Is a new mass-produced bass ever worth more than £1500

[Woodinblack]

7 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

The really wealthy collect vintage instruments. Few can play them decently or even competently/at all.

 

There was a guy that used to come to a few of our gigs, then afterwards would talk about all the old gibsons and fenders he had. He couldn't actualy play them at all, and seemed to have no desire to, he said he would occasionally let other people play them, but that was just his collection. It didn't really make much sense, but I guess that was his thing.

[chris_b]

Many years ago we did a gig for a corporate lawyer, his mansion in Stokenchurch actually had a ballroom! He showed us his collection, in the old stable block. It had been converted into a studio by a previous owner, Ian Anderson. He had about 50 guitars out on stands and twice that number in cases. He had several 1957 Strats and many other "collectable" guitars.

 

How the other half lives!

[tauzero]

1 hour ago, Woodinblack said:

 

There was a guy that used to come to a few of our gigs, then afterwards would talk about all the old gibsons and fenders he had. He couldn't actualy play them at all, and seemed to have no desire to, he said he would occasionally let other people play them, but that was just his collection. It didn't really make much sense, but I guess that was his thing.

 

In another world of four-stringed instruments, many Stradivarius violins are owned by collectors but they are frequently loaned to violinists. I was rather surprised that André Rieu has a loaner, I'm sure he could afford one of his own.

[lemmywinks]

9 minutes ago, tauzero said:

 

In another world of four-stringed instruments, many Stradivarius violins are owned by collectors but they are frequently loaned to violinists. I was rather surprised that André Rieu has a loaner, I'm sure he could afford one of his own.

 

Yeah but if he drops it and something starts rattling around inside he can just shove some foam in and hand it back, whistling as he walks off.

[Dan Dare]

2 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

There was a guy that used to come to a few of our gigs, then afterwards would talk about all the old gibsons and fenders he had. He couldn't actualy play them at all, and seemed to have no desire to, he said he would occasionally let other people play them, but that was just his collection. It didn't really make much sense, but I guess that was his thing.

 

I encountered someone similar. Hi schtick was to hang around with musicians and he used to let people play his toys as a way of buying their friendship. A little bit sad, really. He saw the instruments as investments, in much the same way as others view paintings and the like. Provided you know what you're buying, vintage instruments, art, etc are a sensible way to invest, especially with the volatility in the financial markets. 

[Dan Dare]

45 minutes ago, tauzero said:

In another world of four-stringed instruments, many Stradivarius violins are owned by collectors but they are frequently loaned to violinists. I was rather surprised that André Rieu has a loaner, I'm sure he could afford one of his own.

 

It's akin to sports companies sponsoring footballers, golfers, etc. The collector (they can be companies as well as individuals) loans the instrument to a prominent player in return for credits in concert programmes and so on - "with grateful thanks to Megacorp Insurance Inc".

[TimR]

1 hour ago, Dan Dare said:

 

It's akin to sports companies sponsoring footballers, golfers, etc. The collector (they can be companies as well as individuals) loans the instrument to a prominent player in return for credits in concert programmes and so on - "with grateful thanks to Megacorp Insurance Inc".

 

It also makes more sense to just hire an instrument for the big gigs and let other musicians hire it for their big gigs.

 

A lot of money tied up in an instrument you only play a few times a year and have to worry about storing it in a controlled secure environment and insure it.

[Nicko]

22 hours ago, chris_b said:

 

Heresy!!!!

 

 

20 hours ago, peteb said:

 

 

While it is correct that a P bass is essentially a tool, there is a certain type of functional beauty about them! 

 

You have misunderstood me.  I'm a P Bass fan, but they are not beautiful.  Yes, they have an elegant simplicity.  The shape is odd, flat topped and just a bit dull, the headstock is ugly and the position markers (either block or dot) aren't much to write home about.

 

I also play 6 string guitars.  I have a Telecaster which again is elegant in it's simplicity, a Patrick Eggle NY Stage (which is everything a guitar needs and nothing it doesn't) and an Epiphone 339 which is beautiful.

 

 

[peteb]

1 hour ago, Nicko said:

 

You have misunderstood me.  I'm a P Bass fan, but they are not beautiful.  Yes, they have an elegant simplicity.  The shape is odd, flat topped and just a bit dull, the headstock is ugly and the position markers (either block or dot) aren't much to write home about.

 

I also play 6 string guitars.  I have a Telecaster which again is elegant in it's simplicity, a Patrick Eggle NY Stage (which is everything a guitar needs and nothing it doesn't) and an Epiphone 339 which is beautiful.

 

 

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder! You can call it 'an elegant simplicity' if you like and I have no issue with that. The main point of my post was that many experienced, good players appreciate Fenders (especially older ones) and Fender type basses more than they do the more boutique brands. 

 

Edited May 17 by peteb

[LukeFRC]

17 minutes ago, peteb said:

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder! You can call it 'an elegant simplicity' if you like and I have no issue with that. The main point of my post was that many experienced, good players appreciate Fenders (especially older ones) and Fender type basses more than they do the more boutique brands. 

 

I mean this doesn't go into value at all... but I for years played lots of random modern basses... but for what I was doing, esp going straight to a PA, fender shaped objects just were easier to get working in the mix reliably every time. 
The price of things just working so you can focus on music 

[Boodang]

17 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

Real musicians tend to find and stick with a few instruments that we really like and change them relatively rarely. When we do, we often buy something old and used. Fender and Spector aren't going to stay in business because I have a couple of nice older basses from them, for example.

Your post scared me there for minute but I’ve been to the mirror, pinched myself and I’m definitely real. All this despite buying a new boutique bass every 6 months. 

[SteveXFR]

On 16/05/2024 at 17:41, neepheid said:

 

Ahh, but they have no word for "fluffy"

 

(Blackadder Goes Forth, "Private Plane" - incase anyone doesn't get the reference)

 

They actually have three words for fluffy depending on the context

[Boodang]

On 16/05/2024 at 15:54, TimR said:

Luthering by hand is probably a skilled and dying art, many people seem to buy a bass and send it straight for a setup. 

So, it could be a cnc machine that gets rid of the excess wood or the wood could be removed by hand tools but…

I had my local luthier make me a custom bass and he used only hand tools; it might all be in the mind but it felt all the more special for it. 

[Boodang]

On 16/05/2024 at 19:07, chris_b said:

Why does Warwick feel the need to go to the expense of sending over a technician to monitor the production process of their basses?

Because it makes you feel better about buying a Chinese made bass! 

[Nicko]

19 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

Real musicians tend to find and stick with a few instruments that we really like and change them relatively rarely.

Really?

[TimR]

1 hour ago, Boodang said:

So, it could be a cnc machine that gets rid of the excess wood or the wood could be removed by hand tools but…

I had my local luthier make me a custom bass and he used only hand tools; it might all be in the mind but it felt all the more special for it. 

 

Was it less than £1500?

[peteb]

41 minutes ago, Nicko said:

Really?

 

As ever, you are taking an argument to an absurd extreme to make some dubious point. I assume that @Dan Dare was talking about everyday working musicians rather than millionaire superstars like Slash, Steve Howe, Joe Bonamassa, etc.  

 

Edited May 17 by peteb

[Misdee]

What about the phenomena of the boutique P Bass? 

 

There was a time when you bought a boutique bass specifically because it wasn't a P Bass, i.e it gave you a sound that you couldn't get existing mass-produced instruments.  Now that exotic hifi-sounding basses are out of fashion ( have been for a long time now) the high-end bass market is flooded with new versions of the Fender Precision Bass, in one guise or another.

 

Bass makers are lying awake at night trying to think up new ways to sell bass players costly new versions of that venerable design. Lots of the folks buying boutique P Basses already have a P Bass, but they want a better rendition, presumably.

 

I find this interesting because I love a good P Bass myself. I have played and owned some very good boutique P Basses. But no matter how good they were/are in certain respects like overall construction and playability, I just can't get away from the fact that they all sounded like a Precision Bass. In sonic terms none of them offered any advantage over a good mass-produced version. Don't get my wrong, some of them were great basses but if they were/are qualatively better than a good Fender in terms of sound then it's lost on me.

Edited May 17 by Misdee

[peteb]

17 minutes ago, Misdee said:

What about the phenomena of the boutique P Bass? 

 

There was a time when you bought a boutique bass specifically because it wasn't a P Bass, i.e it gave you a sound that you couldn't get existing mass-produced instruments.  Now that exotic hifi-sounding basses are out of fashion ( have been for a long time now) the high-end bass market is flooded with new versions of the Fender Precision Bass, in one guise or another.

 

Bass makers are lying awake at night trying to think up new ways to sell bass players costly new versions of that venerable design. Lots of the folks buying boutique P Basses already have a P Bass, but they want a better rendition, presumably.

 

I find this interesting because I love a good P Bass myself. I have played and owned some very good boutique P Basses. No matter how good they were/are in certain respects like overall construction and playability, I just can't get away from the fact that they all sound like a Precision Bass. In sonic terms none of them offered any advantage over a good mass-produced version. Don't get my wrong, some of them were great basses but if they were/are qualatively better than a good Fender in terms of sound then it's lost on me.

 

I've been guilty of that. Despite being someone who prefers P basses, I have two Fender jazzes and a further two 'super jazz' basses, which are basically an active version of what you would like a Fender to be (one a four string, one a five string). 

 

Essentially, I reckon that people (including me) are looking for something with a slightly refined version of a Fender in terms of build, sound and aesthetics when they go down the 'super jazz' route. For some strange reason, I prefer the real thing when it comes to Precisions as opposed to Jazz basses! 

 

Edited May 17 by peteb

[Dan Dare]

23 minutes ago, peteb said:

As ever, you are taking an argument to an absurd extreme to make some dubious point. I assume that @Dan Dare was talking about everyday working musicians rather than millionaire superstars like Slash, Steve How, Joe Bonamassa, etc.

 

Much obliged, Pete. Spot on. I do concede that there are a few Nigel Tuffnells among the absurdly rich and famous.

[TimR]

I think a lot of the time, sound engineers are not interested in making the bass sound interesting and different or stand out in the mix.

 

Obviously there are obvious exceptions.

 

But it's easier for them to set the desk how they usually do and concentrate on vocals etc. Hence 'Just use the P bass mate.'

[Dan Dare]

10 hours ago, tauzero said:

 

In another world of four-stringed instruments, many Stradivarius violins are owned by collectors but they are frequently loaned to violinists. I was rather surprised that André Rieu has a loaner, I'm sure he could afford one of his own.

 

Debatable. Strads are pretty well all accounted for and range in value from £4m for a regular one to "name your price" for one of the more highly-regarded examples. Even a very prominent player would have difficulty in parking those sums at the kerb of a fiddle and insuring it would be a nightmare.

[peteb]

2 minutes ago, TimR said:

I think a lot of the time, sound engineers are not interested in making the bass sound interesting and different or stand out in the mix.

 

Obviously there are obvious exceptions.

 

But it's easier for them to set the desk how they usually do and concentrate on vocals etc. Hence 'Just use the P bass mate.'

 

It's not just sound engineers, it's band leaders as well. You can sense the palpable relief when you pull a Fender out of the gigbag when you first play with someone new, not to mention everyone seems fascinated with any 70s Fender that you take out on a gig! 

 

Let's face it, it is an industry reference sound that most people are comfortable with (be they sound engineers or BLs) and image wise, a 70s Fender is cool on the vast majority of gigs! 

 

[TimR]

9 minutes ago, peteb said:

 

It's not just sound engineers, it's band leaders as well. You can sense the palpable relief when you pull a Fender out of the gigbag when you first play with someone new, not to mention everyone seems fascinated with any 70s Fender that you take out on a gig! 

 

Let's face it, it is an industry reference sound that most people are comfortable with (be they sound engineers or BLs) and image wise, a 70s Fender is cool on the vast majority of gigs! 

 

 

I'm tempted to pop out and get one tomorrow. If only they weren't so heavy. 

 

And didn't sound like 70s Fenders. 🤣

[chris_b]

1 hour ago, Misdee said:

What about the phenomena of the boutique P Bass?

 

I play a Mike Lull PJ5. It's a boutique bass in every sense.

 

If I could find a P bass at half the price that played and sounded as good as my Lull I'd buy it in a heartbeat. 

 

Until then the Lull will have to do.