Band Splits

[MacDaddy]

1 hour ago, uk_lefty said:

Old bands was always an equal split unless we were doing a wedding or function where one of the guitarists set up the PA and stayed on as a DJ after the set, we'd give him a larger share even though he was embarrassed to take it. 

Present band splits cash as follows: 50% of fee goes into the band kitty to pay for cables, PA kit, etc. The other 50% gets saved up until it's a decent enough amount to bother sharing out. All gig fees are displayed in the band calendar so you can keep track of it. Originally I thought the kitty was excessive but... I joined in December 2001, in May 2002 we played in Amsterdam. Gigs already played paid for all four of us to go on the Eurostar, two nights in a hotel and ALL food and drink while we were there. Couldn't complain with that! 

 

Who owns the PA? If you left would you be paid your share of it? 

[steantval]

I think it’s pretty clear from the responses on this thread, they are taking you for a mug.

 

The solution is to have a frank discussion and state it’s equal splits going forwards or you walk.

[uk_lefty]

20 minutes ago, MacDaddy said:

 

Who owns the PA? If you left would you be paid your share of it? 

The PA is owned by the band. The band had been going for nearly 10yrs before I joined. If I leave the band I don't take anything with me. I'm cool with that. 

 

I like it this way. If in a band someone said "right guys, I need £325 off each of you to buy some PA kit..." I wouldn't be too happy, but I've joined something established and we build up a kitty to upgrade and maintain gear. I've also had a few sets of strings paid for out of the kitty and once a year they're happy to pay to send my bass off for setups etc. At cost to the band... All this was explained to me when I joined so I'd be a bit silly to want to take out more than was agreed.

[pbasspecial]

52 minutes ago, Mykesbass said:

I did a gig and only knew the band had been paid £700 as the best man asked me about paying as I arrived. I got £100 as part of a 4 piece. Queried it with BL and never got asked to do another gig. 

I personally think deps should probably get paid a little bit extra as they have had to spend some extra time learning new songs for the gig usually. 

[ossyrocks]

Always equal in bands that I have run myself. However, if I needed a dep for someone in the band on occasion, I would probably give them more after clearing it with the other members of the band.

 

I have done gigs where every musician on the night gets £100 a man, but the band leader took vastly more. But it was more like a job, and to be fair, all expenses, travel and accommodation would be covered on top, even food.

In that situation, the band leader owned the van, all the gear, and even the amps I was using. Plus all this was known about upfront. 
 

Rob

[bassbiscuits]

I don't think it's absolute that everyone in a band is paid equally - depending on the circumstances if you're an occasional hired hand rather than putting money into the upkeep of the band, if you're getting extra petrol money etc.

 

What I do think is essential is honesty and openness over how much you are getting paid.

 

On one hand if you've accepted the amount of money you've been offered for a gig, it shouldn't matter what someone else is getting (I'm thinking of "unequal" situations, such as being part of a "name act's" backing band). 

 

But you wouldn't expect jam night mates, contributing equal amounts of effort in a long-running arrangement, to regularly be pocketing more money and not telling you.

 

I'd want to hear them justify their reasons, or forget it.

[LewisK1975]

15 minutes ago, bassbiscuits said:

I don't think it's absolute that everyone in a band is paid equally - depending on the circumstances if you're an occasional hired hand rather than putting money into the upkeep of the band, if you're getting extra petrol money etc.

 

What I do think is essential is honesty and openness over how much you are getting paid.

 

On one hand if you've accepted the amount of money you've been offered for a gig, it shouldn't matter what someone else is getting (I'm thinking of "unequal" situations, such as being part of a "name act's" backing band). 

 

But you wouldn't expect jam night mates, contributing equal amounts of effort in a long-running arrangement, to regularly be pocketing more money and not telling you.

 

I'd want to hear them justify their reasons, or forget it.

This is probably overall the most complete and correct answer to the OP question! YMMV!

[Dan Dare]

In a band where everyone is an equal contributor (so excluding those which are essentially backing bands for someone, pickup bands, those with a leader who gets all the work, provides the PA and so on, for example), the best way I've found is for the following to be deducted and paid from the gig fee before it's shared out:

 

Reasonable travel and out of pocket expenses.

Anyone contributing jointly-used equipment is paid an agreed sum for its use. In bands I play in, for example, I supply a PA and monitors that cost me around £10k in total, so I charge a small amount for them to use it. If people aren't happy about that, I'm OK with their finding an alternative. It means less work for me and less to carry, set up, etc.

Agents' fee, etc.

 

Once that's deducted, divide the remainder equally. It's important for it to be agreed and clear from the start how fees are to be divided.

 

 

[dudewheresmybass]

Every band I work with is a straight split - even though I often provide PA, lights and do the majority of the booking.

 

I don't see why someone should earn any more than everyone else unless you are hired as a 'session type' player for an agreed fee

[Al Krow]

13 minutes ago, dudewheresmybass said:

Every band I work with is a straight split - even though I often provide PA, lights and do the majority of the booking.

 

I don't see why someone should earn any more than everyone else unless you are hired as a 'session type' player for an agreed fee

 

I mean I take the exact same approach as you with all the bands I'm in.

However, I think you've essentially asked the exact right question: "why should someone earn any more than everyone else unless you are hired as a 'session type' player for an agreed fee?" 

How about precisely if they are putting in more work than everyone else (e.g. providing PA, lights and do the majority of the booking). Should they be expected to do that extra work for free? If so, aren't they the ones being exploited by their bandmates?

Edited March 9, 2023 by Al Krow

[dudewheresmybass]

5 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

 

I mean I take the exact same approach as you with all the bands I'm in.

However, I think you've essentially asked the exact right question: "why should someone earn any more than everyone else unless you are hired as a 'session type' player for an agreed fee?" 

How about precisely if they are putting in more work than everyone else (e.g. providing PA, lights and do the majority of the booking). Should they be expected to do that extra work for free? If so, aren't they the ones being exploited by their bandmates?

perhaps, but equally I don't earn if I have no one else to perform alongside. 

 

[Dan Dare]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

How about precisely if they are putting in more work than everyone else (e.g. providing PA, lights and do the majority of the booking). Should they be expected to do that extra work for free? If so, aren't they the ones being exploited by their bandmates?

 

Amen to this. I've encountered a number of musicians who appear to believe that "stuff just happens" -  PA, lights, bookings, etc just materalise out of the ether. They don't seem to consider that the money to pay for the kit had to be earned. Perhaps their mums and dads bought them everything and they never had to worry where it came from. That was certainly true of one keyboard player I used to know. Great player, but expected everything on a silver platter.

 

58 minutes ago, dudewheresmybass said:

perhaps, but equally I don't earn if I have no one else to perform alongside.

 

And they don't earn if nobody can hear or see them because there's no PA and no lights. You can turn out for any band because you've made the effort to kit yourself out. What are they going to do without your gear? They will have to buy their own or hire. Either way, it's going to cost them, so they may as well give you a few bob to use yours. Don't under-sell yourself. You've invested time, effort and money into acquiring your gear. Unless you're a hopeless player (which I'm sure you're not), you don't need to buy your way into a band.

[scalpy]

We were doing the equal split thing but it caused issues. The one singer owns the Pa, the other (my wife) does all the band management stuff, our old guitarist had the rehearsal space, the drummer travelled further, I do all the arrangements and musical direction etc. Problems occurred though with deposits for gigs and full payments ‘resting’ in my wife’s personal account, and attaching value to who did what. This wasn’t helped by the fact some members of the band became legends in their own lunchtimes and were somewhat less than 100% reliable on the music front, which I couldn’t tolerate as we’re a function band asking for a fair whack. 

 

So the singers and myself formed a limited company and now hire the rest of the band for each gig. We explained to the original members we couldn’t be so inconsistent and those who needed to got the message and left. It sounds harsh but we’ve had greater stability in the line up as a result, play better quality gigs and the performances are reliable. Some gigs we don’t make as much money as the ‘players’ but overall it’s working out nicely. 

[meterman]

7 hours ago, pbasspecial said:

I wondered what everyone’s thoughts are on how bands split the money they make from gigs and jam nights, etc?

I recently walked away from one band that I played with for the last 6 years when I realised that he singer/guitarist had been creaming off the top for quite a while. We weren't even gigging all the time and he had a full time job so it’s not like he desperately needed an extra £50 every 3 months! He lost a decent bass player over it. 

So, I just discovered last night that the jam night I’ve been playing at for the last 3-4 years haven’t been splitting it equally either. The singer and guitarist (2 people) have each been getting £75 whilst myself and the drummer have been given £50 each. I’ve recently been picking up and dropping off the singer and his gear in my car too!
The drummer and I play for 80% of the evening, we are really good musicians, backing any and every type of musician, doing songs we don’t always know  whilst the other 2 open the jam and close the jam with 3 songs per set, drinking beer and smoking fags outside.   They aren’t as strong as us musically either.  Without sounding arrogant, they are lucky to have us in the house band. 
Am I wrong to be annoyed by this?!

I enjoy the evening and thought of myself as friends with the other 2 but it now feels very sneaky. I’m naturally very fair and transparent as a person and believe in financially splitting things equally. I’m guessing this is not the case with all musicians!
I don’t want to walk away but it sticks in my throat and feels like people are taking the P. 
What do you guys/gals think?

I reckon you should just have done with it and shoot them, and replace them with musicians who’ll be happy to play for £25 less per gig than you and the drummer.

 

If that seems a bit harsh to you then you could always pay the replacement musicians £20 less per gig? Just brainstorming here, I’m not actually sure what the right answer is. Or maybe don’t shoot them, just set the dogs on them? Hard to know.

[Graham]

In ours the singer takes a bigger cut, but he:

 

Books every gig and liases with the client/venue

 

Owns, sets up and runs the PA and lights

 

Arrives earlier to set up the PA, while I normally stay to help break it down, I could in principal leave ten minutes after the last note is played

 

Is the only member who plays every gig, so finds deps for the rest of us

 

Writes and supplies the set list

 

I'm more than happy for him to take  a bigger cut, so I don't have to deal with any of the above

 

[fleabag]

Some members getting more moolah, but keeping quiet about,  is not the way to do it.  That's just plain sneaky.

 

AS someone said earlier, they may have a good reason, but if the reason was that good, they'd tell you why and keep things open and honest.

They haven't done this.  It's being done behind your back. W@nkers.  That's  IMO of course.

 

I'd have a quiet chat with your mate the drummer,  be sneaky and hustle him away, and dont tell the greedy bustards.  See how they like that,  when they discover you're both AWOL

and have set up your own gig/jams

[Burns-bass]

I bought the PA, pay for storage, set it up and don’t drink at the gigs we do and we still split it because we sat down like grown ups and discussed it.

 

Ive worked with bands before where I received a few for the gig which was less than the split, but the singer booked the gigs, paid for the rehearsals and basically did everything. This was absolutely fair to me. 
 

I reckon you should have a chat and ask what’s happening. Don’t drink and don’t get personal, just ask the question.

[Buddster]

I think what the OP has explained is very out of order, and right to be annoyed. 

 

We're a 4 piece, we all work, so any money we make from a gig goes towards a curry night the week after instead of a rehearsal. A good way to talk over the gig. 

[rOB]

In my opinion, two excellent points have been raised above. 

 

1- If equal effort is put in then equal pay seems fair. However work such as writing, arranging, management, booking, equipment, transport etc is often unequal in my experience.

 

2- Openness. Full transparency about who is paid what and why seems like the adult, mature thing to do.

 

[pbasspecial]

Thanks for all your advice, both serious and funny ones. 

Just to be super clear. We are not a band as it’s a jam night band but the singer and guitarist are actually in one together, which I have depped  for occasionally. The drummer and I play in a few different projects and are probably the best bassist and drummer in our area. 
 

Glad I feel vindicated by you guys. Thanks!

[TimR]

In a previous band I 'hired' the PA to the band for the gigs. 

 

PAs are hard work to deal with, transport, maintain and store. It's not just owning something and letting people use it. 

 

The drummer got fed up with the arrangement and decided he'd own the PA. Fine. We paid him instead. But then he started asking people to store bits of it because he didn't have enough room and for people to drive to his house to bring bits to gigs because he had to fit drums in his car. 

 

Booking gigs is a ballache as well. 

 

I'm happy to take the money that the band leader is offering for the gig if it means I just turn up with my gear, play and go home. I'll carry some gear and help set up. But means I don't spend an extra hour loading my car and unloading it or put up with a garage full of gear that's mainly used by everyone else. I've been there and done that. 

 

It should be up front what people are getting paid for though. In my day job no one gets paid the same. 

Edited March 9, 2023 by TimR

[martin8708]

I played in a duo for 10 years with a Singer/ guitarist with me on bass / backing vocals .

He took two thirds of the gig money , but he was an established musician who had a diary full of gigs and he owned the PA.

I was perfectly happy with this as my playing improved dramatically, played some great gigs , met loads of other musicians , so getting paid less was no big deal .

If I was a more accomplished bass player , I would have asked for more money .

[Len_derby]

10 hours ago, pbasspecial said:

Thanks for all your advice, both serious and funny ones. 

Just to be super clear. We are not a band as it’s a jam night band but the singer and guitarist are actually in one together, which I have depped  for occasionally. The drummer and I play in a few different projects and are probably the best bassist and drummer in our area. 
 

Glad I feel vindicated by you guys. Thanks!

Hope it all turns out well for you and that you and the drummer move on to better things.

I think the general consensus here as been; most people can accept some inequality of reward if there’s a reason for it, but secretive and underhand differentials (especially in an ongoing arrangement) are a no-no.

 

If the two rob-dogs see the light and offer to spilt the money fairly from now on, don’t forget to ask for back-pay 😀

[Crusoe]

*The Smiths have entered the chat*

[fretmeister]

I'd expect the regular members of a covers band to get an equal split after the expenses have been covered.

 

But I'd expect a dep to get more as they are filling in, often at short notice to save a gig.