What to upgrade to after a combo?

[Elfrasho]

5 hours ago, Minininjarob said:

A good friend of mine lent me his TE combo and I think he wanted to sell it (he might have given it to me tbh as he is really generous) but the weight of it was unbelievable. I need to be able to move it round often up and down stairs - I’m strong having worked in manual jobs and sports and I nearly caused myself permanent damage moving it!

It also came with an extension cab…… 

if it wasn’t  for the weight and lack of a headphone socket I would have it in my house now. 

 

 

Aye, I rarely have the need for an amp - 99% of my gigs are IEM's - I'm a big lad so I don't mind moving my TE about every so often, but weight is a definite consideration if it's something you will be carting about every week!

 

I think we'd really need to know you budget to give you better advice. The extension amp for your gk is £350-£400, so if that's out of your budget, I think you'll struggle to find a good quality, lightweight but loud set up for less than that, that's much better than your existing GK.

 

 

[Ed_S]

If you're on the rock/metal originals path, then take full advantage of the fact that your rehearsing and gigging world is littered with old, heavy, tatty-looking house cabs that are otherwise perfectly serviceable and make plenty of noise for the rooms you'll find them in. Venues will often tell you not to bring cabs anyway - just heads and breakables - as there's nowhere to put them and no time to go swapping them over. Start out by just getting a good quality 5-800W lightweight amp head, a bag or case to keep it safe in and a couple of sturdy speaker cables. At the point where you actually need a cab, go for lightweight and well engineered, sell the combo to part-fund it and get either a vertical 2x10 or 2x12 depending on whether you need to be loud or very loud.

[BigRedX]

I've always found the notion that it's OK to use your amp with whatever tat the venue have knocking about masquerading as a cab, very un-nerving. About 10 years ago my band played a festival where we were specifically told that we needed to bring amps but would have to use the venue supplied cabs - supposedly in order to minimise change over times. For me that meant specifically making up some Speakon to jack leads just in case the cabs supplied were jack only (I've never used jack leads for bass cabs) and it's just as well that I did because the cabs turned to need them. The cabs were terrible with very poor sensitivity compared to mine and were either inaudible or noticeably distorting, even though we weren't a band that played loud on stage. In the end I turned up as far as I dared and played "blind" hoping that it sounded OK FoH, and that the cabs and my amp would still be functioning afterwards. The experience left me vowing to never do that again, and in the future I would either use my full rig or expect an amp to also be supplied.

[BigRedX]

On 02/04/2023 at 10:49, ukbassboy said:

Trust me, lifting heavy gear doesn't get any better with time - the lightest gear is generally more expensive, but imho worth it. I've got a Mark Bass Nano 2 which kicks out 300w at 1.4kg and, as the name suggests, is tiny. That is great for small pubs and practices so when something bigger is required I have a Genz Benz Shuttlemax 12.0 which gives me 1200w (provided I have two cabinets) and weighs 3kgs. It really is incredible what they can do size vs weight vs power wise these days!

I see the recommendation above about about an FRFR - I have a Line 6 Helix Stomp so looked at that route, but ultimately decided there weren't enough advantages over just getting a small used bass head and bass cabinet. It might have been tempted if the Barefaced FR800 still existed though!  

 

I suppose it depends on the sorts of gigs you do and whether your rig is expected to provide the bass guitar FoH as well as on stage. Since I ditched my conventional rig for a Helix and FRFR I've only had to do 2 gigs where the bass wasn't also in the PA. Although it coped perfectly well at these and improved dispersion of the FRFR meant that I wasn't as loud on stage I had been with my previous rig under similar circumstance.

[Greg Edwards69]

33 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

I suppose it depends on the sorts of gigs you do and whether your rig is expected to provide the bass guitar FoH as well as on stage. Since I ditched my conventional rig for a Helix and FRFR I've only had to do 2 gigs where the bass wasn't also in the PA. Although it coped perfectly well at these and improved dispersion of the FRFR meant that I wasn't as loud on stage I had been with my previous rig under similar circumstance.

Going direct from the Helix and having my own FRFR has made us much more consistent.  My headrush speaker is about as powerful as my old markbass rig, so it can handle vocal only in the PA situations just fine. And with the global EQ I think it sounds better and more controlled too. I no longer fear dodgy acoustics, one-loud-note syndrome, or filling stage with low end rumble.

 

PS, I wish the Barefaced FR800 still existed too. I'd have one in a heartbeat.

Edited April 3, 2023 by Greg Edwards69

[Greg Edwards69]

33 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

I've always found the notion that it's OK to use your amp with whatever tat the venue have knocking about masquerading as a cab, very un-nerving. About 10 years ago my band played a festival where we were specifically told that we needed to bring amps but would have to use the venue supplied cabs - supposedly in order to minimise change over times. For me that meant specifically making up some Speakon to jack leads just in case the cabs supplied were jack only (I've never used jack leads for bass cabs) and it's just as well that I did because the cabs turned to need them. The cabs were terrible with very poor sensitivity compared to mine and were either inaudible or noticeably distorting, even though we weren't a band that played loud on stage. In the end I turned up as far as I dared and played "blind" hoping that it sounded OK FoH, and that the cabs and my amp would still be functioning afterwards. The experience left me vowing to never do that again, and in the future I would either use my full rig or expect an amp to also be supplied.

Same here. I've had mixed experiences with using supplied backline. From crappy combos meant to fill the room, to cabs with no top end whatsover to amazing backline on stage only to find they want to take a DI directly off my pedalboard before it even reached the amp. As I mention above, all of us using a helix with FRFR has made us much more consistent, whether we're in the PA or not, or using the FRFRs or not (we've yet to come across a gig where we have to use the supplied backline and not be in the PA) Indeed, we had an outdoor small festival gig last summer. Whilst they had average supplied backline on offer, we simply asked for a monitor each instead. The sound was great and the setup, soundcheck and pack down afterwards was super quick. Even the sound guys commented on how easy it was to manage.

[Ed_S]

21 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

I've always found the notion that it's OK to use your amp with whatever tat the venue have knocking about masquerading as a cab, very un-nerving. About 10 years ago my band played a festival where we were specifically told that we needed to bring amps but would have to use the venue supplied cabs - supposedly in order to minimise change over times. For me that meant specifically making up some Speakon to jack leads just in case the cabs supplied were jack only (I've never used jack leads for bass cabs) and it's just as well that I did because the cabs turned to need them. The cabs were terrible with very poor sensitivity compared to mine and were either inaudible or noticeably distorting, even though we weren't a band that played loud on stage. In the end I turned up as far as I dared and played "blind" hoping that it sounded OK FoH, and that the cabs and my amp would still be functioning afterwards. The experience left me vowing to never do that again, and in the future I would either use my full rig or expect an amp to also be supplied.

 

It's not always ideal, but you can't deny that 'heads and breakables' is the reality of playing certain types of gigs when you're a certain type of band. In those circumstances, if you're the one that tips up with your full rig when you've been explicitly told that there's no time or room for it, or conversely doesn't tip up with an amp head because you're not risking it, it's also a good way to get dropped from future gigs with that promoter or venue because there are always other bands that will make their lives easier. We've played some of our best local support slots for touring bands not because we were always the best fit for the gig musically, but because we have a reputation with the stage manager of the local rock club for turning up when we're told, bringing and leaving what we're instructed, setting up and checking un-fussily, playing for as long as we're given, and clearing the stage quickly afterwards.

 

In terms of where to go after your first combo, getting a loud little amp head and some cables in a bag can't be the worst advice going if it lets you access a really commonly found format for getting out there and playing some music with/to some people.

[gjones]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

I've always found the notion that it's OK to use your amp with whatever tat the venue have knocking about masquerading as a cab, very un-nerving. About 10 years ago my band played a festival where we were specifically told that we needed to bring amps but would have to use the venue supplied cabs - supposedly in order to minimise change over times. For me that meant specifically making up some Speakon to jack leads just in case the cabs supplied were jack only (I've never used jack leads for bass cabs) and it's just as well that I did because the cabs turned to need them. The cabs were terrible with very poor sensitivity compared to mine and were either inaudible or noticeably distorting, even though we weren't a band that played loud on stage. In the end I turned up as far as I dared and played "blind" hoping that it sounded OK FoH, and that the cabs and my amp would still be functioning afterwards. The experience left me vowing to never do that again, and in the future I would either use my full rig or expect an amp to also be supplied.

I played a festival a few years ago where the backline was an Ampeg SVT through an Ampeg 4x10, which would normally be a decent rig. But it had been limited in volume somehow and I couldn't get any decent level out of it. I had to stand right next to it in order to hear myself at all.

 

I played the same festival a year later and they had a ratty old Ashdown Mag head with an Ashdown Mag 4x10, when I saw it my head drooped but, surprisingly, compared to that Ampeg the previous year, it actually sounded great. 

[Pea Turgh]

25 minutes ago, Ed_S said:

 

It's not always ideal, but you can't deny that 'heads and breakables' is the reality of playing certain types of gigs when you're a certain type of band. In those circumstances, if you're the one that tips up with your full rig when you've been explicitly told that there's no time or room for it, or conversely doesn't tip up with an amp head because you're not risking it, it's also a good way to get dropped from future gigs with that promoter or venue because there are always other bands that will make their lives easier. We've played some of our best local support slots for touring bands not because we were always the best fit for the gig musically, but because we have a reputation with the stage manager of the local rock club for turning up when we're told, bringing and leaving what we're instructed, setting up and checking un-fussily, playing for as long as we're given, and clearing the stage quickly afterwards.

 

In terms of where to go after your first combo, getting a loud little amp head and some cables in a bag can't be the worst advice going if it lets you access a really commonly found format for getting out there and playing some music with/to some people.

I like this post.  Know your people.  It’s all about the people.

[Pea Turgh]

Also, I got by for a number of years with a 100w 12” combo.  Sometimes I struggled, but who cares.

Maybe try it out full tilt with your band and see if you need to upgrade at all?

[BigRedX]

36 minutes ago, Ed_S said:

 

It's not always ideal, but you can't deny that 'heads and breakables' is the reality of playing certain types of gigs when you're a certain type of band. In those circumstances, if you're the one that tips up with your full rig when you've been explicitly told that there's no time or room for it, or conversely doesn't tip up with an amp head because you're not risking it, it's also a good way to get dropped from future gigs with that promoter or venue because there are always other bands that will make their lives easier. We've played some of our best local support slots for touring bands not because we were always the best fit for the gig musically, but because we have a reputation with the stage manager of the local rock club for turning up when we're told, bringing and leaving what we're instructed, setting up and checking un-fussily, playing for as long as we're given, and clearing the stage quickly afterwards.

 

In terms of where to go after your first combo, getting a loud little amp head and some cables in a bag can't be the worst advice going if it lets you access a really commonly found format for getting out there and playing some music with/to some people.

 

It's not always that simple. At the gig in question there was plenty of room on stage, and I spent so long trying to get something I could hear that wasn't going cook the voice coils of the supplied cabs that I might as well have brought and set up my own full rig.

 

These days with the Helix and FRFR I don't have to worry. For those gigs where the foldback of the house PA isn't sufficient, I can fit the FRFR into places where a conventional bass rig wouldn't go. On stages where space is really tight it goes under the stand that holds the computer that supplies backing track (synth and sound effects for one band; drum machine and second synth for the other). Since we have to find room on stage for this anyway it means my "bass amp" doesn't take up any more space.

[Pea Turgh]

Here’s an opportunity!  No connection to the seller (I just spend too much time on Basschat)

 

pull out the amp and you have a cheap matching extension cab!

[Ed_S]

3 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

 

It's not always that simple. At the gig in question there was plenty of room on stage, and I spent so long trying to get something I could hear that wasn't going cook the voice coils of the supplied cabs that I might as well have brought and set up my own full rig.

 

These days with the Helix and FRFR I don't have to worry. For those gigs where the foldback of the house PA isn't sufficient, I can fit the FRFR into places where a conventional bass rig wouldn't go. On stages where space is really tight it goes under the stand that holds the computer that supplies backing track (synth and sound effects for one band; drum machine and second synth for the other). Since we have to find room on stage for this anyway it means my "bass amp" doesn't take up any more space.

 

Nah, I get that - it sounds like you've got your setup sorted out just right for what you do, and that festival gig was a pain for completely avoidable reasons which is a guaranteed irritation. I've been in similar situations myself a couple of times so I know it's not always as-advertised, though I've always been able to sort something out and not killed an amp on a loaner cab yet.

 

I reckon we've both given decent advice and justifications - it'll just depend on aims and resources which is most appropriate to anyone reading.

[Downunderwonder]

10 hours ago, Pea Turgh said:

Here’s an opportunity!  No connection to the seller (I just spend too much time on Basschat)

 

pull out the amp and you have a cheap matching extension cab!

Winner of today's chicken dinner!!!!!@

[Elfrasho]

On 03/04/2023 at 15:10, Pea Turgh said:

Here’s an opportunity!  No connection to the seller (I just spend too much time on Basschat)

 

 

Won't the internals speakers be 4ohm? If not, this would be a great shout.

[Pea Turgh]

29 minutes ago, Elfrasho said:

Won't the internals speakers be 4ohm? If not, this would be a great shout.

Damn - didn’t think of that!  The service manual appears to confirm 4 ohms 🤦🏻

[Elfrasho]

18 hours ago, Pea Turgh said:

Damn - didn’t think of that!  The service manual appears to confirm 4 ohms 🤦🏻

To be fair , getting a couple of equivalent 8ohm speakers for that set up might be still reasonably economical. 

[Minininjarob]

On 03/04/2023 at 15:10, Pea Turgh said:

Here’s an opportunity!  No connection to the seller (I just spend too much time on Basschat)

 

pull out the amp and you have a cheap matching extension cab!

The GK extension cabs for my amp are powered so I don’t think this will work. 

[Elfrasho]

1 hour ago, Minininjarob said:

The GK extension cabs for my amp are powered so I don’t think this will work. 

It would but it would involve a bit of diying. 

[Chienmortbb]

On 01/04/2023 at 03:08, Downunderwonder said:

If your combo is an mb200 in a box with a speaker then it should take an extension cab. That would be a good thing to try before ditching it.

 

Crazy how loud an MB200 goes through a big cab at 4ohms.

The GK combos usuallu use 4 OHM dtivers fro memory

[Downunderwonder]

5 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

The GK combos usuallu use 4 OHM dtivers fro memory

Yeah, I gathered that from up the thread. Still, pretty trivial to hook up a series connection for them to run at 8 ohms if he wanted to snaffle the blown amp one in the classifieds.