alexclaber Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 I see your point. As an engineer I am looked down upon by real scientists as one of those people that gets their hands dirty yet still treated with suspicion by the tabloid press as one of those boffins. If my relatively shallow understanding of economics is comparable there's a whole load of silly language (bulls, bears, doves, hawks, etc) that seems to exist just to obfuscate the situation. Engineers prefer to call a spade a spade fortunately. I think the playing stuff just because you can rather than because it sounds good is often tied to immaturity, a bit like the way precocious children behave. And authentically Spinal Tap-esque guitarists act... Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 [sidetrack] However jargon is incredibly useful in context. It's only when trying to communicate ideas to people outside the knowledge that more common language is needed. Eg on here it's perfectly acceptable to say "the J neck PUP is connected to the jack using CTS pots and an orange sprague cap" .. That means something to most of us, means nothing at all to people outwith the inner sanctum of bass players ... [/sidetrack] Meanwhile groove is about listening and relaxing and having some idea of what fits. It's also about luck. No doubt another bass player with as much skill and groove as the 66bassman would have crashed and burned in that situation if he'd not listened or got on with the drummer ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='473988' date='Apr 28 2009, 09:25 AM']I see your point. As an engineer I am looked down upon by real scientists as one of those people that gets their hands dirty yet still treated with suspicion by the tabloid press as one of those boffins. If my relatively shallow understanding of economics is comparable there's a whole load of silly language (bulls, bears, doves, hawks, etc) that seems to exist just to obfuscate the situation. Engineers prefer to call a spade a spade fortunately. I think the playing stuff just because you can rather than because it sounds good is often tied to immaturity, a bit like the way precocious children behave. And authentically Spinal Tap-esque guitarists act... Alex[/quote] I thought Engineer was a posh word for Mechanic though..... and Scientist a modern word for Witch.... :ph34r: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urb Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 [quote name='Beedster' post='473958' date='Apr 28 2009, 08:22 AM']And that might be the key Homer. I get more positive comments about my bass playing now (mostly root notes TBH) than I ever did when I was trying to be Flea or Jaco. Like I said above, it's not about being a good technician of the bass (all those dudes on YouTube), but about playing notes that fit the music. Think of your notes as being words; we all hate those guys who use five words when one would suffice (politicians & scientists), or who use long and overly complex words when a short simple word would be just as effective (politicians and scientists. In fact, think any Bowie interview). However, it's not as easy as you'd think, simplicity is a skill. It takes a lot of skill to express an idea simply, whether it's a verbal idea or a sonic idea, and it's perhaps not technical skills you need to learn, but the skill of knowing what you want to say (musically speaking) and being able to say it in the simplest terms (as you say above "it was so understated but so right"). One of my all time favourite tracks is everyday people by Sly and the Family Stone. How many bass notes? ONE! How good a groove? AWESOME. The points above about covers bands are also spot on, get yourself in an originals band mate, or at least, have some fun creating some original lines for the covers. It's music, there's no rule that says "If we're playing Need Your Love So Bad, you've gotta play the bassline McVie played". Or if your band do have that rule, challenge it Chris[/quote] Hey Chris, many good points well made in this thread, and in particular your one about thinking too much before you do something... In a nutshell this translates as 'trust your instincts' and in musical terms, especially with improvising, it's all about that and listening to what's going on with the music your are playing. The wonderful thing about the bass (guitar or upright) is that its role in the band can influence so much of what's going on, in any genre, not just jazz or funk, or blues or whatever. The smallest change in pulse, doubling up quarter notes to eighths, or leaving notes out, playing louder, softer, octaves, emphasising the minor or major tonality of the key, playing chromatic notes... the list of possibilities are endless, and it's nothing to do with playing fast or flashy, it's about fully engaging with the MUSIC, not the bass. There's tons of great advice in this thread on how to expand your vocabulary and look in the theory and technique forum as there are a load of great threads about getting more MUSIC into you bass playing, and not more bass playing into your music Hope that makes sense and don't, whatever you do stop trying to learn new stuff... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 (edited) Just read about this in BGM: Oneida James: Groove Mastery £12 from Amazon .. [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Oneida-James-Groove-Mastery-Bassists/dp/B00144B49C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=miscellaneous&qid=1240995838&sr=8-1"]Here[/url] May be a good investment? Edited April 29, 2009 by OldGit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 I wouldn't be disheartened by it, I started getting into a jam session at a local pub when I was between bands. Maybe the one I do is a bit different to yours but it mostly comprises of a house band doing a half hour warm up set then people getting together and playing something they think they all know. With basic blues I've just winged it and you sound like you're comfortable with blues anyway but there are far better players than me who I've seen get up and make a total cock of what they were playing because they didn't know the song half as well as they thought. I'd be surprised if the guy you were impressed by just got up and played complex jazz/funk stuff with absolutely no prior knowledge of any of the songs if they weren't reasonably repeptitive chord sequences. There's a lot of smoke and mirrors goes on with these things. I've seen people get up and *appear* to do impromtu performances which sound slick but i know for a fact they've spent the last half hour discussing it over a pint outside as to what the chords were etc. These days I usually email the guy I've played with recently and ask him what he wants to do and then I try to get a reasonable version of it in my head in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 [quote name='urb' post='474590' date='Apr 28 2009, 09:08 PM'].. getting more MUSIC into your bass playing, and not more bass playing into your music [/quote] Hi Mike Probably the most effective 15 words I've ever heard about bass playing ...and given that it was written using non-technical language using few words (and none of more than two syllables), and that it delivered a powerful message, the sentence itself stands as a metaphor for its subject matter Nice one Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urb Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 [quote name='Beedster' post='474865' date='Apr 29 2009, 10:39 AM']Hi Mike Probably the most effective 15 words I've ever heard about bass playing ...and given that it was written using non-technical language using few words (and none of more than two syllables), and that it delivered a powerful message, the sentence itself stands as a metaphor for its subject matter Nice one Chris[/quote] Cheers Chris - simplicity - now that's complicated...! Just found this little clip of Wooten and Carter Beauford laying down some blues... it's sounds wicked: Another thing to try is let the music tell YOU what to play, so instead of trying to cram all your stock licks/bass lines into a song/jam - let the feel of the drums, guitar, keys whatever decide what notes you play - if this is too much to try on a full on jam session why not get together with some mates, plug in and see what happens - and don't talk about it beforehand - just listen to each other play... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBunny Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 [quote name='Beedster' post='473958' date='Apr 28 2009, 08:22 AM']And that might be the key Homer. I get more positive comments about my bass playing now (mostly root notes TBH) than I ever did when I was trying to be Flea or Jaco. Chris[/quote] Now that is something I can really relate to and is oh so true. When switching from Guitar to bass, I started by trying to cram in as many notes as I could, ie: playing bass like a guitarist. Reading an article by a well-respected Bass Player sorted that and 2 comments have stuck with me ever since: "Think of what you want to play and half it!" "It is the silence between the nates that make the notes" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBunny Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 [quote name='urb' post='474925' date='Apr 29 2009, 11:40 AM']Cheers Chris - simplicity - now that's complicated...! Just found this little clip of Wooten and Carter Beauford laying down some blues... it's sounds wicked: Another thing to try is let the music tell YOU what to play, so instead of trying to cram all your stock licks/bass lines into a song/jam - let the feel of the drums, guitar, keys whatever decide what notes you play - if this is too much to try on a full on jam session why not get together with some mates, plug in and see what happens - and don't talk about it beforehand - just listen to each other play... Mike[/quote] I must admit to having a great deal of time for Victor Wooten and I love his approach and philosophy. I got hold of his Groove Workshop and it really does put the importance of Groove into context. He did a great demonstration in front of his 6 students of how "wrong notes played in the groove" don't sound wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigman Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 I can't play for sh*t. It's never really bothered me. I play in a band which doesn't require that I can play complex stuff. I still enjoy playing to the 600odd that pay to see us but I would never cut it on open mic night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tayste_2000 Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 I fancy coming to the next one of these, any idea when it next is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceguyhomer Posted May 8, 2009 Author Share Posted May 8, 2009 I'll put a post up Steve this weekend - have to find out the date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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