Five-string SS bass thoughts

[tomaoz]

Hi

I've been playing the cello for many years and a couple of years ago started playing 4-string electric bass (Fender Jaguar Bass). My natural style is quite melodic (similar to cello counterpoint, I suppose), and I've found shortscale basses more suitable to my style. (This might be down to lack of technique, but hey!)

I settled on a Fender Mustang and find it super easier to navigate and be nimble around. But I find the fewer number of frets up high a bit of a limitation.

I've been wondering if a 5-string short scale bass might help open up new possibilities. I'd be looking for something that increases my range upwards, rather than in the lower register.

Does anyone have any recommendations around ways I could approach this? (Other than moving back to standard scale!)

Thanks!

[Beedster]

You could tune your bass in 4ths like a 'cello?, there's a few string tension guides online that would help you get it right, although I'm not sure whether it's going to be as easy with a SS as it would with a 34"

[Baloney Balderdash]

A 5 string short scale tuned E to C sounds like a great idea for your use.

 

It is not common to tune this way, usually it would be low B to high G, but a few professional bass players do actually do this.

 

Usually referred to as tenor bass tuning, 4 string tenor bass tuning would be A to C, which of course is also an option if you don't need the low E (Stanley Clarke utilized this a lot, and Victor Wooten use it sometimes too, both having a dedicated bass tuned this way that they bring to all their live show, but also use on recordings).

 

My main 4 string is tuned G to A#, 3 half steps above regular 4 string bass E standard tuning, or you could tune F# to A, as in 2 half steps above regular 4 string bass E standard tuning, the latter actually being a traditional tuning often used for upright bass solo pieces in classical music.

 

Another option is getting a 4 string short scale bass with better upper fret access, maybe even one with 24 frets, yes, the Fender Mustang is really bad in this regard, and the reason why I will never get one, and eventual tune it in 5th like a cello, again a few professional bass players do actually do this, to get more range out of it.

 

Just be sure to string it accordingly, with string gauges fitting the tuning for proper tension, this might help with that: 

https://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_guitar_tension_from_size.htm

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[Baloney Balderdash]

2 hours ago, Beedster said:

You could tune your bass in 4ths like a 'cello?, there's a few string tension guides online that would help you get it right, although I'm not sure whether it's going to be as easy with a SS as it would with a 34"

You mean 5th tuning, standard tuning is in 4th.

 

And it would definitely be easier to manage the extended reach this tuning would result in on a short scale bass.

 

 

Edit!!!:

 

Also regarding the need to buy single individual strings for this, which often only comes in regular long scale versions, as long as we are talking roundwound strings with a hex core, like for instance regular D'Addario XL strings, as long as you before cutting make an abrupt 90 degree bend on the string bellow the cutting point, I have never had any issues whatsoever, neither unwounnding, intonation, or otherwise, with cutting regular long scale strings to size to fit a short scale bass, and I've done this a lot, if you are really anxious eventual you could dip the bend end in a thin layer of super glue as well, just to be absolutely 100% sure, and let it cure for 24 hours (yes, most super glue will cure in a matter of seconds, but actually to bond fully and reach optimal binding strength most super glue needs a curing time of 24 hours).

 

Don't do this with any other string types though, especially not flats, as you otherwise are most likely to end up ruining the strings.

 

 

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[ezbass]

Any 5 string short scale tuned E-C would work, I would have thought. There is the dedicated E-C Fender Bass V, but that's vintage and expensive. Perhaps the Squier Bass VI could be an option, albeit with one more string.

[LeftyJ]

The Ibanez TMB35 could suit your needs, it's an affordable shortscale 5-string with classic styling, simple passive electronics (2x volume, 1x tone) and quality build for the price. 

[Beedster]

1 hour ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

You mean 5th tuning, standard tuning is in 4th.

 

And it would definitely be easier to manage the extended reach this tuning would result in on a short scale bass.

 

Sorry yes I meant 5ths of course, same as 'cello 🤔

[tomaoz]

Hey everyone, thanks so much for the speedy replies, some really useful food for thought there.

I've had a little experience tuning my bass in fifths many years ago. (I was once asked to stand in at very short notice for an AWOL bassist and found tuning it this way let me sight read straight off the bat! But I almost warped the neck in the process I think as I didn't have the correct string gauges on 😬)

I did toy with getting a mandocello some years ago but couldn't find one to try. But I do have a tenor mandolin (and my cello) so I play in fifths a good bit already - and I'm really enjoying playing in standard bass tuning at the moment. But maybe it's something I'll revisit.

And excuse my ignorance, but the mention of E-C tuning - that's just standard bass tuning with a C string above the top G? If so, that sounds ideal. (I was getting a bit confused as cello tuning (bottom up) is C-G-D-A - the same as this but upside down, minus the E string).

Can pretty much any 5 string bass be tuned this E-C, if the correct gauge strings are used? Or are some models specifically designed to accommodate a top C rather than a bottom B?

Thanks!

 

[Baloney Balderdash]

40 minutes ago, tomaoz said:

Hey everyone, thanks so much for the speedy replies, some really useful food for thought there.

I've had a little experience tuning my bass in fifths many years ago. (I was once asked to stand in at very short notice for an AWOL bassist and found tuning it this way let me sight read straight off the bat! But I almost warped the neck in the process I think as I didn't have the correct string gauges on 😬)

I did toy with getting a mandocello some years ago but couldn't find one to try. But I do have a tenor mandolin (and my cello) so I play in fifths a good bit already - and I'm really enjoying playing in standard bass tuning at the moment. But maybe it's something I'll revisit.

And excuse my ignorance, but the mention of E-C tuning - that's just standard bass tuning with a C string above the top G? If so, that sounds ideal. (I was getting a bit confused as cello tuning (bottom up) is C-G-D-A - the same as this but upside down, minus the E string).

Can pretty much any 5 string bass be tuned this E-C, if the correct gauge strings are used? Or are some models specifically designed to accommodate a top C rather than a bottom B?

Thanks!

 

Yes, the C is a 4th above the G (and G a 5th above the octave lower C for cello tuning), just like the rest of the strings in standard tuning.

 

And yes, any 5 string bass can be tuned E to C providing you use the correct string gauges, which the link I posted will help you chose (just plot in whichever gauges you use normally use for regular tuning and then whichever tuning you like, and try out plotting in different gauges till they approximately match the tension of those in the new tuning).

 

But usually a gauge .030 or .032 string will work well for the high C. 

 

I mean there are limitation to what tunings that will work, in terms of the appropriate gauge of strings in said tuning fitting the nut slots of the bass, if not a new nut would have to be cut and installed, but a regular nut on a regular 5 string bass, cut for strings suited a regular B to G tuning, will accommodate the slightly thinner gauge strings suited for an E to C tuning perfectly fine without any issues whatsoever with how nut slots are supposed to be cut.

 

Also, although I guess that would be a matter of personal taste, the high C might actually sound better on a short scale bass.

 

If you prefer playing short scale basses you should also know that there is nothing inherently inferior about them, as I sense from the OP that you might have had gotten the impression of, or that they are only for short people with small hands for that matter, if that had been true an absolute legend and master bass player, and might I add very tall man with huge hands, like Stanley Clarke (who by the way also is an extremely accomplished double bass player) wouldn't have chosen short scale electric basses as his main instrument of choice.

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[tomaoz]

Thanks @Baloney Balderdash- this all sounds great, cheers for the info on the string gauges. There's a chap who offers a good set-up service near me, so I'm sure between the two of us we can get things working. Looking forward to it.

I was aware of a bit of snobbery from some quarters around SS basses (not on here, just seen a few posts elsewhere!). I have pretty big hands too

I just find them closer to the cello's first position, so I'm more used to having my hands in those kind of poses. String bending's a bit easier too. Just generally a bit easier for me for fluid playing with lots of runs and arpeggios etc. My daughter who's 13 is playing on a full size bass, so that gets a few laughs though!

Thanks again for everyone's info. I'm new to the forum but appreciate everyone's help, looks like a great resource and community. I'll be hanging around more 🙂

[Mikey D]

Until recently all my 5 strings were high C, just what I prefer. I can vouch for the short scale Ibanez TMB35 that I've modded a bit and it's also E-C. I also have the EHB1005SMS short scale fanned fret thats worth looking at depending on budget, but a few floating around used at the moment. Both are Warwick Black label high C 5 string sets. 

 

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CEAh3S0HwdP/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=