Letts Bass

[binky_bass]

@EddieG - Letts has 4 or 5 basses for sale on Reverb. You could instruct the bailiffs to seize them to be sold at auction, they might collectively make enough money to pay you back. Jon would also be far better off just paying you your money if the choice given to him was to have all the basses seized and sold or to pay you want he owes you. 

[Burns-bass]

1 hour ago, binky_bass said:

@EddieG - Letts has 4 or 5 basses for sale on Reverb. You could instruct the bailiffs to seize them to be sold at auction, they might collectively make enough money to pay you back. Jon would also be far better off just paying you your money if the choice given to him was to have all the basses seized and sold or to pay you want he owes you. 

He’s a Ltd company and these will be owned (one assumes) by a new one, meaning the poster has no claim on it.

 

Instinctively, I feel sorry for anyone who has been scammed.

 

This is going to make me unpopular, but I also have a slight sadness for Jon. He’s obviously got limited business knowledge and priced these basses far too low. He’s then been overcome by demand and simply can’t cope. All the while, he’s working hour after hour and likely making a loss on the instrument.

 

The way he’s handled this is awful and upsetting and it’s terrible people have lost money. 
 

But anyone who has operated a business can tell you of similar companies who have gone through the same thing.

 

I’m personally involved in legal action against someone who is doing *precisely* the same thing as Jon here. It’s sad and pathetic and reflects that person’s total moral failure, but you have to hope there’s a chance for them to redeem themselves (or you’d lose all faith in humanity).

Edited January 30 by Burns-bass

[OliverBlackman]

19 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

He’s a Ltd company and these will be owned (one assumes) by a new one, meaning the poster has no claim on it.

 

Instinctively, I feel sorry for anyone who has been scammed.

 

This is going to make me unpopular, but I also have a slight sadness for Jon. He’s obviously got limited business knowledge and priced these basses far too low. He’s then been overcome by demand and simply can’t cope. All the while, he’s working hour after hour and likely making a loss on the instrument.

 

The way he’s handled this is awful and upsetting and it’s terrible people have lost money. 
 

But anyone who has operated a business can tell you of similar companies who have gone through the same thing.

 

I’m personally involved in legal action against someone who is doing *precisely* the same thing as Jon here. It’s sad and pathetic and reflects that person’s total moral failure, but you have to hope there’s a chance for them to redeem themselves (or you’d lose all faith in humanity).

Worse than not having business awareness, it seems from Eddies story he doesn’t have the technical knowledge of making a bass that functions. If you see on Facebook the detailed drawings that Overwater completed for their hollow body design, you can see why there aren’t many that can do it well.

[Beedster]

25 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

He’s a Ltd company and these will be owned (one assumes) by a new one, meaning the poster has no claim on it.

 

Instinctively, I feel sorry for anyone who has been scammed.

 

This is going to make me unpopular, but I also have a slight sadness for Jon. He’s obviously got limited business knowledge and priced these basses far too low. He’s then been overcome by demand and simply can’t cope. All the while, he’s working hour after hour and likely making a loss on the instrument.

 

The way he’s handled this is awful and upsetting and it’s terrible people have lost money. 
 

But anyone who has operated a business can tell you of similar companies who have gone through the same thing.

 

I’m personally involved in legal action against someone who is doing *precisely* the same thing as Jon here. It’s sad and pathetic and reflects that person’s total moral failure, but you have to hope there’s a chance for them to redeem themselves (or you’d lose all faith in humanity).

Well put Lawrie 👍

[Wolverinebass]

That's grim. Whilst I appreciate that clearly the guy has dug himself into a hole, he's been incredibly duplicitous about it.

 

This isn't waiting almost 2 years for a Wal as I did or 3 years for a Grainger (which I should get in a few weeks). Quite a lot of the latter was due to covid and their resulting backlog before anyone asks, this Letts bloke is just taking your money and trying to run. Or hoping you'll give up.

 

Were it me, I think a few of my friends in Edinburgh would be called. The fact that he's now saying he can't afford 50 quid a month. Nah, I'm not buying that at all. That's the problem with this idiocy. You can easily take someone to court and win, but then they'll just turn round say they can't pay and thumb their nose at you. Sod that.

[Burns-bass]

4 minutes ago, Wolverinebass said:

That's grim. Whilst I appreciate that clearly the guy has dug himself into a hole, he's been incredibly duplicitous about it.

 

This isn't waiting almost 2 years for a Wal as I did or 3 years for a Grainger (which I should get in a few weeks). Quite a lot of the latter was due to covid and their resulting backlog before anyone asks, this Letts bloke is just taking your money and trying to run. Or hoping you'll give up.

 

Were it me, I think a few of my friends in Edinburgh would be called. The fact that he's now saying he can't afford 50 quid a month. Nah, I'm not buying that at all. That's the problem with this idiocy. You can easily take someone to court and win, but then they'll just turn round say they can't pay and thumb their nose at you. Sod that.

 

I'm not sure whether implying physical harm on someone makes you morally superior to the fraudster or not...

 

Sometimes, you have to chalk this stuff up to experience and weigh up the emotional turmoil of getting angry and upset for years against the financial loss. The guy is probably bankrupt, his name in tatters, and his likelihood of resurrecting the business low. I mean, if you search for Letts bass this discussion is one of the first results.

 

 

 

 

[EddieG]

DO NOT feel sorry for Letts. I did, more than once when he laid out his sob stories (which I suspect were lies, like everything else he said).

A luthier making an honest mistake, and trying his best to put that right? That's someone to feel sorry for.

 

Letts took thousands of pounds from myself and at least three other people I have personally been in contact with, and ultimately refused to give them what they asked for. The fact that he's a substandard cowboy isn't mine or anyone else's fault. It's his. 
You can't make my bass because you're useless? Give back my money. It's as easy as that.

 

I have the whole correspondence trail between Letts and myself, going back to him promising the bass would be the best I'd ever played, right up to the Instagram message of me trying to get something worked out for the balance he owed me, and Letts simply ceasing to communicate. 
 

This isn't a man who deserves your sympathy, or an opportunity for a "fresh start" or the means to "eat", as someone put it.

This is someone who deserves to be ostracised as a guitar builder, so that no one has to go through this with him again. 
 

Because someone most certainly will, of that you can be absolutely sure. 

[EddieG]

Burns-bass, with respect does this look like someone who feels his business is "in tatters"?

 

https://youtube.com/@JonLettsGuitars

 

I can assure you Letts fully intends to carry on as he always has done. And the only way to combat this is to make sure my story and that of the others he stole from is spread far and wide. 
He deserves nothing less. 

[Wolverinebass]

6 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

 

I'm not sure whether implying physical harm on someone makes you morally superior to the fraudster or not...

 

Sometimes, you have to chalk this stuff up to experience and weigh up the emotional turmoil of getting angry and upset for years against the financial loss. The guy is probably bankrupt, his name in tatters, and his likelihood of resurrecting the business low. I mean, if you search for Letts bass this discussion is one of the first results.

 

 

 

 

That is true. I have done exactly as you say on some occasions. To give you an example. A couple of years ago my brother passed away. After arranging the sale of his flat, the people downstairs land grabbed half of the garden which belonged to his flat fencing it off and put a set of French doors in a supporting wall without planning permission. Now, the offer gets pulled, they've caused structural damage and I'm easily going to win taking them to court. Obviously they're not going to pay, so what's the point? Now, I had to sell the flat for almost a loss because of these idiots and we are talking way more than the value of a bass here. Even if it were a series 2 Alembic. Ironically, I was just executor. I wouldn't have got anything anyway.

 

I wasn't advocating physical harm on Mr Letts. Just thought it might be the case that at some point he's going to get someone who might try to get a refund in a less polite way. Though for £1600, I don't think I'd bother going that way as it wouldn't be worth it. He's not going to cough up.

 

However, that being said. His reputation is shot to those who know and he may or may not be an incredibly sad, pitiful figure.

[neepheid]

56 minutes ago, Wolverinebass said:

Were it me, I think a few of my friends in Edinburgh would be called.

 

 

[Wolverinebass]

1 minute ago, neepheid said:

 

 

Ah, Chewin' The Fat. I remember that sketch.

[Burns-bass]

1 hour ago, Wolverinebass said:

That is true. I have done exactly as you say on some occasions. To give you an example. A couple of years ago my brother passed away. After arranging the sale of his flat, the people downstairs land grabbed half of the garden which belonged to his flat fencing it off and put a set of French doors in a supporting wall without planning permission. Now, the offer gets pulled, they've caused structural damage and I'm easily going to win taking them to court. Obviously they're not going to pay, so what's the point? Now, I had to sell the flat for almost a loss because of these idiots and we are talking way more than the value of a bass here. Even if it were a series 2 Alembic. Ironically, I was just executor. I wouldn't have got anything anyway.

 

I wasn't advocating physical harm on Mr Letts. Just thought it might be the case that at some point he's going to get someone who might try to get a refund in a less polite way. Though for £1600, I don't think I'd bother going that way as it wouldn't be worth it. He's not going to cough up.

 

However, that being said. His reputation is shot to those who know and he may or may not be an incredibly sad, pitiful figure.

 

Totally get it – and I'm so sorry to hear of what happened to you at a time of immense personal stress. 

 

The way you conduct yourself and the person you are is really the only measure of success as a human being. On this, Jon has absolutely failed. He is, as you describe, a sad and pitiful figure – something I'm sure he knows. Same as our fraudster friend.

 

I read an interview with Tyson Fury where he was asked how he would react if a cleaner stole £50 from his house. The interviewer thought he'd say something stupid like "I'd beat them up". Instead, he confounded expectations and said he's sit the person down and asked them what had gone so wrong that they would do something like that.

 

I agree that I may feel differently had I been scammed by Jon, but in the end, I'm pretty sure he realises how pathetic he is.

[Beedster]

6 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

 

Totally get it – and I'm so sorry to hear of what happened to you at a time of immense personal stress. 

 

The way you conduct yourself and the person you are is really the only measure of success as a human being. On this, Jon has absolutely failed. He is, as you describe, a sad and pitiful figure – something I'm sure he knows. Same as our fraudster friend.

 

I read an interview with Tyson Fury where he was asked how he would react if a cleaner stole £50 from his house. The interviewer thought he'd say something stupid like "I'd beat them up". Instead, he confounded expectations and said he's sit the person down and asked them what had gone so wrong that they would do something like that.

 

I agree that I may feel differently had I been scammed by Jon, but in the end, I'm pretty sure he realises how pathetic he is.

 

He's got himself in a monkey trap entirely of his own making. Probably the only way out is to get some professional advice/help to structure his debts and obligations to customers, come clean to those customers by opening up authentic and honest channels of communication, and possibly seeks some form of coaching/counselling to help him avoid doing the same thing al over again. But all of that would require a level of bravery that most people don't possess, and the ability to sacrifice short-term security for something perhaps more meaningful. But he may simply see no option. Most people who do bad shit aren't bad people, they just f*** up and fall into a spiral of covering up with each stage making everything worse still. I've seen it happen to some good guys who had real talent but poor business sense, started out trying to do good and ended up hated by everyone. Not saying this is the case here as I don't know anything like enough of the facts, but I doubt he set out for things to be this way. 

 

I'm not meaning to be insensitive to or in any way critical of those who've lost their cash

[TheGreek]

Understandable that people are angry. 

Sounds like John is building basses to sell rather than meet his outstanding commitments.

His name is mud here, I'd be doing everything I could to make sure others aren't getting burnt. 

[Burns-bass]

54 minutes ago, Beedster said:

 

He's got himself in a monkey trap entirely of his own making. Probably the only way out is to get some professional advice/help to structure his debts and obligations to customers, come clean to those customers by opening up authentic and honest channels of communication, and possibly seeks some form of coaching/counselling to help him avoid doing the same thing al over again. But all of that would require a level of bravery that most people don't possess, and the ability to sacrifice short-term security for something perhaps more meaningful. But he may simply see no option. Most people who do bad shit aren't bad people, they just f*** up and fall into a spiral of covering up with each stage making everything worse still. I've seen it happen to some good guys who had real talent but poor business sense, started out trying to do good and ended up hated by everyone. Not saying this is the case here as I don't know anything like enough of the facts, but I doubt he set out for things to be this way. 

 

I'm not meaning to be insensitive to or in any way critical of those who've lost their cash

 

I've done a bit of digging, and my sympathy is drying up somewhat.

 

I've checked companies house, and he's claiming the company is dormant, but he's not liquidated it, which means he should still has liability.

 

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/08835334/filing-history

 

He's also claiming that it's dormant, while trading under the same name and account on Reverb – which is a bit naughty (and maybe someone might want to report him?)

 

 

[Rich]

18 minutes ago, neepheid said:

The ACG comment was purely an aesthetic comment - arguably this thread should not have been muddied with comments about whether or not people find Letts' basses aesthetically pleasing, but that's a couple of people now who have misinterpreted the ACG comment as somehow lumping Alan in with this Letts guy on a conduct/business sense level.

 

ACG is ace, Letts is not - can we drop it now, please?

Agreed. I have hidden all the ACG-based comments, as they're just muddying the waters.

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

Admittedly I know nothing of Letts or his basses, but one would assume there must be some happy customers/owners out there somewhere?

I watched one of his build videos on YT and there’s some huge red flags throughout. Not quite MDP standard, but still worrying.

Are they old videos reloaded or are they new to his channel?

[Dread Bass]

I was one of the lucky ones as well. I bought a 6 string fretless from Jon when he did a Basschat offer. The bass was Ok and was ready on time but had issues. It had a fixed bridge that was fiddly to get the intonation right, it lacked bridge grounding and the pickups were not up to much. 
 

As someone aspiring to build guitars as a living in the future I re-read stories like this to remind me of how things can go wrong. 

[TRBboy]

@EddieG really sorry to hear your story. 😞

 

I've been seeing him pop up all over social media and YouTube, and was sure there had been some kind of scandal on here involving him, but couldn't remember what.

 

It sounds like he's entirely responsible for the situation he's created, and is best avoided.

[spacecowboy]

@EddieGHoly moly what an absolute faff on. Feel for you buddy. 

[fretmeister]

1 hour ago, Burns-bass said:

 

I've done a bit of digging, and my sympathy is drying up somewhat.

 

I've checked companies house, and he's claiming the company is dormant, but he's not liquidated it, which means he should still has liability.

 

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/08835334/filing-history

 

He's also claiming that it's dormant, while trading under the same name and account on Reverb – which is a bit naughty (and maybe someone might want to report him?)

 

 

 

And if any money has gone to him personally, directly from the OP, such as paid into a personal account then it might be that the corporate veil doesn't protect him anyway.

[EddieG]

So in the interest of full disclosure and to make sure the full story is being told, I posted the details of my story on the Talkbass boards as a "warning" thread. 
After some time, Letts actually replied, and his response is below. Given what I've said, make of it what you will.

 

Letts- "Hi all. So yes. I did have many problems at the time of this build. And have been struggling financially pretty much ever since. Eddie wasn’t the only person who got stung by my unfortunate circumstances at the time. But it was limited to just a few individuals. I have tried to remedy this situation with Eddie over the years. And fully endeavour to remedy the situation as soon as possible. I did try to offer Eddie a bass a couple of years ago and he refused to let me do that and insisted Ai build a bass that he had personally designed and that just couldn’t happen at that time. In my experience these things always end pretty badly. Never the less I do owe him a bass, like I say along with a couple of others from this period when I actually made an attempt in my own life. I do still sell guitars through reverb.com but make very little. Hardly enough to survive to be honest. But I’m quite stubborn in my belief in myself as a guitar maker regardless of my business failures. I am a preferred seller on reverb and have a 5 star feedback with done pretty incredible testimonials. I had to cut contact with Eddie because it just became very heated between us. Yes, I owe him some money. Yes I am trying to overcome this situation. No, Eddie doesn’t help by spamming very post about me and my guitars on every social platform. I don’t blame Eddie for this. I fully understand his anger at what went down with his bass that did cost a small fortune to get to the point it was when everything fell apart in my life. I didn’t steal his money exactly. The money was spent on timber and unfortunately the bass just didn’t make it at the time and I’ve not been able to reconcile this matter like I really do need to. I am working on it. I still take the odd custom order on a no deposit, no commitment basis very rarely. I do need to sell guitars. They all get sold through reverb with full buyer protection. And have for several years now. There’s not a lot I can say. I’ve said things I probably shouldn’t in the heat of the moment in the past and sun very dubious about even commenting on this stuff for fear of coming across the wrong way. I’m not really that bad of a guy, I hope. All this business with Eddie, Tom and a Michael are isolated incidents from a long time ago. I really hope my business can pick up so I can focus on fixing past mistakes. I really shouldn’t do this. But then again maybe I should. I don’t know. There are quite a few guitar makers that have run into trouble financially and mentally and I’m glad that I can say that I came out of the other side with my life intact and willing to carry on doing what I feel so was born to do. Which is not to steal money but make the best guitars I can. I will never give up and I hope this will one day be behind us both. Maybe you have had problems yourself and can maybe understand a little of what I have experienced. Again, IDK. I am trying. Thanks. Jon."

 

So as you can see, and as I described previously, all the excuses in the world why he hasn't tried to right the situation over the space of the years I've been having to deal with him, while stopping short of actually DOING SO or even trying to ascertain what it would take to finally resolve matters. 

[Geek99]

Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel seems to have been switched off. As someone who has been really, really poor I sympathise with possible tunnel vision about debt but I do also think he could have done things, and treated people, much better 

[EddieG]

21 minutes ago, Geek99 said:

Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel seems to have been switched off. As someone who has been really, really poor I sympathise with possible tunnel vision about debt but I do also think he could have done things, and treated people, much better 

Totally agree with you.👍🏻

 

If this occurred over the space of six months and I turned up to badmouth him to all and sundry without giving him a chance to sort things, then I'd fully expect people asking me to give him a chance at rectifying it.
I feel I was way beyond what other people would have probably considered generously reasonable, and he took my good nature and stomped on it. Every single time he asked for a concession, I gave it. And he ultimately threw that back in my face every time.

 

And even now, the opportunity is there to ask "how can I make this right?", and he hasn't bothered.

Instead, he immediately reverted to the type I described him as. 

[Baloney Balderdash]

I quite like how they look, and I am a big fan of typical bartione guitar scale length basses too.

 

If I had the money I wouldn't mind the 28" scale fretless one.

 

Quite reasonable priced too.

 

 

Edit!: Reading up on the experience some people have had with this builder, I think I'd pass, even if I had the money.

 

What an absolute mess.

 

Edited February 1 by Baloney Balderdash