Nitro OVER Poly (NOT Nitro VERSUS Poly)

[Stub Mandrel]

I'm getting really cross with facebook at the moment as I asked if anyone has experience of Fender's new 'Nitro over poly' finish and, because no-one on Farcebook reads posts properly, everyone is telling me how nitro wears differently to poly.

 

Argh!

 

I know the difference and have basses in both finishes.

 

Fender have started shipping basses with a (in full) NITROCELLULOSE FINISH APPLIED OVER A POLYURETHANE BASE.

 

There is no explanation of whet is nitro (just a topcoat for the less severe gloss, or the full colour finish over a poly primer, or something in between?)

 

My concern is that any damage or wear (or something like artificially checking the finish) could result in the nitro peeling, the poly cracking off or just strange effects if the mild nitro 'wears' down to bright gloss poly.

 

Has anyone got a bass with this sort of finish and had any experience of how it responds to real use?

 

[AndyTravis]

A bit of a google around suggests a lot of the vintage reissues have been done like this.

 

Hard to get through all the debate and jibber jabber on the topic.

 

A lot of mention that the clear coat is the Nitro?

 

 

[Waddo Soqable]

I'd imagine it's just a way to boast of a "nitro" finish... whilst still using what they're already geared up for.. cheap and easy, tried and tested poly to do the main coating, and then a light cosmetic topping of nitro so they can say so. That's my cynical view... 

[Stub Mandrel]

I suspect that's it. And nozone knows what happens when the nitro wears off.

[BigRedX]

The nitro finish will wear off - that's what it does. Hopefully as it wears away the poly coat below will polish up at the same time so it won't be massively noticeable.

 

AFAICS overall it's just a marketing ploy. Although it's never stopped Fender in the past. Even in the days when both the colour and clear coats were all nitro, the grain fillers and primer were poly-based. 

[Stub Mandrel]

Sounds like the worst of all possible worlds...

[Waddo Soqable]

I've often seen it punted (inc by "pro"guitar workshops) that if you're re-finishing you can spray nitro over poly if you scuff it to key the surface, I suspect largely coz getting poly off is so difficult.

.. it supposedly sticks ok but tbh I never fancied the idea, and if I was dead set on nitro on a neck or something I'd want it straight on the wood

Edited April 4, 2023 by Waddo Soqable

[miles'tone]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

The nitro finish will wear off - that's what it does. Hopefully as it wears away the poly coat below will polish up at the same time so it won't be massively noticeable.

 

AFAICS overall it's just a marketing ploy. Although it's never stopped Fender in the past. Even in the days when both the colour and clear coats were all nitro, the grain fillers and primer were poly-based. 

Yup. Fullerplast...

 

[AndyTravis]

1 minute ago, miles'tone said:

Yup. Fullerplast...

 

That’s the thing I couldn’t remember the name of last night.

 

Been away from the guitar shops too long 🤭

[Stub Mandrel]

I think the modern ones are poly colour coat with clear nitro on top.

[Waddo Soqable]

1 minute ago, Stub Mandrel said:

I think the modern ones are poly colour coat with clear nitro on top.

Hmm.🤔 so pretty much total bullshlt then 

[NAS Bass]

On 04/04/2023 at 09:03, BigRedX said:

AFAICS overall it's just a marketing ploy. Although it's never stopped Fender in the past. Even in the days when both the colour and clear coats were all nitro, the grain fillers and primer were poly-based. 

True, although at that time I don't believe it was a marketing ploy, just what they did at at the time. Getting excited about nitro wasn't a thing then - I don't think most of us knew or cared!

[BigRedX]

For me nitro is a put off. I don't want the finish on my instruments to wear away.

[LukeFRC]

there was a build thread on here where someone got a nitro finished roadwork jazz or something, and wanted to refinish it. 
They used acetone or something to wipe the top coat off to leave a nice smooth poly bottom coat to refinish over really simply. 
 

 

[Chiliwailer]

On 03/04/2023 at 22:19, Stub Mandrel said:

I'm getting really cross with facebook at the moment as I asked if anyone has experience of Fender's new 'Nitro over poly' finish and, because no-one on Farcebook reads posts properly, everyone is telling me how nitro wears differently to poly.

 

Argh!

 

I know the difference and have basses in both finishes.

 

Fender have started shipping basses with a (in full) NITROCELLULOSE FINISH APPLIED OVER A POLYURETHANE BASE.

 

There is no explanation of whet is nitro (just a topcoat for the less severe gloss, or the full colour finish over a poly primer, or something in between?)

 

My concern is that any damage or wear (or something like artificially checking the finish) could result in the nitro peeling, the poly cracking off or just strange effects if the mild nitro 'wears' down to bright gloss poly.

 

Has anyone got a bass with this sort of finish and had any experience of how it responds to real use?

 

You can phone Fender and ask - I’m selling a Strat with that finish and a potential buyer phoned them this week, according to Fender the poly/nitro mix came about due to issues with the full nitro ones getting damaged and flaking easy. Pretty sure they explained it in more detail to him regarding the exact process. 
 

I have two AVRI Strats with it, the one I’m selling has some chips but no issues (yet?) coming from it.  

Edited April 6, 2023 by Chiliwailer

[Stub Mandrel]

I emailed Fender yesterday. Today they sent me this:

 

The American Vintage II instruments have a Nitro finish with a Polyurethane undercoat/sealer. It's important to understand that all Nitro finishes are prone to aging and wear over time, including checking as you mentioned. It's very possible that the finish could wear off over time with changes in humidity and temperature as this is a characteristic of Nitro. Many guitar players enjoy the fact that the finish looks more and more worn and vintage over time, others prefer to go with something much more durable such as a Gloss Urethane finish. The Polyurethane undercoat/sealer however does make the finish more stable than a 'thin-skin' or 'flash' nitro finish which is majority nitro and found on a few of our instruments, such as the Hot Rod series. Of all the nitro finishes, this one is definitely more vulnerable than the Nitro with Poly undercoat/sealer. This article may provide some more information for you regarding our finishes: What Type of Finish Is Used on Fender Guitars?. 

 

The nitro over poly sealer has been used since the 60s, according to a link someone posted above.

[Sibob]

On 06/04/2023 at 23:38, Stub Mandrel said:

The nitro over poly sealer has been used since the 60s, according to a link someone posted above.

Yup, from the mid-60’s to the mid 70’s (around 76 I think), pretty much everything was nitro over poly I believe. Nothing new, Fender are simply talking (marketing?!) about old techniques here.

 

Si

[Reggaebass]

I’ve had quite a few AVRI’s and they have all been nitro and fine, the idea was so they would wear like they did back in the day, they can mark easier than a poly finish one and some polishes aren’t recommended, there’s a bit of info on the old materials here 

http://www.guitarhq.com/fenderc.html

[Stub Mandrel]

On 09/04/2023 at 16:51, Reggaebass said:

I’ve had quite a few AVRI’s and they have all been nitro and fine, the idea was so they would wear like they did back in the day, they can mark easier than a poly finish one and some polishes aren’t recommended, there’s a bit of info on the old materials here 

http://www.guitarhq.com/fenderc.html

 

Thanks seen that before but useful to re-read it.