Problematic creators and their music

[Waddo Soqable]

10 minutes ago, zbd1960 said:

Musicians with questionable behaviour... It was ever thus. For reference, I suggest Gesualdo, Renaissance composer... murderer...

Henry VIII aparrently was a quite a hand on the lute, and wrote a few tunes by all accounts... 

[PaulThePlug]

10 minutes ago, Waddo Soqable said:

Henry VIII aparrently was a quite a hand on the lute...

Didn't he experiment with headless?

[Waddo Soqable]

1 minute ago, PaulThePlug said:

Didn't he experiment with headless?

More than once I believe 

[Pseudonym]

4 hours ago, zbd1960 said:

Musicians with questionable behaviour... It was ever thus. For reference, I suggest Gesualdo, Renaissance composer... murderer...

And surely it was appropriate to give Snow the benefit of the doubt over whatever transpired down the lane.

[tauzero]

6 hours ago, Frank Blank said:

 

Speak for yourself, I'd like a nice slice of cake and a cup of tea.

 

Oooh, good point. Sub Zero made a chocolate-iced sponge cake last night and I think there's still some left.

[Bassassin]

22 hours ago, Pseudonym said:

And surely it was appropriate to give Snow the benefit of the doubt over whatever transpired down the lane.

 

I'd always assumed he was on his way to kill Euronymous.

[Pseudonym]

2 hours ago, Bassassin said:

I'd always assumed he was on his way to kill Euronymous.

 

I always assumed I'd follow it better if I heard it at half speed. Must try that sometime.

[Steve Browning]

13 hours ago, Bassassin said:

 

I'd always assumed he was on his way to kill Euronymous.

 

I guess he didn't succeed, or we wouldn't have the electrical goods shops.

[G-Lo]

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/may/28/nick-cave-speaks-out-against-boycotting-songs-because-of-creators-actions

 

Mr Cave weighs in...

[tegs07]

10 minutes ago, G-Lo said:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/may/28/nick-cave-speaks-out-against-boycotting-songs-because-of-creators-actions

 

Mr Cave weighs in...

“I think we got rid of religion, essentially, which may or may not be a good thing, but there’s a vacuum that we created that we don’t really know what to do with”

 

I agree with this. To be honest many of the foundations that previous generations based their moral and spiritual character upon have been torn down, for good reason in many instances, but IMO there does appear to be some floundering in the void and more tearing down than creating.

As my old boss used to say “bring me solutions not problems”.

[G-Lo]

8 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

“I think we got rid of religion, essentially, which may or may not be a good thing, but there’s a vacuum that we created that we don’t really know what to do with”

 

I agree with this. To be honest many of the foundations that previous generations based their moral and spiritual character upon have been torn down, for good reason in many instances, but IMO there does appear to be some floundering in the void and more tearing down than creating.

As my old boss used to say “bring me solutions not problems”.

I do think it needs recognition. While not religious myself its a fact people need a smaller community than modern cities and some faith to anchor their life. Basically we need tribe and faith which expresses itself as football identity, subcultures, flag waving whatever. I dont think religion is the answer but the evolution of society coupled with the turbo connectivity of social media has polarised people and sharpened divisions. We could all do with a little effort in listening to the other viewpoint. 

I also remain thoroughly indecisive about the topic at hand...

[Doctor J]

We need to stop teaching people to worship money and coach them to push only towards materialistic goals, we don't need religion to do that, nor should we accept it as the default position in the absence of religion.

[Frank Blank]

The vacuum left by the decline of religion has been filled by the Internet, and why not? After all, facts, science, proof and considered opinions are 'difficult' they take education, thought, reason, the ability to discuss tough topics in the abstract, why bother actually thinking when you can go online? There you can find other folk that believe what you believe (without any basis in fact and untroubled by a moral compass) and you can gather on a platform from which you hoist your flag and shout your own horse shít variant. Argue all you like but the age of reason has gone, history and facts are there but they need reading, engaging with, as does any subject, to understand and comprehend where we currently are but with the infinitely pliable echo chamber of the Internet as an alternative to books, learning and understanding... well, we haven't got a chance.

[Phil Starr]

1 hour ago, G-Lo said:

 

I also remain thoroughly indecisive about the topic at hand...

There is probably no other rational place to be. Morality or even taste aren't subjects for objective measurement or double blind testing, there isn't an objective right or wrong so people who are 'certain' that no song with the  sexism/racism/whatever 'ism you choose is acceptable if it is a good 'toon' are displaying no more insight than those who wish to cancel those who offend their personal creed and sense of decency. It's only reasonable to struggle with this and the interesting bit of this debate are about where the lines are for each of us who are also wondering where to set our personal lines. Playing in a band means compromise. No two people share the same moral space IME so the chances of four or five band members who have nothing in common other than music agreeing on every song are pretty long odds. There are very few artists or songs that are completely repugnant amongst thousands that are wildly popular and fun to play so it isn't a big issue. It is interesting though to discuss with those who like me are 'indecisive'.

[G-Lo]

1 hour ago, Frank Blank said:

The vacuum left by the decline of religion has been filled by the Internet, and why not? After all, facts, science, proof and considered opinions are 'difficult' they take education, thought, reason, the ability to discuss tough topics in the abstract, why bother actually thinking when you can go online? There you can find other folk that believe what you believe (without any basis in fact and untroubled by a moral compass) and you can gather on a platform from which you hoist your flag and shout your own horse shít variant. Argue all you like but the age of reason has gone, history and facts are there but they need reading, engaging with, as does any subject, to understand and comprehend where we currently are but with the infinitely pliable echo chamber of the Internet as an alternative to books, learning and understanding... well, we haven't got a chance.

Spot on. The problem with religion has always been that it deals in absolute truths and is inherently a conservative force- and a glue for social cohesion. The internet has evolved in dealing with absolute truths in multiple directions and is fanaticising people in different direction, while gluing different factions together. Non- political topics, like climate, social freedoms and covid have become yoked to political groupings and the fringe is becoming mainstream whether thats fascism or rough pornography.

Having said that, in this era of Absolute Truths we've lost the distinction between what a 20 year old drunk Hetfield said in 82, Bob Marley's subtle homophobia in his lyrics in 70's Jamaican society and whether its OK to say whatever your shrivelled up black heart vomits out now. Subtlety and shades of opinion are dead.

Edited May 29, 2023 by G-Lo

[G-Lo]

3 minutes ago, Phil Starr said:

There is probably no other rational place to be. Morality or even taste aren't subjects for objective measurement or double blind testing, there isn't an objective right or wrong so people who are 'certain' that no song with the  sexism/racism/whatever 'ism you choose is acceptable if it is a good 'toon' are displaying no more insight than those who wish to cancel those who offend their personal creed and sense of decency. It's only reasonable to struggle with this and the interesting bit of this debate are about where the lines are for each of us who are also wondering where to set our personal lines. Playing in a band means compromise. No two people share the same moral space IME so the chances of four or five band members who have nothing in common other than music agreeing on every song are pretty long odds. There are very few artists or songs that are completely repugnant amongst thousands that are wildly popular and fun to play so it isn't a big issue. It is interesting though to discuss with those who like me are 'indecisive'.

Absolutely.

I dont like Morissey's opinions any more. It's moot as I'm not a Smiths fan anyway, but should Marr be boycotted because of Morissey? The little I've heard from Marr finds me in agreement a lot. I try to bear in mind what world the music is inhabiting. And I've been drawing my own lines since I was young. We're all capable enough to make our own decisions.

[Damnthatlazlo]

4 hours ago, G-Lo said:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/may/28/nick-cave-speaks-out-against-boycotting-songs-because-of-creators-actions

 

Mr Cave weighs in...

Well, he would say that wouldn’t he! 🤣🤣

But it’s all about the line. I don’t know if Cave has ever really crossed it in terms of his behaviour. Unpleasant, selfish, narcissistic, like most junkies right enough. But never to my knowledge reprehensible. Admittedly, I never ‘got’ him till I watched him live and only really know about his past tangentially. He comes up in Tracy thorns book about go between, that chillies meme, friends stories who love him. 

[Frank Blank]

27 minutes ago, G-Lo said:

Spot on.

 

We agree? Excellent. Let's go shoot anyone who doesn't...

 

😉

[G-Lo]

8 minutes ago, Frank Blank said:

 

We agree? Excellent. Let's go shoot anyone who doesn't...

 

😉

Whoa whoa whoa, I'm all about the stabbing. BLOCK AND DELETE FOR YOU!

[Pseudonym]

49 minutes ago, Frank Blank said:

 

We agree? Excellent. Let's go shoot anyone who doesn't...

 

😉

 

39 minutes ago, G-Lo said:

Whoa whoa whoa, I'm all about the stabbing. BLOCK AND DELETE FOR YOU!

This is why Ronnie and Reggie were such a formidable team. None of this “either-or” nonsense for them.

[Frank Blank]

9 hours ago, Pseudonym said:

This is why Ronnie and Reggie were such a formidable team. None of this “either-or” nonsense for them.

...and they loved their good old Mum.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Frank Blank
A brief attack of aphasia.

[Pseudonym]

2 hours ago, Frank Blank said:

...and they loved their good old Mum.

And Ronnie was a bit of a dauber, but you never see his stuff in the Tate, do you? Millennials and their snowflake woke agenda, you see.

Edited May 30, 2023 by Pseudonym

[Frank Blank]

5 hours ago, Pseudonym said:

And Ronnie was a bit of a dauber, but you never see his stuff in the Tate, do you? Millennials and their snowflake woke agenda, you see.

[leftybassman392]

 

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...

[tauzero]

8 hours ago, Pseudonym said:

And Ronnie was a bit of a dauber, but you never see his stuff in the Tate, do you? Millennials and their snowflake woke agenda, you see.

 

He'd have had some on display if he'd just gone on a few Pride marches.