First ampless gig

[la bam]

So, after 30 years of gigging with an amp behind me and blaring guitars and monitors everywhere etc last night I did my first ampless gig.

 

None of us used amps (x2 guitars, x1 keys and me on bass) so the only noise apart from the pa was the drums.

 

We used in ears with our own mix.

 

It really was great. No need to worry about a bad mix or not hearing anything.

 

However, the main revelation which should have been totally obvious but wasnt, was that for years it's been the amps on stage that have been the problem on stage regarding hearing everyone, rather than being a necessity to hear everyone.

 

Everyone could hear the pa perfectly clear and could have easily got away without the in ears.

 

The in ears were perfect and I kind of had the 2/3ds in rather than fully as a reinforcement.

 

For years I've played with guitars at a million decibels and not been able to hear them at times, hardly ever heard keys and had bad monitor mixes.

 

But I'm now convinced it's the amps that were the problem. Just sound smashing around everywhere.

 

I'm from the totally hardcore you need a big old amp behind you and need to feel the bass and the wall of sound, but now weve took some time and done the ampless thing as a whole band I'd reluctantly have to change my mind.

 

The front of house mix was so much easier to do as well. Literally just have to worry about what's coming out of the front. No clash or bleed with amps, direction, or monitors etc.

 

Oh, and pack down took 15 mins and was so easy and lightweight with no compromise on sound.

[Len_derby]

Glad it’s gone well for you.

Two questions though. Firstly, was there any resistance to it in the band? It’s a common human trait to be wary of change but whenever I’ve suggested doing something similar there’s been the sound of some heels being dug-in.

Secondly, assuming you have a drummer, how have you handled that side of things? I’ve just re-read and seen that you do have a drummer. Did he/she have to rein it in?

Edited February 19, 2023 by Len_derby

[nilorius]

I wish i will had that one in carrier.

[Waddo Soqable]

39 minutes ago, nilorius said:

I wish i will had that one in carrier.

What like these...? 

[Waddo Soqable]

Seriously, sounds great... Could open up lots of possibilities to play places that otherwise wouldn't put on bands at all, and certainly not loud amplified stuff.. 

[Dad3353]

53 minutes ago, nilorius said:

I wish i will had that one in carrier.

 

13 minutes ago, Waddo Soqable said:

What like these...? ...

 

I read it as 'I wish I had had this during my career.' 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Dad3353

[Waddo Soqable]

13 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

 

 

I read it as 'I wish I had had this during my career.' 

Ah.. You'll have to be the interpreter then 👍

[Dad3353]

23 minutes ago, Waddo Soqable said:

Ah.. You'll have to be the interpreter then 👍

 

Be careful what you wish for. 

[nilorius]

1 hour ago, Waddo Soqable said:

What like these...? 

You allready used these ?

[Waddo Soqable]

19 minutes ago, nilorius said:

You allready used these ?

All the time! 

[nilorius]

1 minute ago, Waddo Soqable said:

All the time! 

"Good boy" !

[la bam]

4 hours ago, Len_derby said:

Glad it’s gone well for you.

Two questions though. Firstly, was there any resistance to it in the band? It’s a common human trait to be wary of change but whenever I’ve suggested doing something similar there’s been the sound of some heels being dug-in.

Secondly, assuming you have a drummer, how have you handled that side of things? I’ve just re-read and seen that you do have a drummer. Did he/she have to rein it in?

 

We were quite lucky that we have a keyboardist and they seem more receptive than guitarists in going in ears. Then the guitarist bought a helix, then the other one did, so it seemed a natural progression. We started plugging into the practice rooms pa rather than using the supplied amps and decided to give the whole thing a try. No resistance, a bit of hesitancy, but we'll be fully on it at every gig soon.

 

Drum wise all we did is supply the drummer with a small wedge monitor from the thru on the pa so he had a full house mix and he was very happy.

[la bam]

5 hours ago, Waddo Soqable said:

Seriously, sounds great... Could open up lots of possibilities to play places that otherwise wouldn't put on bands at all, and certainly not loud amplified stuff.. 

 

Yep, if a drummer even went digital drums, you could play anywhere really. No acoustic noise.

[BigRedX]

One of the bands I play with made the decision to completely ditch the backline last year. Since the lineup is just Synth, Bass VI and Vocals with the drums and second synth player being performed by computer it was a fairly easy decision to make. It also looks as though we'll be on IEMs before the end of this year.

[greentext]

glad to hear you had a good experience, ive always been totally against it for me as i don’t know how id feel about being in such a bubble and unconnected to the crowd, I play a lot of punk and hardcore shows so being in the room is a much of the experience as the music, people screaming and throwing themselves off stage is what its all about.

 

BUT there is another part of me that id really enjoy to be able to analyse my bass playing using in ears. Im not there yet but i think ill get there one day i will get into it

Also if you feel like you arent getting anything back audience noise wise, can always put a mic on stage facing out and blend some of the crowd noise into the IEM mix so your not in the bubble so much, something I saw Adam Nealy doing and thought it was genius (might already be doing it), thanks for sharing 🤘

[Muppet]

36 minutes ago, greentext said:

ive always been totally against it for me as i don’t know how id feel about being in such a bubble and unconnected to the crowd

If you’ve not tried it how do you know you’re in a bubble and unconnected?  We play with no back line and electronic drums and as you point out, a couple of well placed condenser mics give all the audience feedback you need.  Check out the IEM bible thread for all the info youll ever need.  You don’t even need to get rid of your amps if you’d rather not…

[greentext]

2 minutes ago, Muppet said:

If you’ve not tried it how do you know you’re in a bubble and unconnected?

It took me long enough to just get used to ear protection but I have mastered that now with some good quality ones. I just don't know if it would be for me for the money i'd have to invest and all that, like i said maybe one day but im not all the way there yet. I know a lot of drummers that use and love them but yh we will see. 

[la bam]

3 hours ago, greentext said:

glad to hear you had a good experience, ive always been totally against it for me as i don’t know how id feel about being in such a bubble and unconnected to the crowd, I play a lot of punk and hardcore shows so being in the room is a much of the experience as the music, people screaming and throwing themselves off stage is what its all about.

 

BUT there is another part of me that id really enjoy to be able to analyse my bass playing using in ears. Im not there yet but i think ill get there one day i will get into it

Also if you feel like you arent getting anything back audience noise wise, can always put a mic on stage facing out and blend some of the crowd noise into the IEM mix so your not in the bubble so much, something I saw Adam Nealy doing and thought it was genius (might already be doing it), thanks for sharing 🤘

 

That was a big difference - I'd tried in ears before but with amps on stage, so I'd put the items right in and not only had a terrible mush monitor mix, but I felt isolated from everyone in the room.

 

This time the stage was that clear sounding, I used the iems not quite fully in, so I had a good feel of the room too.

[Phil Starr]

20 hours ago, la bam said:

So, after 30 years of gigging with an amp behind me and blaring guitars and monitors everywhere etc last night I did my first ampless gig.

 

None of us used amps (x2 guitars, x1 keys and me on bass) so the only noise apart from the pa was the drums.

 

We used in ears with our own mix.

 

It really was great. No need to worry about a bad mix or not hearing anything.

 

However, the main revelation which should have been totally obvious but wasnt, was that for years it's been the amps on stage that have been the problem on stage regarding hearing everyone, rather than being a necessity to hear everyone.

 

Everyone could hear the pa perfectly clear and could have easily got away without the in ears.

 

The in ears were perfect and I kind of had the 2/3ds in rather than fully as a reinforcement.

 

For years I've played with guitars at a million decibels and not been able to hear them at times, hardly ever heard keys and had bad monitor mixes.

 

But I'm now convinced it's the amps that were the problem. Just sound smashing around everywhere.

 

I'm from the totally hardcore you need a big old amp behind you and need to feel the bass and the wall of sound, but now weve took some time and done the ampless thing as a whole band I'd reluctantly have to change my mind.

 

The front of house mix was so much easier to do as well. Literally just have to worry about what's coming out of the front. No clash or bleed with amps, direction, or monitors etc.

 

Oh, and pack down took 15 mins and was so easy and lightweight with no compromise on sound.

Congratulations, coincidentally we did our first completely in-ears gig a couple of weeks ago and we've been doing rehearsals with only in ears for a couple of months. We've kind of gently evolved in that direction.

 

Every word here exactly reflects our experience and the critical thing is being able to properly hear each other and yourself. You can just play with more confidence and freedom, it's literally a revelation. the killer line though is:

 

"However, the main revelation which should have been totally obvious but wasnt, was that for years it's been the amps on stage that have been the problem on stage regarding hearing everyone, rather than being a necessity to hear everyone.....But I'm now convinced it's the amps that were the problem. Just sound smashing around everywhere."

[Phil Starr]

Confession time, I'm losing my hearing, I've significant loss right down to 6kHz with some frequencies worse than others. I can still follow normal conversations and enjoy music but in noisy environments I can only follow someone if I can see them and only one person at a time. If I lose much more I'm going to be genuinely isolated from my friends and I'm going to have to give up playing altogether because I won't be able to hear what they are playing.

 

All this talk about in-ears being isolating, that feeling lasts about 30 mins, then you adapt, you can still see the audience, still smile at the friendly couple in the third row. Any fleeting sense of isolation soon passes and will be nothing to the isolation you will feel when that thumping back line and trouser flapping bass finally rob you of the ability to year your friends and loved ones. 

[BigRedX]

In the days when I did play in a noisy band with boisterous audiences I spent most of the time trying to tune them out (especially when they all decided to bounce up and down out of time with the drums). IEMs would have been more useful than ever back then. It has always been my rather harsh opinion that if you need "trouser flapping" sound levels or audience feedback to get the appropriate level of "excitement" as a musician, then the songs you are play probably aren't good enough.

[dmccombe7]

Good to hear this as our male singer in the Glam covers band uses IE plus our drummer is now using in ears altho his are hard wired to a small unit he has at his side (dont know the details of it) 

Drummer has suggested we look into this more as he finds it a revelation that he can now hear his backing vocals far more clearly.

We are at an early stage with it but i definitely like the idea altho my main concern is limiting feedback to the ear pieces but from what i've read IE systems reduce the cause of feedback that generally comes from monitor systems.

I know @EBS_freak has a thread running on this and i'm off to read and send a copy to our drummer / band to let them see what its all about.

Dave 

[stewblack]

I've only done it once. If I hadn't had the backbeat it would have been awful. useful for backing vocals but visually and as a playing experience it was hollow.

Would I do it again? Sure, if I'm getting paid I'd play in a tutu riding a unicycle, but it's not my preference.

[dmccombe7]

1 hour ago, stewblack said:

I've only done it once. If I hadn't had the backbeat it would have been awful. useful for backing vocals but visually and as a playing experience it was hollow.

Would I do it again? Sure, if I'm getting paid I'd play in a tutu riding a unicycle, but it's not my preference.

Tutu and unicycle on stage isn't all its cracked up to be. Its drafty for one thing. 

Dave

[cheddatom]

I get the ampless/in-ear thing and it obviously works for loads of people. One potential drawback I can see is feedback. Some feedback is desirable, especially when playing lead guitar. How do you get feedback with no monitor or amp?