The sad decline of Denmark St for bass players

[Lee]

Hello! I'm feeling sad and alarmed at the decline of Denmark St - particularly for bass players. I clocked something wasn't right about a year ago when looking in the Bass Cellar (with cash on me to buy) and noticing there was a slow turnover of stock with very few new additions and many dusty basses remaining unsold. The shop as always remains dimly lit and many key brands are now missing with a general lack of enthusiasm, loving care and attention - even nice lighting would be a start and perhaps a cloth to wipe off the dust too!
A source told a few months ago that the account for Musicground was often 'on stop' and was the reason why the 'chain' in Denmark street weren't getting many deliveries of new stock and why customers are being quoted long lead times (whether this is true or not I can't say but this is what I was told).
When I went to Denmark St last weekend (wanting to buy a bass) I went back to the Bass Cellar and was shocked to see the same dusty basses still on the racks unsold and a large number of Stagg basses and cheap Peaveys! There weren't as many Fenders as usual and not one single Squier AT ALL!
I can understand Rose Morris selling Staggs etc as they sell alot of educational material and probably cater for schools and people starting out and it's also good that the Bass Cellar stocks a few of these brands too to cater for all budgets and experience but I don't understand why the supposed 'specialist' bass shop which we all need is now filling more and more of its space with these brands and seemingly not making any effort to source new and exciting basses and products currently being talked about and sought after. I went across the road to Rockers and its the same situation there - except worse - they've only got about 20 basses (many non-descript no-brands)left in stock and the assistant told me they won't be selling basses anymore - they're phasing them out and it will only be the Bass Cellar!
So, I went to Wunjos to see if they also do new basses and the guy offered to order me the bass I wanted with a lead time of 5 days (and not 2-3 weeks or even 6 MONTHS as quoted by the assistant in the Bass Cellar!) He gave me a good price - and no word of a lie - I came away having ordered 2 basses in the range! So, in case people weren't aware - Wunjos isn't just a second hand/vintage shop - they will order new ranges in and offer a good deal too with lovely smiles and good old fashioned service which is increasingly hard to find! Thank goodness for these guys!!
Am I getting old and cynical or does the Musicground chain of the street seem a bit limited, with nothing in stock, long lead times and a decrease in enthusiasm and product knowledge? There are so many exciting new products and basses hitting the market with good reviews etc and it feels that Denmark St (with the exception of Wunjos who are lovely and bend over backwards to make you happy AND don't look bored, taking the time to have a conversation about guitars etc) has let its foot off the gas and is getting left behind - in fact it appears not to care. It's worrying when the people running these shops (whom I assume are bass players/ guitarists themselves) don't seem to care or even share the same level of excitement and joy in the products as us ...

[OldGit]

Welcome to the forum, Lee.
As you may expect, we've been around this a few times Do a search

'Tis all the fault of the Internet :ph34r:

Now, using the aformentioned devil's wires, may I recommend you have a look at The Bass Merchant and BassDirect, both friends of the forum - and neither in London, and Masons. I am sure others will chip in with more good bass shops..

[url="http://www.bassmerchant.com/index.php"]http://www.bassmerchant.com/index.php[/url]

[url="http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/Home.html"]http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_sp...lists/Home.html[/url]

[url="http://www.mansons.co.uk/shopping/categories/pedulla-bass-guitars/"]http://www.mansons.co.uk/shopping/categori...a-bass-guitars/[/url]

Edited April 28, 2009 by OldGit

[cytania]

The miracle is that Denmark Street hasn't been turned into winebars and offices or 'The Tin Pan Alley Experience'. That's prime London real estate pardner. I guess truth is shops there do try for the high end, with premium instruments. These represent discretionary income that is in short supply at present.

That said I'd have though that the general rules of retailing apply. You discount to clear stock that's sticking. Even if you take a loss you're clearing store space for an item that will stand a better chance of making a profit. Goddamn credit crunch, goddamn toxic yankie debt... grouse.. grouse...

I'm very saddened to see the decline of physical stores (Nottingham has lost 2 in the last year). Musical instruments, like clothing, are one of those goods you really want to handle before buying. There's so much personal 'feel' involved. Buying over the net only works if you are totally convinced by a brand and it maintains absolute consistency. Otherwise you may find 'oh they've changed the neck profile' or 'oh the finish looks different now' etc.

[waynepunkdude]

You may be interested in this too.

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=30412"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=30412[/url]

[XB26354]

Get on the Northern Line to Camden and get yourself to the Gallery. Best bass shop around.

[OldGit]

[quote name='XB26354' post='474501' date='Apr 28 2009, 07:19 PM']Get on the Northern Line to Camden and get yourself to the Gallery. Best bass shop around.[/quote]

Argh! How did I forget the Gallery!? Getting old
[url="http://www.thebassgallery.com/"]http://www.thebassgallery.com/[/url]

[The Funk]

[quote name='cytania' post='474162' date='Apr 28 2009, 01:07 PM']The miracle is that Denmark Street hasn't been turned into winebars and offices or 'The Tin Pan Alley Experience'.[/quote]

What was CK saying about that? I think he said the plans are for it to all be knocked down and turned into something else. I'd be glad if Wunjo's survived. I was sad to see Music Ground with all the high end amps and effects disappear - even though that was all part of the same monster chain.

Edited April 28, 2009 by The Funk

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='The Funk' post='474633' date='Apr 28 2009, 10:17 PM']What was CK saying about that? I think he said the plans are for it to all be knocked down and turned into something else. I'd be glad if Wunjo's survived. I was sad to see Music Ground with all the high end amps and effects disappear - even though that was all part of the same monster chain.[/quote]

Probably a function of my advancing years, but I thought that Music Ground moved into Andy's.

As for Wunjos, with their "lovely smiles" and "who are lovely and bend over backwards to make you happy AND don't look bored, taking the time to have a conversation about guitars etc" YMM considerably V.

1. First time I ever went in, the counter-guy bollocked me for mentioning, in convo, that I'd bought an amp off the bay. "People like you will put me out of business" he snarled and promptly blanked me.

2. Some time later, one could see a s/h semi on the wall, maybe an es-135 or a Gretsch with a 2 inch split in the top visible from across the store, priced £1000+

3. A few months ago, a salesman kept following me round the store even though I told him I'd just like to have a quiet browse of his stock. Which, at the time, mostly comprised over-priced, clapped out tat with a few interesting pieces. Mostly guitars though and not that many basses. Which the sales guy acknowledged. "We're mostly guitars" he said.

I find it interesting that our experiences differ so much. But I suppose things have perked up enormously since my last visit.

[quote]Am I getting old and cynical or does the Musicground chain of the street seem a bit limited, with nothing in stock, long lead times and a decrease in enthusiasm and product knowledge?[/quote]

Am I getting old and cynical indeed...

Word to the wise: It's also possibly a bit risky publishing unsubstantiated allegations about wunjo's principal competitor's financial position.

Edited April 28, 2009 by skankdelvar

[bumnote]

You dont work for Wunjos do you?

[Golchen]

I've been to central london twice in the past 6 month specifically to look for basses, and both times I was extremely dissapointed. Couldn't find a single 5 string Fender Jazz anywhere. Personally, I'm beginning to think that the music shop has had its day.

[OutToPlayJazz]

So all in all, we know a lot of these formerly prestige London establishments are suffering the same fate as so many music shops the world over since the advent of internet selling from warehouses.

Just curious here, but what did the OP end up ordering?

[Tee]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='474709' date='Apr 29 2009, 12:05 AM']I thought that Music Ground moved into Andy's.[/quote]

Indeed it has. I've seen Andy in there too, which i'm not sure is a good thing...

[budget bassist]

It's a shame, yeah, but nevermind eh? There are several threads on the tossers at the bass cellar, and i'd feel little remorse in torching the place (after having removed a few choice items )

Get yourself over to the galllery in camden, mate. It's the new bass cellar, with less lip.

Edited April 29, 2009 by budget bassist

[brummie]

A friend of mine works for the DSS in Denmark St and has been told they will be moving office within a year as their building is coming down, whether any others around it will be pulled down is unknown.
D St is always a bit of a dissapointment but I'd hate to see it go - I don't do shops but make an exception for Denmark St.

[Skybone]

[quote]Am I getting old and cynical or does the Musicground chain of the street seem a bit limited[/quote]

No, MusicGround have always been crap at catering for the customer, though they've always been excellent at overcharging for everything, especially in their northern stores. Don't forget that they also own HiWatt AND JMI amps. I know a number of people who've ordered the new JMI ToneBender MkII Fuzz boxes from MusicGround (either eBay or the shop), paid for them, and then had to wait around 2-3 months for them to be delivered.

I was incredibly saddened to hear that they'd got such a foothold in Denmark St (ie owning about 80% of the shops - which is why they all had the same kit in stock), and last time I went down there for a nosey, you could tell all the identi-kit MusicGround shops because of their identi-kit stock sold by identi-kit staff. This rant is of course IMO...

[josh3184]

[quote name='brummie' post='474877' date='Apr 29 2009, 10:51 AM']I don't do shops but make an exception for Denmark St.[/quote]

+1 I made a point of visiting when I was down in London. I dont even visit my local music shops much anymore!

[RhysP]

The shops in Denmark St. have got nobody but themselves to blame for their decline IMO.

The attitude of the staff in all the shops and their prices (the most expensive place to buy a guitar IN THE WORLD,apparently) have been appalling for years, long before the Musicground mafia took over the street.
I don't even bother going down there when I'm in London anymore - same old sh*te hanging on the walls, same old w***ers behind the counters.

[dannybuoy]

I played my first ever bass on Denmark St, some fretless acoustic, whilst out shopping for an acoustic guitar. That converted me, and I went back the following week looking for a fretless electric, and ended up with a Yamaha RBX from the Bass Cellar. Staff were pretty grumpy though! Went back a year or so later looking for a Squier Vintage Modified Precision, and not one shop in the area had one. I could have ordered one in for £250, but thought why do that when I can get one online for £180 delivered? 'Tis the way things are heading, these shops can't really compete with online retailers. I have never bought a pedal from a store either, they are always massively overpriced. For instance the last purchase I made was an EHX Nano Small Stone for £38 online, and it's £60 in some shops! I just pop in to look at the merchandise, or buy a pick/cable/book if I need too these days...

[budget bassist]

[quote name='dannybuoy' post='475279' date='Apr 29 2009, 04:13 PM']I played my first ever bass on Denmark St, some fretless acoustic, whilst out shopping for an acoustic guitar. That converted me, and I went back the following week looking for a fretless electric, and ended up with a Yamaha RBX from the Bass Cellar. Staff were pretty grumpy though! Went back a year or so later looking for a Squier Vintage Modified Precision, and not one shop in the area had one. I could have ordered one in for £250, but thought why do that when I can get one online for £180 delivered? 'Tis the way things are heading, these shops can't really compete with online retailers. I have never bought a pedal from a store either, they are always massively overpriced. For instance the last purchase I made was an EHX Nano Small Stone for £38 online, and it's £60 in some shops! I just pop in to look at the merchandise, or buy a pick/cable/book if I need too these days...[/quote]
There's a shop near me called "hotrox" that's full of pedals at internet prices, it's amazing! I urge anybody in nottingham to give them a visit!

[MacDaddy]

[quote name='Tee' post='474848' date='Apr 29 2009, 10:21 AM']Indeed it has. I've seen Andy in there too, which i'm not sure is a good thing...[/quote]

Definitely NOT a good thing. That man is a liar and a thief, and I have documentation supplied to the Courts to prove it.

[OldGit]

[quote name='dannybuoy' post='475279' date='Apr 29 2009, 05:13 PM']'Tis the way things are heading, these shops can't really compete with online retailers.[/quote]

They [b]can[/b] compete with the online people but many stores seem unable to grasp the concept that [b]good customer service [/b]will win over price differential most of the time, especially on large, expensive purchases.

Plus a few bricks and mortar shops I know will match Internet prices.
They get my business because that is a big part of customer service - going the extra mile.

[skankdelvar]

Just a thought. Most types of retailers offer crap service, possibly because they're often horrible places to work with no training and a brooding manager to boot.

Why should musical instrument retail be any better? Perhaps we're expecting too much from the sector.

Edited April 30, 2009 by skankdelvar

[Spoombung]

The Bass Cellar is BIG attraction for Warwick fans. Apart from a few Peaveys and Ibanezes that's about all they sell. Hell, they could start a riot there!

[XB26354]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='476017' date='Apr 30 2009, 02:15 PM']Just a thought. Most types of retailers offer crap service, possibly because they're often horrible places to work with no training and a brooding manager to boot.

Why should musical instrument retail be any better? Perhaps we're expecting too much from the sector.[/quote]

... and add to that the fact that pay in music shops is almost always crap!

[BigRedX]

There's nothing at all sad about the decline of Denmark Street for bass players. It is and always has been full of overpriced mainstream crap. Anyone with anything about them used to go to the Bass Centre in Wapping and now goes to the Gallery in Camden.