So what do you drive to transport your bass gear around?

[escholl]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='475034' date='Apr 29 2009, 01:17 PM']There was a time when one could enjoy driving on the road without being told that the only place for such driving in on a race track. And on an empty road with good visibility the risk is only one's own, not anyone else's. I'd agree that driving anywhere near the limits on an unfamiliar road is very risky, where there may be hidden entrances, strange camber changes etc. But on a road you know intimately it's a different matter altogether. And the patch of oil argument is very weak when you're in a vehicle with four contact patches many feet apart.

The styling driven penchant for ultra-low profile tyres on extra large wheels may be what's leading you to think any degree of sliding is dangerous and out of control - the wider and lower profile the tyre the less progressively the tyre lets go, and the faster the car will be going when it does. On a car with more sensibly sized tyres you have a much more progressive and controllable transition from grip to slip - I don't think I'd ever dare trying to slide a monster tyred X5 or suchlike, one moment you're going quickly round a bend, the next moment you're going quickly through a hedge. Very different on 195/65s.

I'd be far happier if the world was full of drivers that actively enjoyed driving and thus gave it their full attention - better car control in the event of an accident but more importantly a much reduced risk of accident due to better observation, forward planning and driving correctly for the conditions. I'm sure RoSPA would agree. An engaged driver is a safer driver.

Alex[/quote]

i've always been of the opinion that driving this way in a cheap (and by that i mean non-performance-oriented) car on roads you know is not only fun but:

1) lets you really learn the limits of your every-day car, enabling you better car control

2) teaches you to read the road better and what to pay attention to

3) prevents you from driving this way when the roads ARE busy

[Linus27]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='475034' date='Apr 29 2009, 01:17 PM']There was a time when one could enjoy driving on the road without being told that the only place for such driving in on a race track. And on an empty road with good visibility the risk is only one's own, not anyone else's. I'd agree that driving anywhere near the limits on an unfamiliar road is very risky, where there may be hidden entrances, strange camber changes etc. But on a road you know intimately it's a different matter altogether. And the patch of oil argument is very weak when you're in a vehicle with four contact patches many feet apart.

The styling driven penchant for ultra-low profile tyres on extra large wheels may be what's leading you to think any degree of sliding is dangerous and out of control - the wider and lower profile the tyre the less progressively the tyre lets go, and the faster the car will be going when it does. On a car with more sensibly sized tyres you have a much more progressive and controllable transition from grip to slip - I don't think I'd ever dare trying to slide a monster tyred X5 or suchlike, one moment you're going quickly round a bend, the next moment you're going quickly through a hedge. Very different on 195/65s.

I'd be far happier if the world was full of drivers that actively enjoyed driving and thus gave it their full attention - better car control in the event of an accident but more importantly a much reduced risk of accident due to better observation, forward planning and driving correctly for the conditions. I'm sure RoSPA would agree. An engaged driver is a safer driver.

Alex[/quote]


+ 10000 to this.

Plus, I very much doubt you are driving anywhere near the limit of your car or your ability. It's very easy to get a front wheel drive car to understeer at low speed. In fact, all you have to do is to steer hard and lift off the throttle at the correct time to induce understeer at very low speed.

Speed does not kill, its inapproprite (sp?) speed for the road conditions thats the problem and this is where people fail to understand or get right. Just because the road has a 40mph speed limit does not mean its safe to do 40mph on it. You should be looking at the road conditions and adjusting accordingly, not speedo watching. Likewise, if a road has a 50mph speed limit on it, does not mean its not safe to do 60mph.

[clauster]

I did have a Vectra, which was great for moving stuff - when we couldn't get a van I'd get two of our PA cabs in there, pthe 16X4 multicore, mixer, my combo, bass, leads bag and various other bits and pieces in.

Currently using Mrs C's Frontera Sport, which looks massive until you try and get anything in it.

[bassicinstinct]

Volvo 960 CD Auto Estate:

[attachment=24651:Volvo_960_Estate.jpg]

A bit like driving to gigs in your lounge.

[simondee]

I've got a Mini Cooper S. It's amazing what you can fit in there with the seats down

[Lifer]

If you're on a public road then you can't be sure there's no-one around. You could be the drifting champion of the world but if someone less 'skilled' than you pulls out (maybe because they can't judge speed) in front while you're 'learning your limits' you're gonna be in trouble. Similarly you could meet someone learning their limits coming the other way.

I love driving, I love speed, and there are plenty of places where you can find your limits in a controlled environment (run what you brung) or have a blast in something you'll never be able to drive normally (track days). Anything else is just stupid in my opinion.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='simondee' post='476893' date='May 1 2009, 12:10 PM']I've got a Mini Cooper S. It's amazing what you can fit in there with the seats down [/quote]I can believe you. I think I remember Mr. Clarkson off TG saying that the mini has the exact same wheelbase as a Range Rover or something. Not as "mini" as we generally think.

[quote name='Lifer' post='476907' date='May 1 2009, 12:19 PM'][b]If you're on a public road then you can't be sure there's no-one around. You could be the drifting champion of the world but if someone less 'skilled' than you pulls out (maybe because they can't judge speed) in front while you're 'learning your limits' you're gonna be in trouble. Similarly you could meet someone learning their limits coming the other way.[/b]

I love driving, I love speed, and there are plenty of places where you can find your limits in a controlled environment (run what you brung) or have a blast in something you'll never be able to drive normally (track days). Anything else is just stupid in my opinion.[/quote]The point is that a skilled driver already knows this and has adjusted to suit. There are drivers and there are drivers.

[51m0n]

[quote name='Lifer' post='476907' date='May 1 2009, 12:19 PM']If you're on a public road then you can't be sure there's no-one around. You could be the drifting champion of the world but if someone less 'skilled' than you pulls out (maybe because they can't judge speed) in front while you're 'learning your limits' you're gonna be in trouble. Similarly you could meet someone learning their limits coming the other way[/quote]

To be fair you dont have to be drifting or exceeding the speed limit for that to be an issue any time you get in your car and frankly the drifting champion of the world would be safer in that situation (ie drifting his arse off when something unexpected happens on a public road) than you would be if you were driving within the speed limits....



Thats Nobuteru Taniguchi, drives now in Super Taikyu and is one of the best drifters in the world. He's driving an A86 Trueno (very average road car) and clearly has some of the best car control you'll see anywhere. I'd rather it was him coming toward me hanging the back out a bit than almost anyone else in the world, cos he'd sort it out in no time!

[alexclaber]

[quote name='Lifer' post='476907' date='May 1 2009, 12:19 PM']If you're on a public road then you can't be sure there's no-one around. You could be the drifting champion of the world but if someone less 'skilled' than you pulls out (maybe because they can't judge speed) in front while you're 'learning your limits' you're gonna be in trouble. Similarly you could meet someone learning their limits coming the other way.[/quote]

Which is exactly why I talked about observation, forward planning and knowing the road.

Also bear in mind that there is no step change from 100% grip to 100% drifting. There's a big transitional area and whilst you're on that satisfying point where you're balancing initial oversteer/understeer there is almost always a lot more grip to be had should you need it.

I know I used to drive stupidly when I was 18 but thankfully the only accidents I had back then were low speed ones due to poor observation, not due to loss of control. 12 years on and I'm much safer and very aware of what's going on - I always seem to pull over for approaching ambulances/police cars/fire engines ages before anyone else has even twigged.

Alex

[Linus27]

[quote name='Lifer' post='476907' date='May 1 2009, 12:19 PM']If you're on a public road then you can't be sure there's no-one around. You could be the drifting champion of the world but if someone less 'skilled' than you pulls out (maybe because they can't judge speed) in front while you're 'learning your limits' you're gonna be in trouble. Similarly you could meet someone learning their limits coming the other way.

I love driving, I love speed, and there are plenty of places where you can find your limits in a controlled environment (run what you brung) or have a blast in something you'll never be able to drive normally (track days). Anything else is just stupid in my opinion.[/quote]

I can see the point your making and understand what your saying, but I think we have gone way to far to the extreme these days. Driving standards at the moment have dropped so much that some people are more of a danger to themselves and others simply for fear or prosecution by the nanny state and money grabbing goverment. How many times have you come up behind people in the middle lane on the motorway with the inside lane empty because they think they are safe because they are doing 60mph and don't need to overtake. How many times have you followed a car through a country lane doing 40mph but they remain doing 40mph in the 50mph zones, 30mph zone and national speed limit zone because they have been told 40mph is the safe speed.

I do track days in my Lotus Elise and yet drive responisbily on the road but I rarely stick to the speed limits. I do however, drive within my limits, the cars limits and the road conditions. I'll get the rear to step out a little on the road, where I feel it is no danger yet I have a clean licence and have since 1988. I very much doubt Alexclaber is sliding and throwing his car into every corner and speeding everywhere. He's just enjoying his driving within the limits of the road and his abilities. I very much doubt he is anywhere near dangerous, over the limit or out of control.

Driving is all about risk assesment, not about doing the speed that it says on the road sign.

[HeavyJay]

To get us back on topic.

I drive a 2001 Ford Focus to transport my stuff around. Annoyingly narrow boot in that it doesn't fit a bass in a hard case in (the pinnacle of boot design of course) but with the back seats down it is cavernous. I keep toying with the idea of changing it but it is nice to drive, reliable, cheap to run and service and I'd probably have to spend a lot to match or improve on it. A new car would be a new toy, and I'd prefer a new toy to have some strings attached (hopefully four of them).

[alexclaber]

[quote name='Linus27' post='477049' date='May 1 2009, 02:30 PM']I very much doubt Alexclaber is sliding and throwing his car into every corner and speeding everywhere.[/quote]

I'm far too stingy for that - I like my brakes and tyres to last and I begrudge paying for petrol! After the fuel prices shot up I tried to get in the habit of sticking between 70-75 on the motorway instead of 75-80 and I got another 4 mpg or so, so I now have an overspeed alert on the satnav set at 75mph to slow me down. The car's a lot quieter at 70 than 80 too, a lot of airflow must shift from laminar to turbulent at that speed hence the big leap in fuel consumption.

Alex

[51m0n]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='477103' date='May 1 2009, 03:27 PM']a lot of airflow must shift from[b] laminar to turbulent [/b]at that speed hence the big leap in fuel consumption.[/quote]

You're such a nerd Alex

[Ou7shined]

I get a lot of turbulence from my passengers at high speeds.

Edited May 1, 2009 by Ou7shined

[neepheid]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='477116' date='May 1 2009, 03:46 PM']I get a lot of turbulence from my passengers at high speeds. [/quote]

<python>
"I fart in your general direction!"
</python>

(That's twice for that gag, I wonder how many more situations it'll be appropriate for)

[alexclaber]

[quote name='51m0n' post='477113' date='May 1 2009, 03:43 PM']You're such a nerd Alex [/quote]

Takes one to know one!

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='477116' date='May 1 2009, 03:46 PM']I get a lot of turbulence from my passengers at high speeds. [/quote]

Mine are ok at steady high velocities but seem to lack stability under lateral loading... Maybe I should suggest thicker sidewalls?

Alex

[chris_pokkuri]

I drive a ford KA. It is crazy the amount of stuff you can fit in it. Before now i've had my 410 cab, head, two pa speakers, big mixer unit, bass guitar, a load of drum stands etc. Its all about the packing! It found it a little difficult to move mind and guzzled a ton of petrol.

[Lifer]

Apologies for getting all self righteous.

[xgsjx]

& so you should

[Linus27]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='477103' date='May 1 2009, 03:27 PM']I'm far too stingy for that - I like my brakes and tyres to last and I begrudge paying for petrol! After the fuel prices shot up I tried to get in the habit of sticking between 70-75 on the motorway instead of 75-80 and I got another 4 mpg or so, so I now have an overspeed alert on the satnav set at 75mph to slow me down. The car's a lot quieter at 70 than 80 too, a lot of airflow must shift from laminar to turbulent at that speed hence the big leap in fuel consumption.

Alex[/quote]

Alex, thats far to sensible. Drive it like you stole it ok. :):)

[iamthewalrus]

My gear travels in a Vauxhall Corsa. Not the biggest car in the world, but it's big enough for me.

Both my Epifani cabs fit in the boot with the rear seat forward a bit. My amp & my gig bag with my cables & leads sit on top of the cabs. My bass case lays on the rear seat & my stand goes in one of the footwells.

Cheers,
iamthewalrus

[vmaxblues]

Vauxhall zafira, outstanding amount of room, 2 mins to move rear seats and make a sizable van, nice to drive.

Top car for gear, I trnasport me and my gear and the guitarist and his plus all the lights, no problem!

[Rich]

02 plate Mondeo TDCi Ghia X, the 130 horse version. Black with tan leather. It takes all my kit, has all the toys, gives me 50+mpg at 75 on the M4 (I've just come home from me hols in North Wales, and it's averaged 46mpg fully loaded and with bikes on the roof) and with that huuuge midrange torque it'll cane the sheeite out of the little boys in their booming Saxos It's a lovely drive, and cheap to run unless an injector dies...