The need for Active Basses when using wireless systems.........

[Pirellithecat]

I know that there are several reasons for the choice of active vs passive electronics.  One of them seems to be that Active basses address the issue of signal loss via (long) leads and once the signal has degraded you can't adequately address this using external EQ. 

Isn't this argument invalid where wireless systems are employed?    

 

[Pirellithecat]

Oops - probably should be in the Bass guitar section ........

[itu]

Well, there are few details you should be aware of:

1) impedance change

2) signal degradation via lost packets

3) signal issues

 

First is not the most obvious, but you need to understand it, especially if you use OD/dist/fuzz pedals. When the output impedance changes in a wireless, it cannot be driven similarly in the receiver end. This may affect your sound quite a lot. Please try a cable and a wireless side by side.

 

Second and third are tied together. Many cheaper wireless systems are working in the 2.4 GHz area. It is very crowded (Bluetooth, WiFi, et al.). Therefore you may lose some of the data. Usually there is some error corrcetion (sorry) involved, and most of the data is fine. Another issue is water. 2.4 GHz is damped a lot by water (your body, playmates... sorry, again). That's why you may hear cuts in the signal, or sighs.

 

5 GHz area is "faster" by its nature, but needs good line of sight from antenna to another.

 

The best transmitters work in lower frequency area, but they cost more. Some areas in Europe may require permission to use one.

 

You are right that the cable length is no more an issue up to around 100 metres depending on the system,  but these other issues need to be understood, too.

[Pirellithecat]

Yep - I did find the issues with cheaper Wireless systems - so always have a cable to hand should there be interference problems.    However, I haven't had problems with dropout since changing to a Boss WL 20 and I can not detect any change in signal quality, when using wired or wireless.  I've used the Boss WL20 with active and passive basses with no issues (I did read up about it when choosing between the WL20L and the WL20 and chose the non L version for a reason I can no longer recall!) - however my Gigging bass is active and I have no "impedance issus that I can detect.

 

So these technical issues associated with wireless units aside, is the reason for choosing Active vs Passive now purely a preference as to where one wants to set the tone, i.e. on the amp (pre-amp)or on the guitar? 

I tend to leave the tone on the bass alone and maybe use a change in the blend between the pickups for different styles during a set.   The Amp gets set up for the venue acoustics at the get go and that's about it apart from pedals for Drive/Octave etc. 

I'm interested as I have the urge to buy a "new" bass and am weighing up the active vs passive options.   

[agedhorse]

Active basses can drive lower impedance loads. This includes long cables because the capacitance reduces impedance (via capacitive reactance) as the cable length grows (for bass guitar it’s typically not a big issue up to about 10M).

 

Most wireless transmitters have an instrument input impedance of around 1M which is compatible with all pickups, active or passive.

[Pirellithecat]

So ....... no need for an Active unless I feel the need for more tone controls ON the bass rather than the Pre-amp/Amp ............  How disappointing,  Gas Evaporating ............😌

[Woodinblack]

On 14/03/2023 at 11:21, Pirellithecat said:

Isn't this argument invalid where wireless systems are employed?   

 

Indeed, cable loss is not an issue where wireless systems are employed. So if that is your only reason for active (and is primarily mine) then it is not an argument.

[LeftyJ]

The Sony wireless system and some of the more expensive Line6 systems even have a function to mimic signal loss due to long cables 

[Ralf1e]

On 14/03/2023 at 11:21, Pirellithecat said:

I know that there are several reasons for the choice of active vs passive electronics.  One of them seems to be that Active basses address the issue of signal loss via (long) leads and once the signal has degraded you can't adequately address this using external EQ. 

Isn't this argument invalid where wireless systems are employed?    

 

Most active basses cause hum or whine with wireless systems

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, Ralf1e said:

Most active basses cause hum or whine with wireless systems

 

Completely untrue. Most active basses don't.

[Delberthot]

I can't say that I've chosen a bass on whether it was active or not - it's usually based on how shiny it is

 

Most basses I've played haven't had the option of chosing an active or a passive version. The last time I can remember this was the original Bass Collection basses. I had an SB405 passive and later one of the fancy ones with the gold hardware and fancy woods, I forget the model but there was paduak in there somewhere. might have been an SB465

 

[SumOne]

23 hours ago, Pirellithecat said:

So ....... no need for an Active unless I feel the need for more tone controls ON the bass rather than the Pre-amp/Amp ............  How disappointing,  Gas Evaporating ............😌

 

It is good having those controls directly to hand though, if there is just one part of a song where you want to quickly make an EQ change then it is slightly easier doing that by turning a dial on the Bass rather than walking over to a pedal/amp to make changes mid-song. That's my main plus point for active Basses anyway. I used active and passive Basses with a Line 6 wireless system and it seemed to work fine for both.

Edited March 16, 2023 by SumOne

[agedhorse]

7 hours ago, Ralf1e said:

Most active basses cause hum or whine with wireless systems

They do? 
 

I haven’t seen this to be the case, in 40+ years of being in the business. 

[SumOne]

There can be issues with active basses and wireless systems due to the ground wiring, it must happen often enough as Boss have taken the time to draw diagrams of the issue and solution and put it on their website:

 

https://www.boss.info/global/support/by_product/wl-20_wl-20l/support_documents/cf786345-1dd0-46c3-a2ac-350bfb4a8104/

 

 

 I used the Boss wireless for the Waza Air headphones with an active Bass and there were no issue though.  

Edited March 16, 2023 by SumOne

[tauzero]

7 hours ago, Ralf1e said:

Most active basses cause hum or whine with wireless systems

 

No they don't (sample size of 15+ active basses and 6 wireless systems).

[agedhorse]

12 hours ago, SumOne said:

There can be issues with active basses and wireless systems due to the ground wiring, it must happen often enough as Boss have taken the time to draw diagrams of the issue and solution and put it on their website:

 

https://www.boss.info/global/support/by_product/wl-20_wl-20l/support_documents/cf786345-1dd0-46c3-a2ac-350bfb4a8104/

 

 

 I used the Boss wireless for the Waza Air headphones with an active Bass and there were no issue though.  

That’s not an active bass issue, it’s incompatible wiring/connection with that particular product.

 

I’m not sure why they chose to use a TRS plug on the transmitter, but it’s unusual and maybe even unique.

 

I have worked with hundreds of players, interfacing wireless systems (mostly at the professional level, with pro products by Shure, Sennheiser and Audio Technica) without any problems.

Edited March 17, 2023 by agedhorse

[SuperSeagull]

15 hours ago, Ralf1e said:

Most active basses cause hum or whine with wireless systems

Not true of my Status and Fender active basses with a Shure wireless system. 

[Ralf1e]

7 hours ago, SuperSeagull said:

Not true of my Status and Fender active basses with a Shure wireless system. 

OK. Sorry to all about insulting all your active basses as well as  my own. What I should have said was a great many makes of wireless systems cause hum or whine with active basses which in hindsight is more accurate than my original post.

[agedhorse]

8 hours ago, Ralf1e said:

OK. Sorry to all about insulting all your active basses as well as  my own. What I should have said was a great many makes of wireless systems cause hum or whine with active basses which in hindsight is more accurate than my original post.

This too is inaccurate and incorrect. Maybe a FEW models of wireless, but certainly not many or great many.  Out of the hundreds I have set up, maybe one or two.

[Woodinblack]

8 hours ago, Ralf1e said:

OK. Sorry to all about insulting all your active basses as well as  my own.

 

Not insulting in any way, I have just not had it, so maybe there is something wrong with your systems? I have a Smoothhound, and two chinese wireless dongle systems (one 2.4g, one 5g) and haven't had it at all - feel free to insult if you want, they 2.4g ones cost £19, but they work fine.

Actually I have another one, that i have never tried, its a stereo system 2.4G system which I got for the stick, but haven't tried yet.

[Ralf1e]

5 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

Not insulting in any way, I have just not had it, so maybe there is something wrong with your systems? I have a Smoothhound, and two chinese wireless dongle systems (one 2.4g, one 5g) and haven't had it at all - feel free to insult if you want, they 2.4g ones cost £19, but they work fine.

Actually I have another one, that i have never tried, its a stereo system 2.4G system which I got for the stick, but haven't tried yet.

I have a Chinese one shaped like a guitar also cheap. It works with everything inc Roland drums, Roland Aerophone AE30? active basses but it is the only one that does of what I have inc exvive

[Ralf1e]

39 minutes ago, agedhorse said:

This too is inaccurate and incorrect. Maybe a FEW models of wireless, but certainly not many or great many.  Out of the hundreds I have set up, maybe one or two.

troll alarm

[SuperSeagull]

14 hours ago, Ralf1e said:

OK. Sorry to all about insulting all your active basses as well as  my own. What I should have said was a great many makes of wireless systems cause hum or whine with active basses which in hindsight is more accurate than my original post.

I wasn’t insulted, it’s an interesting debate. I was merely pointing out my own experience. 

[Woodinblack]

5 hours ago, Ralf1e said:

troll alarm

agedhorse doesn't seem to be the one trolling here...

[tauzero]

20 hours ago, Ralf1e said:

OK. Sorry to all about insulting all your active basses as well as  my own. What I should have said was a great many makes of wireless systems cause hum or whine with active basses which in hindsight is more accurate than my original post.

 

So where does this information come from, and if it's only personal experience, what basses and wireless systems does it apply to?