Rickenbacker versus Chickenbacker

[chriswareham]

So I have these two bad boys to compare:

 

 

On the left is what was a typical AliExpress "Chickenbacker", and on the right is a Rickenbacker 4003 from 2018. The Chickenbacker has been upgraded with Retrovibe pickups, treble mount and knobs. The cheeky Rickenbacker logo printed onto the truss rod cover has also been sanded off. I thought it interesting to compare the two basses, so here's some stats:
 

                      Rickenbacker Chickenbacker
Scale Length          33 1/4"      34"
Nut Width             42mm         40mm
String Width (nut)    34mm         33mm
String Width (bridge) 52mm         55mm
Frets                 20           22
Body Depth            32mm         43mm
Truss Rod             Dual         Single
Ric O Sound           Yes          No

 

The neck on the Chickenbacker feels chunkier, but not in an unpleasant way. It's just more like a Fender Precision or Musicman Stringray than the Rickenbacker.

 

The bridges on both basses are terrible designs, and I notice that Rickenbacker have recently introduced a more practical design as well as a single truss rod on current production 4003 basses. The worst aspect of the Chickenbacker bridge is that there's no height adjustment for individual strings, and the bar that the saddles sit on is flat so it doesn't allow for the radius of the fretboard. I solved this by having the little metal pieces that sit under the E and G strings ground down.

 

In terms of build quality, the Chickenbacker's only production flaw is a sightly uneven binding at one point on the neck. Meanwhile, the Rickenbacker suffers a common issue - the treble pickup is not straight. This is a common problem, which I assume is left unaddressed because as the bass leaves the factory it has the plastic cover over it, but it becomes an issue if you want to fit a plastic "treble bezel".

 

Sound wise, they are very similar despite the difference in scale length and the treble pickup being closer to the bridge on the Chickenbacker. As for price - the Rickenbacker is around £3,200 to £3,800 if you can find one and this particular Chickenbacker was £320 shipped from China (plus £150 for the Retrovibe upgrades).

[Paul S]

Interesting.  What are the comparative weights, please?

[Cosmo Valdemar]

The pickups are in different places as well - both are closer to the bridge on the copy, with a greater spacing between the two.

The bridge pickup on the copy looks more like a Jazz Bass pickup position.

[chriswareham]

11 minutes ago, Paul S said:

Interesting.  What are the comparative weights, please?

 

Rickenbacker : 4.2Kg

Chickenbacker : 4.3Kg

 

Both basses are well balanced with no neck dive. There is certainly a lot more material to the Chickenbacker's body, so it must be a far less dense wood than on the Rickenbacker.

[chriswareham]

Oh, and a word on the finish to the body, rear of neck and headstock. The Chickenbacker has a far glossier and thicker finish. The finish on the Rickenbacker is incredibly thin and brittle, which surprised me as I was under the impression they were known for thick finishes that took a  lot of coats and buffing to produce.

[Waddo Soqable]

I've had a few Ricks and a few fakers, with the crazy price of real ones there's a good market for the fakers at 300ish quid I'd think.. Pity Ric didn't do a "Squier" type range made in the far east at reasonable prices, they'd sell loads. 

The thing I don't like about those particular chickenbackers is the bulbous contoured top and the very leaning back headstock, purely aesthetics I suppose

[PaulThePlug]

Any excuse to post pics of my AliExpress Chickenbacker... Custom 4001/4004 Commission Landed @ £200ish iirc.

Biggest Issue.. Neck Angle. But due to the neck angle, height at the bridge is high... Archtop or Les Paul like at 18mm.

I like the look of the Rick-o-like bridge, i had the A and D saddles shimmed with a 1mm or so washer, to follow the fretboard. But the Rick-o-like Bridge overhanged the body due to 34" scale length, With a new bridge... Super Elevation at the saddles.

I might line up the Rick-o-Like bridge with the saddles turned round, see if it looks like it will intonate?

Edited March 28, 2023 by PaulThePlug

[chriswareham]

Wow, that's a crazy elevation on the bridge saddles! I like the "checkerboard" binding on the body - my Greco RB700 faker had that.

[NikNik]

12 hours ago, PaulThePlug said:

Any excuse to post pics of my AliExpress Chickenbacker... Custom 4001/4004 Commission Landed @ £200ish iirc.

Biggest Issue.. Neck Angle. But due to the neck angle, height at the bridge is high... Archtop or Les Paul like at 18mm.

I like the look of the Rick-o-like bridge, i had the A and D saddles shimmed with a 1mm or so washer, to follow the fretboard. But the Rick-o-like Bridge overhanged the body due to 34" scale length, With a new bridge... Super Elevation at the saddles.

I might line up the Rick-o-Like bridge with the saddles turned round, see if it looks like it will intonate?

I never knew they angled the neck? I just assumed it was the headstock.

[miles'tone]

That looks great. I like the thicker thru-skunkstripe, reminds me of the 4005 at the headstock (which is the best looking headstock they've done inmho).

How's it playing now?

[Happy Jack]

On 28/03/2023 at 19:58, chriswareham said:

 

 

 

I look at that photo and I wonder, why? If you're simply copying an existing design then presumably you have a genuine example next to you so that you can take measurements etc. In that case, what was gained (for the copyist) in that trivial change to the shape of the p/g? In marginally changing the positions of the knobs and the flick-switch? In adding two frets so the upper horn no longer finishes at the 12th fret?

I'm not complaining, as such, just curious. Wouldn't it have been simpler (and more profitable) to clone the original design and produce something that could be [please select one only] affordable to those who can't afford a real one / more easily passed off as genuine by fraudsters?

 

[chriswareham]

I suspect that whichever factory in China originally "cloned" the 4003 did so from pictures rather than forking out for a real one to examine. Since intellectual property is not a thing in China, that original clone design then made its way to all the factories out there. Checking Aliexpress, different sellers do sometimes offer variations but that terrible bridge is pretty much standard as far as I can tell, so I guess that's produced by one manufacturer.

Something similar happened in Japan, where intellectual property and patents weren't really a thing until at least the late 1970s. If you read the autobiography of Roland founder Ikutaro Kakehashi, he talks about an ever expanding book of designs that did the rounds of Japan's early electronic music equipment manufacturers. That's probably why copying of US made guitars became such a big thing, as the concept of something being a "counterfeit" was not part of the culture.

[Skybone]

Loved my old Rockinbetter's, great necks. 

[Baloney Balderdash]

If I was to get a fake Rickenbacker, which I am not, cause i once actually was stupid enough to buy a vintage 70's one, the most expensive single piece of gear I ever bought, and I ended up absolutely hating it, especially how it felt in my hands, I would get the Harley Benton one, which, although not an exact copy, gets great reviews right as they are from stock.

Edited October 1, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[Bassassin]

15 hours ago, chriswareham said:

I suspect that whichever factory in China originally "cloned" the 4003 did so from pictures rather than forking out for a real one to examine. Since intellectual property is not a thing in China, that original clone design then made its way to all the factories out there. Checking Aliexpress, different sellers do sometimes offer variations but that terrible bridge is pretty much standard as far as I can tell, so I guess that's produced by one manufacturer.

 

The Chickenbacker bridge design seems to originate on Korean-made Shine copies from the early '00s:

 

 

The Shines were pretty decent basses by all accounts, & came fitted with Seymour Duncan Rick-type pickups as standard. Never been hands-on with one but I think they had conventional Fender-ish neck/scale proportions. Like a few other Fakers from that era (Indie & Wesley spring to mind!) it seems they though they could get around RIC's litigiousness with a wonky headstock shape - John Hall's C&D letters set them all straight about that, so you don't see too many of any of them!

[NikNik]

On 28/03/2023 at 21:11, PaulThePlug said:

Any excuse to post pics of my AliExpress Chickenbacker... Custom 4001/4004 Commission Landed @ £200ish iirc.

Biggest Issue.. Neck Angle. But due to the neck angle, height at the bridge is high... Archtop or Les Paul like at 18mm.

I like the look of the Rick-o-like bridge, i had the A and D saddles shimmed with a 1mm or so washer, to follow the fretboard. But the Rick-o-like Bridge overhanged the body due to 34" scale length, With a new bridge... Super Elevation at the saddles.

I might line up the Rick-o-Like bridge with the saddles turned round, see if it looks like it will intonate?

Never understood how they came to angle the neck and the headstock.

[JoeEvans]

So Rickenbackers are overpriced... Who knew, eh?

 

Edit - just re-read this and realised that it might come across wrong, I'm trying to be snarky about Rickenbackers not about this interesting post...

Edited October 4, 2023 by JoeEvans

[NikNik]

1 hour ago, JoeEvans said:

So Rickenbackers are overpriced... Who knew, eh?

Compared to what the Yanks can buy them for, most definitely.

[St. John from Des Moines]

SHORT VERSION: 33.25" v 34" scale length is a much smaller difference than I had thought. I had [mistakenly] believed that proper Rics were 30" scale, and I felt that the difference betweeen 30 and 34 would be too great to have any hope of achieving "the Ric sound". But now that I know that a proper Ric is actually much closer to 34" scale, I feel a bit more safe going for a 34" instrument. I'll at least make sure it's neck-thru, though!

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LONGER VERSION: I'm so glad that this thread existed that I even created an account on this forum just for it - despite living "across the pond"! 😄

So, I've been eyeing the [so-called] "Chickenbacker" for quite some time now! Between a) as outrageously expensive as a proper Rickenbacker is - especially over here in the states, and b) how, while I find the signature "clung" of "the Rickenbacker sound" to be very unique and a lot of fun, there's just no way this sound would ever become my "main thing" in bass tones, there's just no way I could ever justify buying a proper Ric (short of winning the lottery or getting a record contract, there's just no way!)

And yet, there's a part of me that REALLY loves this sound (to say nothing of the even more incredible looks), and certainly, if nothing else, it's a very unique, singular tone, as made famous by countless bassists, my personal favorites of them being Chris Squire, Mike Rutherford, [early] Roger Waters, and [early] Geddy Lee.

The biggest hesitation I had about the Chickenbacker was scale length and neck type. I figured I could upgrade the electronics later, but that I was stuck with the body stuff. Most I found were set-necks, rather than neck-thru, and all of them were 34" scale. Well, I had mistakenly believed that a Ric was 30", and felt the 4" difference "a bridge too far" to cross for the cheapie to have any real hope of matching the tones of the big boy. Also, I was distressed by how many were set-neck, rather than neck-thru. At least we do have some neck-thru variants of the cheapie available. But learning now (by way of this thread, actually) that the proper Rics are 33.25. I feel that  0.75" scale length difference might be marginal enough to be able to land at least close to the proper sound (with pickup mods, of course!)

So I'm thinking I'll go for one after all, and just replace the electronics with something much more faithful later down the road! Yay Chickenbacker!!!! 😄 

Cheers!

[Cosmo Valdemar]

5 hours ago, St. John from Des Moines said:

SHORT VERSION: 33.25" v 34" scale length is a much smaller difference than I had thought. I had [mistakenly] believed that proper Rics were 30" scale, and I felt that the difference betweeen 30 and 34 would be too great to have any hope of achieving "the Ric sound". But now that I know that a proper Ric is actually much closer to 34" scale, I feel a bit more safe going for a 34" instrument. I'll at least make sure it's neck-thru, though!

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LONGER VERSION: I'm so glad that this thread existed that I even created an account on this forum just for it - despite living "across the pond"! 😄

So, I've been eyeing the [so-called] "Chickenbacker" for quite some time now! Between a) as outrageously expensive as a proper Rickenbacker is - especially over here in the states, and b) how, while I find the signature "clung" of "the Rickenbacker sound" to be very unique and a lot of fun, there's just no way this sound would ever become my "main thing" in bass tones, there's just no way I could ever justify buying a proper Ric (short of winning the lottery or getting a record contract, there's just no way!)

And yet, there's a part of me that REALLY loves this sound (to say nothing of the even more incredible looks), and certainly, if nothing else, it's a very unique, singular tone, as made famous by countless bassists, my personal favorites of them being Chris Squire, Mike Rutherford, [early] Roger Waters, and [early] Geddy Lee.

The biggest hesitation I had about the Chickenbacker was scale length and neck type. I figured I could upgrade the electronics later, but that I was stuck with the body stuff. Most I found were set-necks, rather than neck-thru, and all of them were 34" scale. Well, I had mistakenly believed that a Ric was 30", and felt the 4" difference "a bridge too far" to cross for the cheapie to have any real hope of matching the tones of the big boy. Also, I was distressed by how many were set-neck, rather than neck-thru. At least we do have some neck-thru variants of the cheapie available. But learning now (by way of this thread, actually) that the proper Rics are 33.25. I feel that  0.75" scale length difference might be marginal enough to be able to land at least close to the proper sound (with pickup mods, of course!)

So I'm thinking I'll go for one after all, and just replace the electronics with something much more faithful later down the road! Yay Chickenbacker!!!! 😄 

Cheers!

My concern would be the pickup placement - on the OP's basses the pickup placement is very different on each, the copy has them set closer to the bridge.

[kodiakblair]

4 hours ago, Cosmo Valdemar said:

on the OP's basses the pickup placement is very different on each, the copy has them set closer to the bridge.

Far too  close.

 

Ric pickups are centred on imaginary 24th and 36th fret positions, that puts the bridge pickup just over 4" from the saddles. Ali-Ex bass looks to be around 2.5" from the saddles.

[St. John from Des Moines]

4 hours ago, Cosmo Valdemar said:

My concern would be the pickup placement - on the OP's basses the pickup placement is very different on each, the copy has them set closer to the bridge.

Yeah, I did notice that, and am a little embarrassed that I didn't bring it up in my original comment. One only needs to think of the 70's J-Bass vs those that came before and after to understand what a difference a seemingly subtle placement shift can make. I understand the science of placement in at least "101-level terms", so I really probably should take the matter more seriously.

 

Even so, it does seem from frequent testimony that once the stock pickups are replaced with more faithful counterparts, the "Chic" really does seem to do admirably well at landing close enough to the real thing to capture its essence, or at least a satisfying approximation thereof.

 

If only Ric would just get over themselves and make a "Squier" or "Epiphone"-equivalent, eh?

[St. John from Des Moines]

Oh, also, it looks like this "Chic" might have a more accurate bridge pickup placement!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/404495875570?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=404495875570&targetid=1530439033131&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9017986&poi=&campaignid=19851828444&mkgroupid=145880009014&rlsatarget=pla-1530439033131&abcId=9307249&merchantid=6296724&gclid=Cj0KCQiAjMKqBhCgARIsAPDgWlw4G18-NApA8ofaDYq-Tl7Po-pZlYDmMzqoxpJomSSD1fzwWksE1VoaAq15EALw_wcB

So, that means that they at least do exist. 🙂

[NikNik]

17 hours ago, St. John from Des Moines said:

Oh, also, it looks like this "Chic" might have a more accurate bridge pickup placement!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/404495875570?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=404495875570&targetid=1530439033131&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9017986&poi=&campaignid=19851828444&mkgroupid=145880009014&rlsatarget=pla-1530439033131&abcId=9307249&merchantid=6296724&gclid=Cj0KCQiAjMKqBhCgARIsAPDgWlw4G18-NApA8ofaDYq-Tl7Po-pZlYDmMzqoxpJomSSD1fzwWksE1VoaAq15EALw_wcB

So, that means that they at least do exist. 🙂

Some factories seem to have cottoned onto this, now. Plus, that one looks like it has standard-length heel, instead of those really long ones.

[NikNik]

17 hours ago, St. John from Des Moines said:

Yeah, I did notice that, and am a little embarrassed that I didn't bring it up in my original comment. One only needs to think of the 70's J-Bass vs those that came before and after to understand what a difference a seemingly subtle placement shift can make. I understand the science of placement in at least "101-level terms", so I really probably should take the matter more seriously.

 

Even so, it does seem from frequent testimony that once the stock pickups are replaced with more faithful counterparts, the "Chic" really does seem to do admirably well at landing close enough to the real thing to capture its essence, or at least a satisfying approximation thereof.

 

If only Ric would just get over themselves and make a "Squier" or "Epiphone"-equivalent, eh?

No chance. It's the demand that keeps them selling.

 

Why don't you look to Japan for copies like Greco? Some of these are as good, if not better, than the real thing.