Mixing Spiros

[NickD]

Does anyone do this?

 

I have a set of Mittels on, and while I love the sound across the board they're bloody hard work by the time I'm halfway up the board (think the riffy part of Night In Tunisia). A combination of tension and action screws my hands pretty quickly. I was considering leaving B and E as they are, and trying Weichs on the A D and G.

 

What I'd like to understand is how different the tension is, and what difference there would be in tone between the different strings, what would I lose in terms of projection and punch/growl?

 

Or should I just man up a bit and get it together.

 

Cheers!

[Burns-bass]

I’m no expert, but I found swapping to Weichs was a game changer in terms of my dexterity and I found no difference in terms of sound.

 

Personally, I’d do the swap on all strings, but that’s just me.

[NickD]

Thanks!

 

I did consider that but it looks like they don't do a Low B in Weich, so the Mittel would have to stay. I don't really have much of an issue with the B and E as the action is obviously easier low down, which is where I spend most of the time on those strings, and being fatter they don't hammer my fingertips as much.

[SubsonicSimpleton]

Thomastic do a lot of different spiro sets - there are a couple of handy resources over on talkbass (don't have a link to hand) notably a big spreadsheet that normalises tension data to one scale length/pitch so you can make meaningful comparisons - I think the person who under took this project has the username doublemidi. There is also a tension calulator that lets you precisely calculate what the string tension is if you detuned by a semitone/tone, which is probably the quickest way to determine how comfortable you will be with the change in tension.

 

[NickD]

I'll go and have a look for that, cheers!

[Clarky]

This should help

 

[NickD]

Thanks Clarky!

 

Looking around it seems it's quite common to use a mittel E with weich for the rest. So me keeping the B and E mittel wouldn't be unusual. The narrower guage would probably require bridge work though. I'll investigate further.

 

I suppose the sensible thing would be to book it in to Thwaites and see what they think. I think the action could come down a touch too, and my bridge is as low as it will go.

[Burns-bass]

24 minutes ago, NickD said:

Thanks Clarky!

 

Looking around it seems it's quite common to use a mittel E with weich for the rest. So me keeping the B and E mittel wouldn't be unusual. The narrower guage would probably require bridge work though. I'll investigate further.

 

I suppose the sensible thing would be to book it in to Thwaites and see what they think. I think the action could come down a touch too, and my bridge is as low as it will go.

The bridge on mine was fine swapping from Mittels to Weichs. Didn’t need any work and the action is fine.

[NickD]

That's handy to know... Cheers!

[Clarky]

Seconded. The only time I had to adjust the bridge slots (or nut) was when I swapped to massive gauge guts. Any steel string should work on your bridge. FWIW, I had great success with Spiro Solos 3/4 tuned to EADG (aka orchestral) when I had Spiros as the tension was very easy on my hands and they still had that characteristic growl. I believe Miroslav Vitous uses the same and he has a wonderful tone. See here
 

 

[Beer of the Bass]

I've had 3/4 Mittels, 3/4 Weichs and 4/4 Mittels on the same bass over about 15 years, but never mixed them. On my bass the Weichs weren't obviously quieter under most playing conditions, though the absolute ceiling of volume I could get out of them came a little earlier. The attack was a little less immediate with the Weichs too, making for a slightly more airy pizz character. A lot of people do use a Mittel E with a Weich set, or even a Stark E with a Mittel set, so the heavier E seems to work for them.

[JoeEvans]

Looking at the chart it appears that you can use 4/4 strings on a 3/4 bass and get a slightly lower tension - is that right?

[Beer of the Bass]

9 minutes ago, JoeEvans said:

Looking at the chart it appears that you can use 4/4 strings on a 3/4 bass and get a slightly lower tension - is that right?

 

Yes, this is quite commonly done with Spirocores. I read somewhere that most US dealers were only stocking the 4/4 sets for many years, so a lot of players weren't even aware of the diffent sets available. I'm using a 4/4 Mittel set on a 3/4 bass, and those are my favourite so far. There's a small amount of the full string thickness around the peg at the scroll end, which is less than ideal, but Spirocores are robust enough that this doesn't seem to affect them negatively.

[NickA]

Man up! 😉😁

 

I had full strength Spiro's on my 4/4 and no trouble with night in Tunisia .... But is your action too high? You can go really low with high tension strings. Higher positions are much easier since I dropped the bridge a bit and thumb position possible without injury.

 

Nb: switched to full strength Eva pirazis a couple of years back, to make bowing easier, intending to swap Spiro's back in for jazz, but the Eva's are ok and stay put ... I'd probably struggle with the Spiro's now!

[NickD]

12 hours ago, NickA said:

Man up! 😉😁

 

I had full strength Spiro's on my 4/4 and no trouble with night in Tunisia .... But is your action too high? You can go really low with high tension strings. Higher positions are much easier since I dropped the bridge a bit and thumb position possible without injury.

 

Nb: switched to full strength Eva pirazis a couple of years back, to make bowing easier, intending to swap Spiro's back in for jazz, but the Eva's are ok and stay put ... I'd probably struggle with the Spiro's now!

 

I think I'm going to look at action first. 

 

I've just measured and I'm running - B = 9mm, E = 11mm, A = 13mm, D = 11mm, G = 9mm.

 

It's fine in the first few positions, but gets trickier further up. Unfortunately my bridge is as low as it will go, so I'll have to get it looked at.

[Beer of the Bass]

It's hard to say how it'll play along the length of the fingerboard as that varies with the amount of relief, but that does sound a bit higher than I'd go with Spiro Mittels as a mostly pizz player. Yours seems like it may be set up with arco playing in mind too, with the middle strings higher.

I'm away down at 5mm G to 8mm E currently - I played it 2 or 3mm higher for a long time, but a lot of players I enjoy have similar setups and it works fine for me.

Edited March 25, 2023 by Beer of the Bass

[NickD]

Just to update.... What a difference a visit to the professionals can make. 

 

I finally got the chance to drop it into Thwaites. I figured that while it seemed solid enough, I'd ask them to give it a bit of an MOT, just to make sure nothing was going on that would cause me trouble in the near future, and to see if it was a candidate for bringing the action down a touch. They got back to me after a week and said that everything is fine, and that a simple reprofiling of the bridge would sort the action, so I asked them to go ahead.

 

I picked it up this morning, and the difference is astonishing, it's so easy to play the whole length of the fingerboard. With what they have done to the action I don't need to move away from the Mittels, they're fine as they are now. I can't really perceive any loss of tone or volume, aside from a bit less thump (which I had been trying to minimise anyway) and a little more 'mwah', which is absolutely fine by me.

 

Thanks to everyone for their input!