Is a new mass-produced bass ever worth more than £1500

[tegs07]

7 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said:

It's the economists' purview to figure out the complex behaviour that is the cause. They can't. So Central Banks pull levers to do their best and eventually it settles down as the economists 'predicted' so they all keep their jobs.

The problem economists have is that human behaviour is hardly rational or predictable so making a science of it is bound to fail. I’m not a great fan of central banks. I think they have meddled and messed up in a very big way and we are all now paying the price for their mistakes and shortcomings. Anyway back to price rises of basses or cars or whatever. Everyone finds the economy and geopolitics dull even though they are the invisible hand behind most of these issues.

Edited March 31, 2023 by tegs07

[Passinwind]

11 hours ago, Oomo said:

I've wondered that about Dingwalls, I've never tried one but heard nothing but praise for them.

 

From what I understand, they're made in China, then shipped back over to Canada for quality control / setup, then on to wherever.

 

Not sure if that counts as mass produced, but they seem to sell for around £2400 which seems huge for a non custom instrument.

Some are made in China, but the higher end ones are made in Canada and sometimes go for Alembic/Wal sort of money, with delivery waits to match.

Edited March 31, 2023 by Passinwind

[tegs07]

11 hours ago, Reggaebass said:

Have you had many American made fenders, I’ve had and have got many and imo their quality is very good, £1000 wouldn’t come close to the 62RI jazz I had , I shouldn’t have sold it but I used it to fund a custom built Sandberg which I didn’t gel with 

I have a Sandberg and it’s by far the best build quality on a bass I have ever had. The finish is amazing…. but I just don’t love it. Possibly because I don’t seem to gel with active basses. For whatever inexplicable reason I have a Fender Nate P and it just works for me. Expensive, mass produced worth the cash? For me yep. For hours of enjoyment provided it is unbelievably cheap.

[Reggaebass]

2 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

I have a Sandberg and it’s by far the best build quality on a bass I have ever had. The finish is amazing…. but I just don’t love it. Possibly because I don’t seem to gel with active basses. For whatever inexplicable reason I have a Fender Nate P and it just works for me. Expensive, mass produced worth the cash? For me yep. For hours of enjoyment provided it is unbelievably cheap.

Same tegs, I couldn’t fault it one little bit, amazing quality but after a few weeks every time I went to my rack I’d pick up a jazz or a P, I just feel comfortable with my fenders so for me they are worth the money 

[Ralf1e]

13 hours ago, SteveXFR said:

It seems to me this entire discussion comes down to "I remember when a P bass cost five shillings and sixpence"

When I were a lad in my teens you could find a Porsche in the Exchange and Mart for between £100 and £150. Same car today has added noughts

[SteveXFR]

1 hour ago, Ralf1e said:

When I were a lad in my teens you could find a Porsche in the Exchange and Mart for between £100 and £150. Same car today has added noughts

 

924? They were worth nothing for years, now you can add two zeros for a nice one. I still think they're a bit crap though

[Ralf1e]

8 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

 

924? They were worth nothing for years, now you can add two zeros for a nice one. I still think they're a bit crap though

No not 924 stuff like 911's, Carrera style

[Jackroadkill]

It depends on how much you like the bass, I suppose.  I'm happy with mine, and both were a lot less than that.  I'm not saying I wouldn't buy one for that money, just that I'm happy with what I have now.

Edited April 1, 2023 by Jackroadkill

[SteveXFR]

17 minutes ago, Ralf1e said:

No not 924 stuff like 911's, Carrera style

I don't think there's ever been a time when you could get a complete 911 for £150. They were really cheap for a while but never that cheap. 

[chris_b]

16 hours ago, SteveXFR said:

It seems to me this entire discussion comes down to "I remember when a P bass cost five shillings and sixpence"

 

I remember when a Precision bass was 122 gns. That's what I paid in 1969. The only problem. . . . in 2023 money that is £1976.83 and a Jazz bass was about £2336.70. That was for bog-standard burst. Custom colours were extra.

 

Basses are not more expensive than they were. The difference is these days you can buy a great bass for a few hundred pounds and you couldn't do that 60 years ago.

[linear]

I don't think the fact that I couldn't afford to buy a bass in the 1960s is quite the comfort some people on here seem to think it is.

[chris_b]

7 minutes ago, linear said:

I don't think the fact that I couldn't afford to buy a bass in the 1960s is quite the comfort some people on here seem to think it is.

 

No comfort intended, just relating the relative situation. 60 years ago you had to pay big prices. These days you don't. The many great alternatives around these days is the difference.

[Nebadon2000]

On 31/03/2023 at 08:40, Boodang said:

By comparison to this a Fender build is just clumsy.

Nothing Clumsy about this Fender[picture from listing where I bought it]

Neck Pocket, String alignment, Frets and edges, neck and body finish, hardware, weight and balance and Sound all first rate

 

[Misdee]

Is a new mass-produced bass ever worth more than £1500? Yes, of course a new mass-produced bass can be worth more than £1500. I would go so far as to say that even ten years ago some factory-made basses were worth that price tag. It just depends on what bass you mean.

 

How can I be so sure? Well let me put it to you another way. If the  binary opposition is "Are handmade boutique basses worth over £1500?" based on personal experience my answer would  equally be that some are, some aren't. You pay your money and take your choice. I've had Fenders and I've had boutique Fender-style basses. Both were great basses that I enjoyed, but in use the differences between them were negligible. Whatever I paid for on the custom-made basses, it wasn't really important when I was actually playing them and making music. 

 

Whether a bass is made in a factory or a workshop is not a reliable indicator of quality or indeed value for money. The very best handmade instruments offer a level of quality and attention to detail that most factory-made basses cannot. However, most handmade basses are handmade primarily because whoever makes them cannot realistically find a way to produce them on a grander scale, not because the builder is fanatical about quality or because objectively that is the only way to produce a satisfying instrument. Boutique basses have their own pitfalls and provide no real guarantee of ultimate quality. You can handmake disappointing basses in small numbers, just so long as someone buys them for whatever reason.

 

A lot of handmade basses are great in certain respects but let themselves down in others. As someone once said, no one ever came up with a brilliant idea in a committee, but a lot of bad ideas were.killed off there. A lot of smaller bass builders would benefit from their instruments going through the committee process. Often custom builders are preoccupied with offering solutions to problems that in reality bass players don't really have.

 

 If mass produced basses are overpriced and boutique custom basses are overrated then where do we go from there?

 

Three grand is indeed a bit steep for a new Stingray, but EBMM aren't responsible for the pitiful exchange rate. Also bear in mind rising production costs in manufacturing  and inflation on both sides of the Atlantic. It's primarily those factors which are driving up prices.

 

That said, EBMM turn out basses that in many respects are just as good as handmade boutique basses, and in some respects better. In my opinion, all they need is a quarter sawn and/or graphite reinforced neck and their instruments would be as good as anything handmade. They sound great, play great, the pickups and electronics are top notch, beautifully finished ect, and are fairly consistent in their quality control.  Their design concepts are top notch too. If a boutique builder had come up with the Stingray Special or the Bongo would we still balk at the prospect of paying three grand for one? Similarly, the Japanese-made Yamaha basses are just as good as any comparable boutique basses you care to name in terms of sound, build quality and overall design.

The reality is that prices are going up, and I don't really foresee them coming down. In a world where a tin of Heinze tomato soup costs £1.70 (!), a Music Man bass is going to cost three grand or more.  Anyhow, soon playing the bass will  increasingly be the prerogative of the wealthy and privileged. Don't be surprised if in a couple of years one of Jacob Rees Mogg's many kids appears on TV aristocratically knocking out Louis Johnson-inspired slap licks on a BFR Stingray as a way of grinding his heel in the face of the undeserving poor while his dad looks on approvingly.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by Misdee

[Ed_S]

I recently went through an equipment cull which yielded a chunk of capital to re-invest in the hobby. Part of it went on a new Stingray 5 Special, and yeah it was expensive, but it was exactly what I wanted, I had the funds, I couldn't get it any cheaper, and it's a great bass that I'm really pleased with. I think it was worth paying what it cost me to own this specific mass-produced bass.

[Ralf1e]

20 hours ago, SteveXFR said:

I don't think there's ever been a time when you could get a complete 911 for £150. They were really cheap for a while but never that cheap. 

Did I use the word complete. It would have needed some welding as all rot boxes built in those days did but it was there.

I don't suppose you think you could have picked up a Tiger 110 or BSA Goldstar or a 650 Roadrocket for about £100 either?

But you could 🤣

[gjones]

I've only ever bought a brand new bass once in my life, which was a Fender Elite Precision. It cost me just under two grand. 

 

It's a nice bass and is put together well but the stereo jack input (which is a cheap looking plastic thing) only lasted a couple of years before it developed a fault and had to be replaced.

 

Saying that, I'm happy to subsidise a company like Fender and it's American factory and workers, if it prevents the company from having to offshore their production to find cheap labour abroad. 

[Boodang]

On 01/04/2023 at 19:04, Nebadon2000 said:

Nothing Clumsy about this Fender[picture from listing where I bought it]

Neck Pocket, String alignment, Frets and edges, neck and body finish, hardware, weight and balance and Sound all first rate

 

Now, I know this is a personal opinion and if you're perfectly happy with the Fender then that's great and all that counts, but for me I find the whole thing quite clumsy..... the neck joint is not contoured and chunky, I find the body bulky and it could definitely do with some contouring, then they cnc everything from the front and cover it up with cheap plastic! To me the whole thing smacks of 'how to make a bass as cheap as possible '. Can you imagine how much they'd charge if it was a set neck!

[SteveXFR]

2 minutes ago, Boodang said:

Now, I know this is a personal opinion and if you're perfectly happy with the Fender then that's great and all that counts, but for me I find the whole thing quite clumsy..... the neck joint is not contoured and chunky, I find the body bulky and it could definitely do with some contouring, then they cnc everything from the front and cover it up with cheap plastic! To me the whole thing smacks of 'how to make a bass as cheap as possible '. Can you imagine how much they'd charge if it was a set neck!

 

Those things seem more like design preference issues than quality issues. What's wrong with a slightly ropey finish in an area you can't see? 

Fender are a business and as such their reason for existing is to make as much money as possible. For that reason it's to be expected that they would do the minimum and charge the maximum. If people keep buying them, that suggests they got the product and pricing right. 

[Waddo Soqable]

A Fender Precision Bass is, and was always a fairly basic workmanlike machine made in a simple fashion, bless it. It never pretended to be a posh hand made "artisan" piece. 

 

[Boodang]

12 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

 

Those things seem more like design preference issues than quality issues. What's wrong with a slightly ropey finish in an area you can't see? 

Fender are a business and as such their reason for existing is to make as much money as possible. For that reason it's to be expected that they would do the minimum and charge the maximum. If people keep buying them, that suggests they got the product and pricing right. 

I agree... mostly! I think Fender have probably got their pricing spot on. My preferences for design might not be a quality issue but they would certainly be more expensive to incorporate. It's interesting that the scale of economics now mean that Fender, making a bass as cheap as they possibly can, charge more than a custom luthier who can incorporate those design preferences.

[Waddo Soqable]

Perhaps basic & cheaply made is the new "boutique" 

[tegs07]

18 minutes ago, Boodang said:

I agree... mostly! I think Fender have probably got their pricing spot on. My preferences for design might not be a quality issue but they would certainly be more expensive to incorporate. It's interesting that the scale of economics now mean that Fender, making a bass as cheap as they possibly can, charge more than a custom luthier who can incorporate those design preferences.

It’s worth noting that a custom luthier doesn’t have to pay the wages of around 3000 employees. As with most things retail it’s a race to the bottom dollar. Consumers have massive choice and want the best price they can get. It’s a tough and competitive business. Personally I like a no frills instrument and the no nonsense P works well for me. It doesn’t need to be a Fender but the one I have is a keeper.

Edited April 2, 2023 by tegs07

[Boodang]

3 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

It’s worth noting that a custom luthier doesn’t have to pay the wages of around 3000 employees.

Totally agree! In the past a custom was way more expensive than a Fender but now it seems the economics of a mass produced guitar aren't much different in final cost. It helps of course that my local luthier is just feeding himself and not even a few employees. Plus getting a custom done can be a lottery, there's no guarantee of what your going to end up with... but still, at those prices I'd go custom everytime and take the chance. In fact custom number 3 is in the pipeline and will come in way less than an American fender, here's fingers crossed it turns out well!

[tegs07]

1 minute ago, Boodang said:

Totally agree! In the past a custom was way more expensive than a Fender but now it seems the economics of a mass produced guitar aren't much different in final cost. It helps of course that my local luthier is just feeding himself and not even a few employees. Plus getting a custom done can be a lottery, there's no guarantee of what your going to end up with... but still, at those prices I'd go custom everytime and take the chance. In fact custom number 3 is in the pipeline and will come in way less than an American fender, here's fingers crossed it turns out well!

I had a custom bass made. It was nice to support a local luthier and see the work in progress. For some inexplicable reason though I keep getting active basses and never gel with them. The one I had made was active. I don’t know why I keep repeating this? Maybe eventually I will find one I like or get broke trying?