FRFR Speaker Choice - what are you using??

[carlsim]

Hi to all those using an FRFR setup... I need to go that way with the way my gigs are going. I'm constantly standing next to my amp and using IEMs so it makes monitoring very difficult. I need something floor based. Some years ago I had a QSC K10.2 and regret selling it to go back to an amp - the band leader at the time 'insisted' I had a bass amp as backline pushing sound forward (no PA support...)

Anyway... I would really like specific speaker recommendations... I noticed that the QSCs have gone up massively in price - i think i paid about £600 some years ago!

Anyway - I don't have a specific budget in my head, but something around the 5-600 mark - maybe some more if the recommendations are there... what are you using and how do you find it? Is the Headrush stuff worth looking at?

I don't want this thread to be a ton of 'I don't get this FRFR nonsense' comments - real world experience with different speakers would be appreciated!

Thanks everyone!  

[warwickhunt]

There's a whole thread on FRFR somewhere if you have a look, it'll save you waiting for everyone who posted on that, posting on here!    

 

[carlsim]

A did have a scroll through but it is a digression of opinions and lots of back and forth of why? pros / cons etc. I was hoping to try and save myself some time going through 10+ pages of comments... it's no biggie if people don't reply though. I can always have another go through...

[lemmywinks]

Crikey just seen the price of used K10.2, they were going for around £350-£400 on eBay not so long ago.

 

I'll be moving mine on in the not too distant future once I can sort a loaner cab out for the odd gig where I can't use IEMs.

[jezzaboy]

I use an RCF 715 mark 4. I have used it for monitoring on a large stage and use it in small pub gigs as my main bass amp. On these pub gigs, it keeps up with 2 Marshalls and a loud drummer.  Great bit of quality kit.

[Baloney Balderdash]

If weight is no issue the The Box PA 502 passive FRFR PA speaker, featuring a 15" mids driver/woofer and a 1.7" high mids/high frequency tweeter is absolutely amazing, and not just for the price.

 

Sounds really clear, well defined, articulate and well balanced, and with a tight but impressive low frequency response that is better than anything else in that price class, and honestly most higher end PA speakers as well, regardless of price.

 

Frequency response:

45 Hz … 18 kHz (–3 dB)

35 Hz … 20 kHz (–10 dB)

 

Which is better low end response than even most dedicated bass cabs, even most higher end ones.

 

Pretty decent sensitivity too, 96dB @ 1W/1m, which seems about average of what one can expect from a speaker/cab with that kind of exceptional low end response

 

Just astonishing great value.

 

As said though the downside is that they are quite heavy (25.5 kg (~56.22 lbs)), and that they can only handle 300W RMS (1200W peak).

 

I think it's an exclusive Thomann brand.

 

https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_box_pa502_fullrangesystem.htm

 

Comes in an active version too, the The Box PA 502A.

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[carlsim]

30 minutes ago, lemmywinks said:

Crikey just seen the price of used K10.2, they were going for around £350-£400 on eBay not so long ago.

 

I'll be moving mine on in the not too distant future once I can sort a loaner cab out for the odd gig where I can't use IEMs.

Does that mean you might be selling 'very' soon??

[lemmywinks]

15 minutes ago, carlsim said:

Does that mean you might be selling 'very' soon??

 

Yeah still have the original box so shouldn't be a problem. Also has the QSC carry bag and locking IEC cable etc.

[carlsim]

42 minutes ago, jezzaboy said:

I use an RCF 715 mark 4. I have used it for monitoring on a large stage and use it in small pub gigs as my main bass amp. On these pub gigs, it keeps up with 2 Marshalls and a loud drummer.  Great bit of quality kit.

I was looking at one of these rather than it’s big 735 brother… I only intend to use it mainly as a bass monitor… so it would do a good job here??

[carlsim]

Just now, lemmywinks said:

 

Yeah still have the original box so shouldn't be a problem. Also has the QSC carry bag and locking IEC cable etc.

Cool…. Let me know if you decide to!

[Frank Blank]

I use a QSC K12.2, can't fault it. They don't seem to come up S/H very often. Superb bit of kit, I use it in exactly the manner you want to.

[Baloney Balderdash]

5 hours ago, carlsim said:

I was looking at one of these rather than it’s big 735 brother… I only intend to use it mainly as a bass monitor… so it would do a good job here??

 

5 hours ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

If weight is no issue the The Box PA 502 passive FRFR PA speaker, featuring a 15" mids driver/woofer and a 1.7" high mids/high frequency tweeter is absolutely amazing, and not just for the price.

 

Sounds really clear, well defined, articulate and well balanced, and with a tight but impressive low frequency response that is better than anything else in that price class, and honestly most higher end PA speakers as well, regardless of price.

 

Frequency response:

45 Hz … 18 kHz (–3 dB)

35 Hz … 20 kHz (–10 dB)

 

Which is better low end response than even most dedicated bass cabs, even most higher end ones.

 

Pretty decent sensitivity too, 96dB @ 1W/1m, which seems about average of what one can expect from a speaker/cab with that kind of exceptional low end response

 

Just astonishing great value.

 

As said though the downside is that they are quite heavy (25.5 kg (~56.22 lbs)), and that they can only handle 300W RMS (1200W peak).

 

I think it's an exclusive Thomann brand.

 

https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_box_pa502_fullrangesystem.htm

 

Comes in an active version too, the The Box PA 502A.

 

£219

 

£299 for the active version.

 

Probably not if size and weight is an issue though...

 

 

Edit!!!: Seems like I misunderstood the quoted reply, never mind, however I can still warmly recommend the The Box PA 502, as a cheaper, but genuinely great, alternative, if weight is no issue that is. 

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash
Misunderstanding

[Paul S]

I have an RCF ART-732A for home use or if I need some backline/monitoring.  18kgs.

[lemmywinks]

19 minutes ago, carlsim said:

Cool…. Let me know if you decide to!

 

I'll get some pics and figure a price out and shoot you a message over the next few days.

[Phil Starr]

I'm going to recommend you have a look at The LFSys Silverstone or Monaco. You'll need an amp though.

 

The advantage of a designed for bass speaker is that the drive units are selected specifically for bass, you get a less resonant wooden cabinet and in this case the crossover is exceptional. It is also designed with a horn chosen and orientated specifically to give great audibility when you are standing close to your cab when it is on the floor.

 

I've used RCF310's RCF745 and QSC K12-2 and they all sound great when flown on poles, which is what they are designed to do, on the floor they are very bass heavy so you'll need quite a lot of eq to tame that excessive bass. 

 

Just so it's clear I have a friendship with LFS and was involved in some of the testing whilst the speaker was being developed. Try contacting @scrumpymikewho has the Monaco for an independent view

 

FRFR Bass Guitar cabinet LFSys https://www.lfsys.co.uk/

 

 

[BigRedX]

I switched to using a FRFR about 5 years ago and it would be very difficult for me the consider going back.

 

Nearly all the gigs I do have full PA support, and at many of them I found my amp and cabs completely redundant either because the stage was too big for me to be able to hear it the moment I was not longer stood directly in front of it, or because I had been asked to turn down to such a degree to not affect the FoH sound that I could hear more bass guitar from the guitarist's monitor on the other side of the stage then I could from my rig immediately behind me.

 

I opted for a Line6 Helix Floor and an RCF745 at a combined new price of just over £2k. That might seem a lot, but it was less than I paid for my previous bass rig which had been mostly bought second hand. Also because this set up can be used for all the instruments I play (bass, guitar, and synth) by the time I had sold all the equipment that it was replacing, I'd actually made a small profit!

 

I've not noticed any problems with the RCF being excessively bass heavy when used in wedge mode, but that may be down to the bass sounds that I currently need with the two bands I play in. I've only had to use it on a couple occasions when the PA has been strictly vocals only, and it has always sounded fine FoH and no lack of volume even with reasonably hard-hitting drummers.

 

TBH these days I hardly ever use the RCF outside of the rehearsal room. For most gigs I go straight into the PA from the Helix and use the venue's foldback system. The RCF only comes to gigs where we are unsure about how good the foldback will be or if we have been asked to provide a bass rig for another band on the bill (although I always warn them in advance about what they will be getting). However I'm not the kind of musician who can only play well if the on-stage sound is perfect. So long as I can hear myself well enough to tell that I am in time and in tune, that will do, and I'll trust that the sound engineer is making me sound awesome for the audience. 

 

I also don't worry about not having a conventional bass rig ruining the band image. For one band I play with we have made a conscious decision not to have any amps on stage and the minimalist look works well for us. It also means that we tend to sound better on stage and FoH. We also do lots of gigs supporting reasonably well-known bands from the 80s and 90s and interestingly there is a 50/50 mix of those who still use the same old amps and cabs from back in the day and those who have ditched the back line entirely (occasionally the guitarist will have a tiny all-valve amp).

Edited March 14, 2023 by BigRedX

[BassmanPaul]

For me it's the Acme B2 2x10 three way cabinet. I use a pair stacked on their ends for a vertical 4x10.  Stacked this way improves dispersion out into the room and brings the sound up by my ears for easy monitoring. On stage the set just takes the same amount of room as one cabinet.

 

The plum is how well they handle the low B of my six stringed instruments. A pure delight!

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by BassmanPaul

[Ba55me15ter]

Yamaha DXR12 (mk1) here. Works great!

[carlsim]

29 minutes ago, Ba55me15ter said:

Yamaha DXR12 (mk1) here. Works great!

The DXR12 had piqued my attention I must admit, a guitarist I know uses one with a kemper and it sounds immense!

[jezzaboy]

7 hours ago, carlsim said:

I was looking at one of these rather than it’s big 735 brother… I only intend to use it mainly as a bass monitor… so it would do a good job here??

Yeah, it would do the job fine. I stick a Sans Amp into it and the built in Firphase system takes care of everything else, there is only a line/mic setting, a boost/flat option and a volume control.

 

To be honest it`s only problem is it`s a bit ugly imo.  I prefer the looks of the Yamaha DR but that`s just me being picky. I bought the RCF as they get a decent write up and are a cheaper alternative to the QSC`s.

[Jack]

I've been tempted by Thomann's own stuff once or twice. They do a few active pa cabinets that get there or thereabouts on specs with several forum faves and their prices are amazing. I own several Thomann own-brand products (including a speaker cabinet, the excellent Six Mix) and they tend to be really well received generally.

 

I haven't bought any yet though, because I bought a pair or QSC K12.2, which as you already know, is the real answer here.

[carlsim]

Just now, Jack said:

I've been tempted by Thomann's own stuff once or twice. They do a few active pa cabinets that get there or thereabouts on specs with several forum faves and their prices are amazing. I own several Thomann own-brand products (including a speaker cabinet, the excellent Six Mix) and they tend to be really well received generally.

 

I haven't bought any yet though, because I bought a pair or QSC K12.2, which as you already know, is the real answer here.

 

The 12.2 would be my ideal choice, but at nearly a grand new, I can't believe how much they have gone up in price over the past couple of years. I had a 10.2 just before lockdown and paid around £600... now £200 dearer. Oh well... will see what I can get!

[Jack]

Double post.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Jack

[Jack]

17 hours ago, BigRedX said:

...I opted for a Line6 Helix Floor and an RCF745 at a combined new price of just over £1k...

Those were the days, right? c. £2400 now. I can sort of handle the petrol and the council tax increases but the bass gear is killing me.

 

2 minutes ago, carlsim said:

 

The 12.2 would be my ideal choice, but at nearly a grand new, I can't believe how much they have gone up in price over the past couple of years. I had a 10.2 just before lockdown and paid around £600... now £200 dearer. Oh well... will see what I can get!

And the same. I paid £1300 for a pair of K12.2s including the (at the time free) bags. That's £2000 now.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Jack

[Baloney Balderdash]

Looking at the specs the QSC K12.2 is not significantly lighter (only 7kg lighter), and got a low frequency response of 50Hz (-10B), vs the 45Hz (-3dB) (and I can attest that the low frequency response is impressive, but punchy and tight) of the 400% cheaper cabinet that I suggested (the active version that I mentioned that is, The Box PA 502A, to compare apples to apples).

 

Also digital preamp/Class D power amp vs. all analog preamp/SS power amp.

 

The QCC K12.2 does play louder though (1000W RMS/2000W peak vs. 300W RMS/1200W peak).

 

But well, it's your money.

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash