Mixing and mastering engineers

[woodyratm]

Hey folks,

I have an odd request… my band are looking to record our second EP. 
 

However… the first EP the engineer removed me from 3 out of 4 tracks. He said the DI signal wasn’t hot enough. We didn’t realise until fairly recently that it was a midi bass sample on all but one. 
 

So, I’m obviously not sure about him. However - he’s used by a fair few bands in Scotland and often just samples the bass (I believe) and is reasonably priced.

My guitarist is keen to use him again - “better the devil you know” and has spoken to him to find out what the issues were, he’s said he wants a new set of strings and a hot signal. So I tested, new strings on my Status CW and recorded direct with EQ balanced and with the EQ boosted fully. We sent the dude the track and asked if it would work. He said if we could get a sound like the boosted EQ for recording, he’d be happy to use the bass. Fair enough. 

But - I still have some reservations. My guitarist is also concerned about going to someone he doesn’t know, or not known, incase we either get screwed over, or they nick the music for themselves. Again, fair enough. 
 

Does anyone have any recommendations on someone who could be worth a look? We sent the stems and e-drums midi and can send the rough demos we have etc so see how things should be.

 

thanks in advance!

 

[Velarian]

I know Jack about this sort of thing but but WTF!

 

has the the mix/mastering engineer been given some sort of executive control over your material? Surely the decision to replace your parts should remain with you?

[woodyratm]

26 minutes ago, Velarian said:

I know Jack about this sort of thing but but WTF!

 

has the the mix/mastering engineer been given some sort of executive control over your material? Surely the decision to replace your parts should remain with you?

Yeah you would think. Like I used to be crazy nervous about recording, but felt good after recording this one. But now, kinda feel a bit crap.
 

if there was an issue with DI I just wish he’d said! I would happily have fixed. 

 

I was proud of the EP but it’s tainted now. 

 

 

[Jakester]

Well, you're paying him. If you don't like it, tell him, and if he won't do what you want, don't use him! 

[woodyratm]

9 minutes ago, Jakester said:

Well, you're paying him. If you don't like it, tell him, and if he won't do what you want, don't use him! 

I’m looking for recommendations so we don’t need to use him. 

[Beedster]

13 hours ago, woodyratm said:

Hey folks,

I have an odd request… my band are looking to record our second EP. 
 

However… the first EP the engineer removed me from 3 out of 4 tracks. He said the DI signal wasn’t hot enough. We didn’t realise until fairly recently that it was a midi bass sample on all but one. 
 

So, I’m obviously not sure about him. However - he’s used by a fair few bands in Scotland and often just samples the bass (I believe) and is reasonably priced.

My guitarist is keen to use him again - “better the devil you know” and has spoken to him to find out what the issues were, he’s said he wants a new set of strings and a hot signal. So I tested, new strings on my Status CW and recorded direct with EQ balanced and with the EQ boosted fully. We sent the dude the track and asked if it would work. He said if we could get a sound like the boosted EQ for recording, he’d be happy to use the bass. Fair enough. 

But - I still have some reservations. My guitarist is also concerned about going to someone he doesn’t know, or not known, incase we either get screwed over, or they nick the music for themselves. Again, fair enough. 
 

Does anyone have any recommendations on someone who could be worth a look? We sent the stems and e-drums midi and can send the rough demos we have etc so see how things should be.

 

thanks in advance!

 

 

So did the recording engineer or the mixing engineer remove your track? None of this sounds, to use your words 'fair enough', unless there's other factors. OK, if a producer was given carte blanche by the band to produce tghe best possible version of a recording that's one thing, but an engineer removing and replacing a part played by one of the musicians is quite a step without prior agreement, especially if you're paying for the master? 

[Waddo Soqable]

An odd and imperious thing for him to do. Not acceptable without the band's specific say so.. 

A thing I was involved with years ago did some tracks where the engineer bloke "treated" the tracks to a bit of "trimming" of the instruments, kind of microscopically chopping any sound off that wasn't bang on the beat, he did it with the bass and guitars. It ended up sounding like something computer generated after having the human " played live" element totally removed. I wasn't overly bothered as it wasn't my project but IMHO his interference didn't do it any favours at all ! 

Anyway I do hope you find somewhere to record that will present your music as it should be. 

[woodyratm]

13 minutes ago, Beedster said:

 

So did the recording engineer or the mixing engineer remove your track? None of this sounds, to use your words 'fair enough', unless there's other factors. OK, if a producer was given carte blanche by the band to produce tghe best possible version of a recording that's one thing, but an engineer removing and replacing a part played by one of the musicians is quite a step without prior agreement, especially if you're paying for the master? 

Mixing. We recorded everything ourselves. I just hadn’t boosted the EQ on the basses. 
 

I have lost complete trust in the guy now and would really prefer to go elsewhere. Even though he says he will use my playing, I don’t trust him to do so. 

[woodyratm]

1 minute ago, Waddo Soqable said:

An odd and imperious thing for him to do. Not acceptable without the band's specific say so.. 

A thing I was involved with years ago did some tracks where the engineer bloke "treated" the tracks to a bit of "trimming" of the instruments, kind of microscopically chopping any sound off that wasn't bang on the beat, he did it with the bass and guitars. It ended up sounding like something computer generated after having the human " played live" element totally removed. I wasn't overly bothered as it wasn't my project but IMHO his interference didn't do it any favours at all ! 

Anyway I do hope you find somewhere to record that will present your music as it should be. 

Funnily enough, he’s one of these engineers who adds drum stuff in. Makes it impossible

to play unless you’re an octopus! 

[Waddo Soqable]

2 minutes ago, woodyratm said:

Mixing. We recorded everything ourselves. I just hadn’t boosted the EQ on the basses. 
 

I have lost complete trust in the guy now and would really prefer to go elsewhere. Even though he says he will use my playing, I don’t trust him to do so. 

Surely he could have just got you to pop in and redo the bass parts if the existing signal was dodgy in some way you'd think? 

[Waddo Soqable]

4 minutes ago, woodyratm said:

Funnily enough, he’s one of these engineers who adds drum stuff in. Makes it impossible

to play unless you’re an octopus! 

Sounds like a frustrated would-be "producer" then

[Beedster]

40 minutes ago, woodyratm said:

Mixing. We recorded everything ourselves. I just hadn’t boosted the EQ on the basses. 

 

35 minutes ago, Waddo Soqable said:

Surely he could have just got you to pop in and redo the bass parts if the existing signal was dodgy in some way you'd think? 

 

Am I being naive in suggesting that this is exactly why you have a mixing engineer, to correct for tracked levels using their skills with gain, EQ, compression etc?  

[gjones]

52 minutes ago, woodyratm said:

I have lost complete trust in the guy now and would really prefer to go elsewhere. Even though he says he will use my playing, I don’t trust him to do so. 

I would feel the same as you if my playing had been tampered with, or not used at all in your case.

[WinterMute]

If the bass signal wasn't "hot" enough, he could have increased the gain with any number of gain stage devices in any number of DAWs. That was not an honest thing to do and I'd be p*ssed if it was my project.

 

The most important aspect of mixing someone else's music is a clear understanding of what they want it to sound like, and how they've gone about recording it, if it's a live band feel, that needs to be retained, if it's a Mutt Lange re-build note by note then attention to detail is essential. Good engineers respond to the music, the musicians and the intention. I have a list of questions I use to get to the meat of what an artist wants, even if I'm only engineering, not producing.

 

There are limitations to what can be done with some self-recordings, particularly where distortion is concerned, but there are tools available to make a fist of almost every recording error these days.

 

When you say "stems" what do you mean? If I was mixing your track, I'd want everything as close to original as possible, "stems" is a term that comes from Post Production engineers to describe sub-mixed groups of tracks. Do you mean comped and editing tracks?

[woodyratm]

45 minutes ago, WinterMute said:

If the bass signal wasn't "hot" enough, he could have increased the gain with any number of gain stage devices in any number of DAWs. That was not an honest thing to do and I'd be p*ssed if it was my project.

 

The most important aspect of mixing someone else's music is a clear understanding of what they want it to sound like, and how they've gone about recording it, if it's a live band feel, that needs to be retained, if it's a Mutt Lange re-build note by note then attention to detail is essential. Good engineers respond to the music, the musicians and the intention. I have a list of questions I use to get to the meat of what an artist wants, even if I'm only engineering, not producing.

 

There are limitations to what can be done with some self-recordings, particularly where distortion is concerned, but there are tools available to make a fist of almost every recording error these days.

 

When you say "stems" what do you mean? If I was mixing your track, I'd want everything as close to original as possible, "stems" is a term that comes from Post Production engineers to describe sub-mixed groups of tracks. Do you mean comped and editing tracks?

Potentially my wordage was incorrect. I’m not hugely knowledgeable at that stage of playing! I can play, but recording is a different world for me. Witchcraft! 😂
 

What I mean is he asked us to send the raw tracks for guitar, bass, vocals and synth. The drummer records midi using an electric kit (which he’s happy with, at least it’s mostly him on record!). 
 

If that helps. 

 

EDIT: aha the guitarist does the comping of tracks. 

Edited March 17, 2023 by woodyratm

[woodyratm]

36 minutes ago, WinterMute said:

If the bass signal wasn't "hot" enough, he could have increased the gain with any number of gain stage devices in any number of DAWs. That was not an honest thing to do and I'd be p*ssed if it was my project.

 

The most important aspect of mixing someone else's music is a clear understanding of what they want it to sound like, and how they've gone about recording it, if it's a live band feel, that needs to be retained, if it's a Mutt Lange re-build note by note then attention to detail is essential. Good engineers respond to the music, the musicians and the intention. I have a list of questions I use to get to the meat of what an artist wants, even if I'm only engineering, not producing.

 

There are limitations to what can be done with some self-recordings, particularly where distortion is concerned, but there are tools available to make a fist of almost every recording error these days.

 

When you say "stems" what do you mean? If I was mixing your track, I'd want everything as close to original as possible, "stems" is a term that comes from Post Production engineers to describe sub-mixed groups of tracks. Do you mean comped and editing tracks?

Also, meant to say - my tone is heavy fuzz and distortion. But two tracks were sent. One with the effected tone, and one raw clean DI so he could do whatever he wanted with. 

[WinterMute]

That's pretty standard, it's also why a lot of engineers prefer to record and mix rather than just mix, as they're assured of the edits and the comping etc.

 

Still no idea why he thought it was OK to remove your performances without discussing it, not cool.

 

Drummers and bassist do get replaced in some genres a lot, but only by prior agreement. it remains cheaper to programme drums rather than record live drums, although to my ears it never sounds as good.

[Erax Sound]

Happy to help you out squire. Have PM'd you.

[cheddatom]

only just seen this, also happy to help if you still need it doing

 

If someone sent me stems and there was something wrong with the bass, I'd go back to the client and ask them to fix it. I might offer to play it for them, but I definitely wouldn't MIDI it

[BigRedX]

With my engineer's/producer's hat on, it seems a strange thing to do. The original signal would need to be very low with a noticeably high noise floor and the overall band mix would need to be very minimal for it to even begin to be necessary.

 

On the other hand as a songwriter/band member, I'd have no problem having anything I recorded being removed replaced so long as it made a noticeable improvement to the overall sound and feel of the recording.

[lowdown]

4 hours ago, cheddatom said:

If someone sent me stems and there was something wrong with the bass, I'd go back to the client and ask them to fix it. I might offer to play it for them, but I definitely wouldn't MIDI it

 

 

100% this and, the most professional thing to do.

 

 

[BigRedX]

Out of interest how did you find out that the bass had been replaced?

[Ramirez]

On 16/03/2023 at 21:59, woodyratm said:

Hey folks,

I have an odd request… my band are looking to record our second EP. 
 

However… the first EP the engineer removed me from 3 out of 4 tracks. He said the DI signal wasn’t hot enough. We didn’t realise until fairly recently that it was a midi bass sample on all but one. 
 

So, I’m obviously not sure about him. However - he’s used by a fair few bands in Scotland and often just samples the bass (I believe) and is reasonably priced.

My guitarist is keen to use him again - “better the devil you know” and has spoken to him to find out what the issues were, he’s said he wants a new set of strings and a hot signal. So I tested, new strings on my Status CW and recorded direct with EQ balanced and with the EQ boosted fully. We sent the dude the track and asked if it would work. He said if we could get a sound like the boosted EQ for recording, he’d be happy to use the bass. Fair enough. 

But - I still have some reservations. My guitarist is also concerned about going to someone he doesn’t know, or not known, incase we either get screwed over, or they nick the music for themselves. Again, fair enough. 
 

Does anyone have any recommendations on someone who could be worth a look? We sent the stems and e-drums midi and can send the rough demos we have etc so see how things should be.

 

thanks in advance!

 

 

That sounds like complete nonsense. Recording systems have gain controls precisely in order to make a signal "hot" enough. If there was an issue it should have been addressed at the time. A signal not being "hot enough" is only a problem if there are noise issues, and if bringing the gain up makes the noise problematic. That should a very obvious problem that can be sorted together at that time.

 

In all honesty, I'd avoid him. Doesn't sound like someone who runs a professional service.