You can’t do that to your song!!

[Mickeyboro]

I went to see the Zombies, whom I love, on Wednesday. They played a trio of songs from Odessey and Oracle that was genuinely heart-stopping. 
 

They then went on to do a 15-minute version of Hold Your Head Up, not even a Zombies song of course though written by Rod Argent, and ended with a version of She’s Not There that featured a four-minute heavy metal guitar solo. And no, it wasn’t even the Santana version. 
 

Given the show was less than 90 mins in total, I would have preferred four more songs. I blame their recent success in the States; last time I looked, Wimborne Tivoli is not a basketball arena. 
 

My point, I suppose, is: having created classic songs, do bands have an absolute right to ruin them?

[ezbass]

5 minutes ago, Mickeyboro said:

 

My point, I suppose, is: having created classic songs, do bands have an absolute right to ruin them?

In short, yes. Doesn’t make it right though. Very much a case of, just because you can, doesn’t mean you should. 

[Doctor J]

The studio is one thing, live is where songs get to breathe, though. They could sneakily mime along to pre-recorded studio tracks like far too many other bands are doing now?

 

I'll take the extended rocking out any day, personally.

[TheGreek]

There comes a point where playing a song as it was recorded must become an absolute bind, give the musicians a chance to be creative and they may just hit on something that others love. 

 

I saw Aswad where halfway through a song they seemed to get into an argument over a mis-played part only for Mr Forde to challenge Mr Gadd with "do you think that I would do that?" and launch into "54-46 was my number ". 

Superb intro for a classic tune. 

 

 

[Cato]

When I got into Led Zep as a teenager I bought the 'Song Remains the Same' live video, only to be simultaneously horrified and bored senseless by the interminably long version of Dazed and Confused featuring Jimmy Page doing awful things to his guitar with a violin bow.

 

I never watched that video again.

 

I completely understand that it gets boring for bands to do the same version of the same songs night after night, tour after tour, but as an audience member there are definitely limits to what I'm prepared to put up with and as a rule I reckon I'd always prefer to hear a shorter version of a classic song than one that's been spun out way past it's original play time.

Edited April 8, 2023 by Cato

[Happy Jack]

I first experienced this sort of nonsense 30 years ago and got very bored with it very quickly.

 

My solution was to stop going to see super-annuated big-name bands from my youth (unless it was part of corporate hostility and someone else was paying).

 

Seriously, I've seen the Stones three times and they've never once been as good as The Counterfeit Stones. Even more bizarrely, an evening with The Bootleg Beatles in 2023 is likely to be a far better gig than seeing The Beatles at Shea Stadium in 1966.

[Lozz196]

I want to hear bands do the songs like the recording, I don’t mind live adjustments but when songs go on forever, well that’s my cue for the khazi.

[tauzero]

1 hour ago, Cato said:

When I got into Led Zep as a teenager I bought the 'Song Remains the Same' live video, only to be simultaneously horrified and bored senseless by the interminably long version of Dazed and Confused featuring Jimmy Page doing awful things to his guitar with a violin bow.

 

I never watched that video again.

 

I went to see it at the cinema when it came out. Much self-indulgent guitar widdlery.

[ezbass]

1 hour ago, Cato said:

When I got into Led Zep as a teenager I bought the 'Song Remains the Same' live video, only to be simultaneously horrified and bored senseless by the interminably long version of Dazed and Confused featuring Jimmy Page doing awful things to his guitar with a violin bow.

 

 

Went to see this on its release too. I was not an LZ fan at the time, it was more just something to do after work. It was alright, I was not moved and found it overindulgent. The song called Stairway something or other was OK though and I bought LZ 4 on the strength of that. No more that 8 weeks later, I had the entire catalogue that was available at that time and I’m still a fan today, with Physical Graffiti being my favourite. Still think the movie is long and not their best output.

 

[Paul S]

8 minutes ago, tauzero said:

 

I went to see it at the cinema when it came out. Much self-indulgent guitar widdlery.

 

Me too, didn't enjoy it.  And Plant was ducking out of the high notes even back then.  

 

I'm also of the mind that I got into a band because of the studio material I have heard so that is generally what I want to hear live.  The very fact that a band can recreate that sound and feel live is, for me, where the magic lies. 

 

There seems to be something of a divide with long established bands that I have seen.  Those who consider it a privilege to be still playing the songs that made them famous and those that consider the audience to be privileged to be watching them.

[fretmeister]

3 hours ago, Mickeyboro said:

I went to see the Zombies, whom I love, on Wednesday. They played a trio of songs from Odessey and Oracle that was genuinely heart-stopping. 
 

They then went on to do a 15-minute version of Hold Your Head Up, not even a Zombies song of course though written by Rod Argent, and ended with a version of She’s Not There that featured a four-minute heavy metal guitar solo. And no, it wasn’t even the Santana version. 
 

Given the show was less than 90 mins in total, I would have preferred four more songs. I blame their recent success in the States; last time I looked, Wimborne Tivoli is not a basketball arena. 
 

My point, I suppose, is: having created classic songs, do bands have an absolute right to ruin them?

 

 

Yes. Of course they do.

 

Whether us punters like it or not is irrelevant to that right.

"Classic" status is irrelevant too. A classic to me might be unlistenable dirge to someone else.

[chris_b]

 

3 hours ago, Mickeyboro said:

. . . . My point, I suppose, is: having created classic songs, do bands have an absolute right to ruin them?

 

I guess they can do what they want, but some of the older bands, who are lucky enough to still be gigging, can lose sight of their audience. There is a thriving and well attended market for 60's artists but the audience is only there for one thing, a walk down memory lane.

 

[itsmedunc]

I’ve always thought that, if everything at a live performance sounded like the record, then the band may as well mime. Or maybe, is it a who’s the best at karaoke event?
I remember a sound engineer I know, went to see Soul 2 Soul (I think) in the early 90’s. He was enraged and felt robbed because they didn’t use any samplers and loops etc that night. They had real musicians playing real instruments instead though! Wasn’t enough for him as he wanted all the technology out so they could sound like the record. 
The profanity filter won’t let me write what I thought about him at the time 😂

[asingardenof]

6 hours ago, Mickeyboro said:

I went to see the Zombies, whom I love, on Wednesday. They played a trio of songs from Odessey and Oracle that was genuinely heart-stopping. 
 

They then went on to do a 15-minute version of Hold Your Head Up, not even a Zombies song of course though written by Rod Argent, and ended with a version of She’s Not There that featured a four-minute heavy metal guitar solo. And no, it wasn’t even the Santana version. 
 

Given the show was less than 90 mins in total, I would have preferred four more songs. I blame their recent success in the States; last time I looked, Wimborne Tivoli is not a basketball arena. 
 

My point, I suppose, is: having created classic songs, do bands have an absolute right to ruin them?

Yes, absolutely. I was reading an interview with Kirk Hammett the other day where he said he hates having to play the same stuff all the time (not that he doesn't like the songs, just that fans expect them to be played more or less as they sound on the record). He said he deliberately went into the recording of the latest album with several options of what to play on the songs so he can mix things up a bit. I imagine that that sort of thinking may play into what you're describing here, although it sounds like ego is the biggest factor.

[pigface]

9 hours ago, Mickeyboro said:

My point, I suppose, is: having created classic songs, do bands have an absolute right to ruin them?

Ha ha! Ever seen Dylan live? It can be a struggle even to recognise what he's playing.

[meterman]

First time I saw Bob Dylan he was headlining a festival, maybe 35 years ago. I wasn’t too familiar with his back catalogue apart from some of his hit singles, but I was familiar enough to know he was basically just messing about. The first third of his set was alternately dire and hilarious, he was doing stuff like reggae versions of “Mr Tambourine Man” in 3/4 time. People in the crowd were leaving early and I was seriously considering leaving too. 
 

But then after about 25 minutes of Dylan basically taking the mick, he suddenly tore into “Maggie’s Farm” and then belted through a set full of tunes from “Blonde On Blonde”, “Bringing It All Back Home”, “Highway 61 Revisited” as if someone had flicked a switch and he was in a garage band in 1966 or something. Brilliant turnaround, and I became a fan after that. 

 

However I’ve seen him a couple of times since then and he was either phoning it in or just mucking about with his own material. Which isn’t great when you’ve spent (or wasted) decent money going to see him. He’s playing a festival near me this summer and I live in the middle of nowhere so it’s probably the last chance I’d get to see him but I’m really not sure whether to bother if he’s just going to fanniey about.
 

 

[lidl e]

Personally, I love all the versions on SRTS. Ive listened to it so many times i can do the entire album in my head.

 

But it must be torture for bands to have to play the same songs for years on end. I get bored playing the same stuff and we only play out a handful of times.

 

I was watching a few of Depeche Mode's encores on this recent tour. Same three songs, performed the same way they have been playing them for 40 years. 

 

It cant be fun. At that point it's just a job. Very well paying, but still a grind I'd think.

 

They did sound very good though.

[Old Horse Murphy]

I always think playing your hit(s) must feel a bit like this:

 

 

Edited April 8, 2023 by Old Horse Murphy

[Woodinblack]

Some changes are good, some aren't, although if you have to hear it like the album, probably better going to see a tribute act then the original.  

[yorks5stringer]

I could never be a Zombie...all that running around!

[Waddo Soqable]

11 minutes ago, yorks5stringer said:

I could never be a Zombie...all that running around!

And you get shot with a crossbow... 

[Baloney Balderdash]

Yes they can, and yes they should.

 

Rather listen to the record, listen to the record.

 

[iconic]

I'm an old, miserable, crusty paying punter, so maybe I'm one of Ralph's audience. 

 

I'm not at the gig because I want to hear musos getting uber precious about their popular songs, I'm paying to be entertained, not the band to entertained, it's a huge difference ...the hits are popular for a reason, we like them and we want to, what's the word.... 'resonate' along to them or there's a danger of feeling hard done by. It's a delicate path, get it right and it's great, but more often...

 

And it's usually the same 'remix' too, slowed right down like a musty folky open mic night, a lot of wailing, a solo bit on an odd 'hey nony nony' woodwind instrument, and more than few in the audience looking about thinking, ney hoping, it will suddenly stop, then leap into something more recognisable....maybe harsh but rarely do I think "that worked well". 

 

A few very random examples. 

 

I've heard Mozza do it, was shockingly bad, even his hardcore had raised brows....did someone at the back here say it must of been an improvement?

 

Been there when Rose Royce did it all night, and it was all night... punters leaving by any open door and, the band calling the audience out between songs, "wheres your respect" and worse.

Was the Winter Gardens, not some chic, prosecco infested jazz bar, with a silent audience, nodding approvingly at the alternative tunings and chordal theorise. 

 

The exception that proves the rule: My mate got free tickets for Transvision Vamp (remember them) from Wendy James dad.

As we were working 5 mins from the gig, we thought what's to loose.

To be fair they were very good live, tight as, but, had about 5 songs.

We were treated to more versions of I Want Your Love, than I thought possible, but without those erm, remixes it would of been a long wait outside for our lift, and it was middle of winter. 

 

Mate of mines good friends with Dave Hill of Slade fame, met Mr Hill a couple of times albeit few years back now, a real fun straight up fella. Definitely not, a case of never meet ya hero's as I was a real fan back in the day. 

His take on doing the same tunes?.... why not, and why wouldn't you, they are good earners, pay the bills, and he enjoys smiles on the punters faces and they are paying guests. Music is/was his business, he remembers when didn't have pot to urinate in. 

OK Slade have been and gone, but I think it's still a fair example. 

 

Or to summarise. Give us what we want, not what you want, or we may not pay again. 

Edited April 9, 2023 by iconic

[Baloney Balderdash]

14 minutes ago, iconic said:

I'm an old, miserable, crusty paying punter, so maybe I'm one of Ralph's audience. 

 

I'm not at the gig because I want to hear musos getting uber precious about their popular songs, I'm paying to be entertained, not the band to entertained, it's a huge difference ...the hits are popular for a reason, we like them and we want to, what's the word.... 'resonate' along to them or there's a danger of feeling hard done by. It's a delicate path, get it right and it's great, but more often...

 

And it's usually the same 'remix' too, slowed right down like a musty folky open mic night, a lot of wailing, a solo bit on an odd 'hey nony nony' woodwind instrument, and more than few in the audience looking about thinking, ney hoping, it will suddenly stop, then leap into something more recognisable....maybe harsh but rarely do I think "that worked well". 

 

A few very random examples. 

 

I've heard Mozza do it, was shockingly bad, even his hardcore had raised brows....did someone at the back here say it must of been an improvement?

 

Been there when Rose Royce did it all night, and it was all night... punters leaving by any open door and, the band calling the audience out between songs, "wheres your respect" and worse.

Was the Winter Gardens, not some chic, prosecco infested jazz bar, with a silent audience, nodding approvingly at the alternative tunings and chordal theorise. 

 

The exception that proves the rule: My mate got free tickets for Transvision Vamp (remember them) from Wendy James dad.

As we were working 5 mins from the gig, we thought what's to loose.

To be fair they were very good live, tight as, but, had about 5 songs.

We were treated to more versions of I Want Your Love, than I thought possible, but without those erm, remixes it would of been a long wait outside for our lift, and it was middle of winter. 

 

Mate of mines good friends with Dave Hill of Slade fame, met Mr Hill a couple of times albeit few years back now, a real fun straight up fella. Definitely not, a case of never meet ya hero's as I was a real fan back in the day. 

His take on doing the same tunes?.... why not, and why wouldn't you, they are good earners, pay the bills, and he enjoys smiles on the punters faces and they are paying guests. Music is/was his business, he remembers when didn't have pot to urinate in. 

OK Slade have been and gone, but I think it's still a fair example. 

 

Or to summarise. Give us what we want, not what you want, or we make not pay again. 

 

I guess that's the difference between viewing music as a form of entertainment or as an artform. 

 

I suppose it can be, and often are, both, but for me personally it is first an foremost an artform, then secondarily a form of entertainment. 

 

Other than that I actually also find an inspired artist that have fun performing a lot more interesting, and yes, entertaining too, to listen to than the dreaded sad alternative of a worn out entertainer stuck in their own tired routines.

 

 

Edited April 9, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[Crusoe]

I don't mind much if a band changes some of their songs a bit, but stretching a four minute song to fifteen is just self-indulgence. I'm away for a pint at that point.