCJpYXQiOjE2NzY4OTk1ODAsInVzZXJfaWQiOiIiLCJzZXNzaW9uX2lkIjoiOWYzOTNiMWMtOGM3ZS00NmI4LTg4ZjgtMjgyMjBkZDQ4MDJiIiwiY29va2llX2lkIjoiZDI5ZDI5N2QtYjIzNS00NWQ3LWE4NDAtMDA2NTFmYjdiMjc0IiwicHJvZHVjdF9pZCI6IjQzOTQzMjQiLCJzb3VyY2UiOiJOT05FIn0.7kZRDnlmhcQeqDRlfrndRM4mKyYWa2Gu9Wg-jhwje7A

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

14 minutes ago, Marcus Cornall said:

 

Its just like the thing Bill said about 'the tube sound' coming from the power stage.- I have not seen that simple truth stated on any of the things I have read up on trying to understand it on my own.

 

 

Amp manufacturers, certainly those who don't sell all tube amps, won't tell you that. To some extent one can get some of that tube response by over-driving a tube in the pre-amp, but it won't come close to an over-driven tube output stage. It's not just the tone and response that's different, it's also the perceived volume created by compression. That perception is the reason for the never ending 'tube watts' debate.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Bill Fitzmaurice

[Dan Dare]

3 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

It's not just the tone and response that's different, it's also the perceived volume created by compression. That perception is the reason for the never ending 'tube watts' debate.

 

This. Tubes also tend to overdrive gracefully, whereas transistors do not. You can listen to a tube amp working hard and not be made aware that it is being overdriven. Push a transistor amp past its limits and it's rarely pleasant to hear.

[mcnach]

22 hours ago, Marcus Cornall said:

 

Thankyou Mcnach that has put the cat among the pidgeons! The specs are great, and they're really reasonably priced. Could get a new one for the same as the BBII used i have seen

 

 

If I didn't have a pair of Barefaced Two10 already, I'd be getting those. I may still end up getting one at some point in the future, as they work really nicely with a guitar modeller unit (Valeton GP-200 here). If you also play guitar, it's an added bonus as you could use it for both bass and guitar and sound very good with both.

 

I'll write about my experience with that LFSys Monaco cab in some detail sometime over the next few days, if you want to hear more (or feel free to PM me) 

 

 

[Reggaebass]

Hi Marcus how are you getting on with your search, this might be of interest to you 

 

[Marcus Cornall]

Hello everyone ,

 I thought I would update you about my amp and cab quest.

After MUCH deliberation I decided to get used things to extend into the best quality levels.

I found a used SVT 7 Pro for £550- not much over half the price of a new one.

I figured the 600w it gave out at 8 ohms had to be more than enough,and while I had been deciding a used BB and BT had both appeared for sale and gone !

 

So i thought I would get a PF115 either lf or he  and have a more trad cab sound.

The Pro would.be great for the 1x15 ,as I don't play that loudly, and I play clean so I wouldn't be pushing the amp anywhere near it's 600.And if another used BF ever came by, I'd be ready.

Also thought the tube preamp would be nice ,even though I know it doesn't behave like an amp with power tubes, but this is my first tube of any kind so it's still momentous for me.

And yes , the Pro is a Rev H 01 ,stamped on the board!

 

I just cursed myself for  not moving quickly enough on one of two used BBs that had been on ebay and reverb.

 

AND THEN...

 

Incredibly ,after just 48hrs of avid site monitoring , another BB II gen 3 came up used for £699  so I jumped on it straight away!

 

So after a couple of months of steep learning, I suddenly got the ideal rig within 24 hrs.  Total weight is 20kg amp and cab! Less than my current HEAD! 

Far smaller , more than twice as powerful,and with far far better lows  and tone altogether. 

I know the  BB will be BIG enough for any gig I will be doing in the near future , maybe ever. 

Now eagerly awaiting amp and cabs arrival!!!

 

I wanted to thank everyone who kindly contributed to this thread.i truly could  of have begun without the help I have recieved.

Particular thanks to Fretmeister,Bill Fitzmaurice, and Jazzyvee for the patience and interest. It wasn't wasted.

 

 

[Marcus Cornall]

And yes sorry I missed out Reggaebass! Thanks to you too!

[Reggaebass]

7 minutes ago, Marcus Cornall said:

And yes sorry I missed out Reggaebass! Thanks to you too!

Thanks Marcus, glad you got sorted 

[Marcus Cornall]

Hello all,

I know it's been a while, but I have closure on this issue at last, and i thought I'd share it..

The used SVT 7 pro had an issue.It hissed badly .

Having never had an amp that powerful,nor a FRFR cab, I didn't know if it was just something to expect,but I thought surely not?

But LO! Something rattled inside! 

It turned outntonbe a capacitor that had not just broken loose in transit,but had been MELTED somehow.

The guy I got it from was fully decent and honest and I'm sure he didn't know.

He used it with a tweeterless 1x15.

I got my money back.

I was put off another one.Purely because I didn't know for sure if they all hissed or if it was because of the melted cap,and I didn't have time to mess about sending another one back.

So.,a new SVT 7 Pro? £nearly 900.nearly double used prices. 

Alternatives?

I thought on the PF800 or even 500 .but due to the way the wattage works,I'd only be getting 400wnout of the 800, and 375 from the 500.

Was that 'enough' ? In the end ,how could I know?

I had a gig coming,and I decided I couldn't take the risk of being underpowered.

 

And besides anything else ,actually GETTING any new Ampeg above the pf500? 

10-12 weeks awaiting stock ,said all the major (and minor) suppliers!

Oh.well that also swayed me..towards...

The Peavey Minimega.

Only just over HALF the price of a new SVT 7,the same price as a used one...1000w giving 700 at 8 ohms..

Seemed perfect.

And my old head is a Peavey.

But could it do that fat Ampeg-like sound ?

Aside from the hiss,the 7 pro sounded FAT at home.i didn't get chance to try it at rehearsal volume. 

 

But I needed something,so took the risk With the Minimega.

At home where  I plugged it into the BF,I hadnt yet plugged a bass in ,because I wanted to hear if it hissed.

Even with the gain and vol up full,and the tweeter fully on,and the treble up..the thing was so silent I thought it was broken!

When I plugged a bass in (having turned the gain and vol back to home levels!) 

The weight,clarity and power were wonderful.

The immediacy of attack was incredible,and it allows so much more accuracy with the right hand touch because the amp and cab are so much more responsive than anything I've known.

 

And on the gig?

Amazing .!!!!!

The dispersion of the BB astonished me,and the band.You can hear it clearly off axis or yards away.

It was a hit with the band because they could feel me and hear me better onstage than the bass in the monitor,or front of house leakage of subs.

I loved the tone and yes  I got the one I heard in my head.

Not Ampeg of course,  but Ampeg-like fatness.

And the power was amazing too. 

Huge clean lows aplenty

(And everything else of course, but it being a Reggae gig and me liking a trad sound,I had some mids but not too many upper ones,and no tweeter)

And the MM is even smaller and lighter,so total rig weight around 18kg.

 

So ,thankyou to all of you for helping,and because of that help I now have an amp and cab I love ,that make the sound I wanted,and are so responsive as to give me the chance to really play it as i feel it,and that have all the power I will ever need

 

 

 

[Reggaebass]

Nice one Marcus, sounds great and glad you got sorted 

[Marcus Cornall]

7 hours ago, Reggaebass said:

Nice one Marcus, sounds great and glad you got sorted 

Thanks mate! Yeah it is BIG enough. 

The strange bit was, on the gig ,realising the essential difference from all my previous experience: the notes were all clean and the same no matter how much I turned it up, but I mean referring to the cab..I realised all other cabs had coloured the sound far more than  I thought..certain notes begin to boom out more than others or sound tonally different, because of cab resonances and such.

And its so weird being able to play at volume (or at all ,if I think about it) without that .,well.,limitation of other cabs.

At first I was disappointed to have lost it! But I thought it good to be ..erm..properly HiFi I suppose, and to enjoy getting used to what the bass should sound like uncoloured by cab limitations.

I can always get a pf 115 or 410 for those trad sounds.

But this is lighter,more responsive and I am enjoying the contrasting cleanliness and responsiveness instead.

The other paychoacoustic effect of that on me is that because that cab character is missing...my mind says it doesn't SOUND as loud! And I ended up turning it up quite a lot before realising how much I was putting out,as it was so unobtrusive (but inducing of kneecap vibration at close range!)

 

I am glad I got the kW amp though. It just kept de.ivering MORE low end no matter how much I turned it up.

Plenty of clean headroom even at gig volume is also a thing previously unknown for me. 

We don't have a gig u till August now and I'm itching to take it out again .