Yet Another "how do I get this synth sound?" Thread

[Sharkfinger]

My band are doing Chaka Khan's Ain't Nobody. Using a bit of fuzz is OK but just not the same.  I'm playing it on a downtuned (Eb) 4 string, so adding octave just sounds weird (and doesn't track) on the intro/main verse riff.

 

I bought a Behringer BSY600 to try a synth but after a couple of hours trying different settings, I can't even get close to it.  One of the main issues is has a 'rate' which can be turned down but not off completely.  I just need it to have the same consistent sound not fluctuate.

 

Can anyone help me out with what pedal and settings would get me in the ball park.  Don't want to spend a huge amount on the pedal.

[BigRedX]

It really depends what parts of the synth sound you consider essential and what isn't.

 

For me one of the important elements is the really short release of every note, which gives the sound it's definition. The original would have either been played from a keyboard or sequenced using a device like a Roland Microcomposer which gives you far more control over the envelope of both the filter and amplifier then you can easily get from a bass guitar into effects.

 

If still want to try it, you will need either a filter that will cut all the sound at its lowest position or also have an envelope shaper in you signal chain which comes after the fuzz and filter, but is being triggered by the clean sound of your bass, so that you can get that sharp cutoff to every note without the "thump" that normally accompanies muting the strings on a bass guitar (and which be accented by the fuzz).

 

Personally by the time I'd found the right pedals and worked on my technique to play this cleanly enough, I'd have been able learn how to play it on a keyboard.

[SumOne]

The Future Impact can get close to that lower part Eb octave. I'm pretty sure the C4 can too.

 

After a lot of time with synth pedals I'm going the route @BigRedX suggests though. Bass synth pedals are fun but there's usually a bit of a battle with tracking, range, hands-on editability, and issues playing more than one note at a time. Even a cheap keyboard wins on almost all aspects - there are things you can do with keys much easier than with a Bass. 

 

I guess it depends what you want to recreate though - just the lower part Eb octave of 'ain't nobody' is do-able but most of the keyboard line has polyphonic stuff with chords and there are the upper register bits which I reckon need a keyboard to recreate.

 

 

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by SumOne

[BigRedX]

After having spent most of the 80s trying to make synths sound like guitars and then the following decade making guitars and basses sound like synths, I have finally learnt that it is far easier to use the right instrument for the sound and feel that you want (remember that unless you have masterful technique you will never quite get the same feel on a bass guitar to something originally played on a keyboard or by sequencer).

[Quatschmacher]

2 hours ago, Sharkfinger said:

My band are doing Chaka Khan's Ain't Nobody. Using a bit of fuzz is OK but just not the same.  I'm playing it on a downtuned (Eb) 4 string, so adding octave just sounds weird (and doesn't track) on the intro/main verse riff.

 

I bought a Behringer BSY600 to try a synth but after a couple of hours trying different settings, I can't even get close to it.  One of the main issues is has a 'rate' which can be turned down but not off completely.  I just need it to have the same consistent sound not fluctuate.

 

Can anyone help me out with what pedal and settings would get me in the ball park.  Don't want to spend a huge amount on the pedal.

Future Impact if going the pedal route, sound clip here:

 

https://on.soundcloud.com/fRnbni4mTEmCcz9E7

 

@SumOne is selling one for a very good price too. 

Edited March 23, 2023 by Quatschmacher

[Quatschmacher]

If attempting on a non-synth pedal, you need one that will ideally create a 25% duty cycle pulse wave. There are distortion pedals which produce square and pulse clipping. Mastotron is pretty good at this. 

Edited March 23, 2023 by Quatschmacher

[fretmeister]

I think my approach would be to blend the regular bass tone with the synth tone in a way that hints at the original tone rather than trying to match it. Probably with quite a hard gate on it to get the note cut off right.

 

I've only had my C4 for a week and I'm very much in the learning phase but I'd be surprised if it couldn't do it.

 

Another pedal that I've had great success with for this "close enough for a gig" approach is the old Digitech Bass Synth Wah. It tracks very well (actually better than the C4) and has a great thick tone. They can be a little low in output but if blended with some clean using a LS-2 the level of that loop can be boosted a little to match.

 

The biggest secret to making it sound like 1 tone is to make sure the attack and the decay of the tones match. I do that by compressing each side separately.

Then gate it for the hard cut off like a keyboard. you can always turn the gate on and off for different parts of the song as needed.

[Quatschmacher]

4 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

I think my approach would be to blend the regular bass tone with the synth tone in a way that hints at the original tone rather than trying to match it. Probably with quite a hard gate on it to get the note cut off right.

 

I've only had my C4 for a week and I'm very much in the learning phase but I'd be surprised if it couldn't do it.

 

Another pedal that I've had great success with for this "close enough for a gig" approach is the old Digitech Bass Synth Wah. It tracks very well (actually better than the C4) and has a great thick tone. They can be a little low in output but if blended with some clean using a LS-2 the level of that loop can be boosted a little to match.

 

The biggest secret to making it sound like 1 tone is to make sure the attack and the decay of the tones match. I do that by compressing each side separately.

Then gate it for the hard cut off like a keyboard. you can always turn the gate on and off for different parts of the song as needed.

I did attempt this patch on the C4 but had to approximate the waveform using the FM engine as there’s no pulse width control on C4’s square waves. It’s OK but not as accurate as the FI patch I did. 

[Sharkfinger]

50 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

Another pedal that I've had great success with for this "close enough for a gig" approach is the old Digitech Bass Synth Wah. It tracks very well (actually better than the C4) and has a great thick tone. They can be a little low in output but if blended with some clean using a LS-2 the level of that loop can be boosted a little to match.

 

Damn, I had one for a while and sold it.  Didn't have anything I could use it on.  Serves me right....

 

"Close enough for a gig" is what I'm after.  

[pete.young]

I couldn't find any useable synth sounds in the Bass Synth Wah, but the octaver was really good.

 

I got fairly close to this with a Korg G5. The Zsynth patch in the Zoom pedals is supposedly a clone of the G5, so an MS-60B or Zoom B1-4 patch with that effect in it might be a starting point. You'd probably want to add some fairly severe EQ in front of it to make it track and trigger properly, which would make the dry signal sound a bit weird.

[Sharkfinger]

I'm looking at the EHX mono synth but I'm reading that the tracking is not the best either.  Might have to bite the bullet and get a Future Impact or C4.

[Sharkfinger]

On 23/03/2023 at 10:23, Quatschmacher said:

@SumOne is selling one for a very good price too. 

 

Bullet has been bitten.  Will be hitting you up for that patch, if you don't mind.

[lidl e]

1 hour ago, Sharkfinger said:

 

Bullet has been bitten.  Will be hitting you up for that patch, if you don't mind.

You can get the patch here.

 

https://auraplug.com/fidatabase2/downloads/aint-nobody/

 

You'll need to register and use the midi adapter your man threw in to add it to the pedal

 

To me, the FI is the single greatest effect pedal of all time. 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by lidl e

[Quatschmacher]

1 hour ago, Sharkfinger said:

 

Bullet has been bitten.  Will be hitting you up for that patch, if you don't mind.

Great stuff. It’s already available in the cloud along with the hundreds of others I’ve made and shared.

 

Bear in mind, you may not get instantly good results. You do need to really concentrate on muting technique to get the best out of the pedal. It’s worth the effort as it’ll make the pedal respond better but will also improve your general bass playing. 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Quatschmacher

[Al Krow]

7 hours ago, Quatschmacher said:

Great stuff. It’s already available in the cloud along with the hundreds of others I’ve made and shared.

 

Bear in mind, you may not get instantly good results. You do need to really concentrate on muting technique to get the best out of the pedal. It’s worth the effort as it’ll make the pedal respond better but will also improve your general bass playing. 

 

Muting makes you a better bass player? Even when it's not appropriate for the particular bass line you're playing? Don't follow. 

[LukeFRC]

8 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

 

Muting makes you a better bass player? Even when it's not appropriate for the particular bass line you're playing? Don't follow. 

Quatschmacher has learned good muting technique so they can choose how to use it in a song, or not to get the best out of pedal synths.
I however have not got great muting technique. So I can't choose to vary my technique according to the song, can't get the best out of my pedal synths and nobody wants me playing in their band. 

Be like Quatschmacher

[Al Krow]

Haha ok.

 

I prefer pedals that don't make you change your technique to make them work but, instead, work with you. But maybe that's just me?

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Al Krow

[Woodinblack]

What synth do you need?

 

[Quatschmacher]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

 

Muting makes you a better bass player? Even when it's not appropriate for the particular bass line you're playing? Don't follow. 

Certainly, being able to mute at will when appropriate makes one a better bass player. It’s an integral part of being able to control note length. Nothing terribly controversial there.

 

I actually found using the FI a useful practice tool for diagnosing some technique issues I needed to work on. 

[Quatschmacher]

10 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

What synth do you need?

 

Wonderful!

[Al Krow]

6 hours ago, Quatschmacher said:

Certainly, being able to mute at will when appropriate makes one a better bass player. It’s an integral part of being able to control note length. Nothing terribly controversial there.

 

I actually found using the FI a useful practice tool for diagnosing some technique issues I needed to work on. 

 

Not debating that palm muting is a useful technique - I use it on plenty of material. It's being forced to use it all the time with the FI even when not appropriate to the song we're playing, just to avoid the FI pedal farting/glitching all over the place that I've an issue with.

[LukeFRC]

57 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

 

Not debating that palm muting is a useful technique - I use it on plenty of material. It's being forced to use it all the time with the FI even when not appropriate to the song we're playing, just to avoid the FI pedal farting/glitching all over the place that I've an issue with.

I thought we were talking about regular muting technique to play in an accurate way that synths like rather than palm muting ? 

[Al Krow]

3 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

I thought we were talking about regular muting technique to play in an accurate way that synths like rather than palm muting ? 

When you say "accurate" with normal muting are you not simply implying a more staccato style? But same point applies to having to use it all the time. 

 

The Boss SY-200 doesn't require you to adopt muting to avoid farting/glitching. The trade-off is not as rich synth tone as the FI delivers. So horses for courses, depending on what works best for you. 

[krispn]

I had to learn Ain’t Nobody for a dep gig I was asked to do and just played it on a clean bass tone. Maybe a bit of comp and light dirt but didn’t need the synth to make it work. Depends how close you want/need to recreate the sound. 
 

It’s a fun bass part. I recall playing it in drop d. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by krispn
Spellings

[BigRedX]

10 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Haha ok.

 

I prefer pedals that don't make you change your technique to make them work but, instead, work with you. But maybe that's just me?

 

Any effect that uses pitch or envelope tracking will probably require you to modify your technique to some degree if you want to to get consistent and usable results out of it.

 

The problem with the example in the OP is that the performance (before we even consider the sound) is very much derived from the fact that the original bass line would have been played using either a keyboard or a sequencer