Recommended starter amp for gigs

[JeffMW]

Hi all,

 

Post no.1 for me!

 

As a bit of background I have played guitar for years, but I have been playing more bass as well lately - really wish I got stuck in sooner to be honest!!  Fast forward to now I have joined a function band, and I am now looking for a bass amp setup for gigs and there are simply so many options so was after some recommendations.  Thus far we have been rehearsing direct using my Line 6 HX stomp.

 

As far as my needs go, I would like something light weight.  Between combos and head/cab setups, whilst I wouldn't rule out either, I do like the idea of having a small head, and be able to have flexibility with cabs.  In terms of power, it will need enough oomph to sit with the band so I was guessing 500W+ for class D amps (open to advice on that front), and I would want the ability to DI as well.  Music wise, it is a multi genre juke box band, including a good amount of Duran Duran type stuff, through to Abba, Sister Sledge, and Bruno Mars - so quite fun on the bass.

 

I was going to try to get hands on and try as many as possible, however options can be limited in what is stocked in shops, and of course I am having an eye out on the second hand market.  Thus far in terms of heads I have looked at things such as the TC Electronic BH and BQ series and matching cabs.  Being my first live bass rig, I wouldn't say I am looking for absolute entry level stuff, but looking for some decent solid options that come at a reasonable price if that makes sense!

 

Thanks in advance

 

Jeff

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 9, 2023 by JeffMW

[colleya]

Hi Jeff,

 

Welcome to BC. I think you've got a pretty realistic idea of what to look for in a decent gig rig.

 

I've tried a few of the class D amps from different brands. Of course it's all subjective but for me the Markbass LM3 and Ashdown RM 500 have been the best. I keep coming back to Ashdown as a really solid choice that gives me a very usable tone for the band across a variety of different genres. I'm currently running a RM500.

 

I suspect lots of folk will say that you'll get more for your money buying used, and I agree. You can pick up an RM 500 for about 250-300 on the for sale boards here.

 

Cab wise, I'm not as sure. I got a TKS 212 a while back and it's not going anywhere. However it's not especially small or really light weight compared to the stuff from Barefaced etc. It does sound ace though.

 

Good luck with the hunt, it's half the fun!

 

Andy

[Lozz196]

For the type of music specified I agree with the above, both amps have plenty of the warmth that the bass needs for those songs. Similarly I use the Ashdown RM500, as well as being a bit more versatile with the eq Ashdown are based in the UK and their customer service is excellent so in the unlikely event of an issue it’s easy to get sorted - not so with a few other brands sadly.

[chris_b]

Skip entry level, and several levels after that. 

 

My minimum would be a good 500-800 watt head and 2 good 112's. I use Aguilar amps and Barefaced cabs. They cover any genre and playing situation. They are light, loud, modular, great sounding and reliable.

[gjones]

53 minutes ago, chris_b said:

Skip entry level, and several levels after that. 

 

My minimum would be a good 500-800 watt head and 2 good 112's. I use Aguilar amps and Barefaced cabs. They cover any genre and playing situation. They are light, loud, modular, great sounding and reliable.

I agree about skipping entry level. Buy a good brand secondhand and you'll get most of your money back if you ever need to sell.

 

Whatever you do don't skimp on the speakers, as they are the weak link. If the speakers can't run loud and clean, it doesn't matter how posh your amp is, you'll still sound rubbish.

[JeffMW]

Thanks guys that is a massive help.  Ashdown were not on my radar at all (for no good reason).  Aguilar I had heard of, but I have zero real world experience of them.  Whilst I do love gear, being new to bass I don't know much about the bass-specific brands and there are so many options out there.   The bassist in my other band played GK amps (2x10 plus 1x15) for a long time (we now go direct on everything) so I at least know how they can sound, but my knowledge stops there.

 

Cabs, I would be interested to know more about Barefaced.  In my mind, if I can get cab(s) that are light weight, reasonably sized so they are both magically portable and sound full - awesome!

 

Obviously with my lack of lived experience/knowledge I would like to hit the jackpot and get it right first time if I can.  I have time before I need to acquire everything so I am going to try out what I can before pulling the trigger.  For now the plan is to at least get a list together of things I need to give a whirl.  

 

 

[Elfrasho]

This entirely depends on your band's PA set up? If your PA is doing all the heavy lifting then your amp will be purely for monitoring, and therefore you really don't need a massive rig. If you high quality monitoring already then you really don't need an amp at all - let you Helix do it all.

Edited April 9, 2023 by Elfrasho

[JeffMW]

18 minutes ago, Elfrasho said:

This entirely depends on your band's PA set up? If your PA is doing all the heavy lifting then your amp will be purely for monitoring, and therefore you really don't need a massive rig. If you high quality monitoring already then you really don't need an amp at all - let you Helix do it all.

To date we have been rehearsing with me going direct using the band's PA.  To be fair, I made a dedicated Mesa 400+ based preset that does sound sweet and slots in the mix nicely.  Knowing the joys of going direct in my other band I would say going direct would work great as long as all gigs involve the band PA, but alas I have been advised that I should get an amp.  This would be DI'd as well, with much of the band using in-ears for monitoring etc which I will join in on probably.  I was prepared to purchase an amp anyway as there are benefits, and I will probably still use the helix for a few effects as necessary, and on standby to DI as a backup option.

Edited April 9, 2023 by JeffMW

[jezzaboy]

Don`t take this the wrong way but if you are using in ears for monitoring and a Helix into the pa you don`t really need an amp. If you have to have some kind of amp for monitoring I would get a decent pa speaker or FRFR speaker and use that.

[Elfrasho]

8 minutes ago, JeffMW said:

To date we have been rehearsing with me going direct using the band's PA.  To be fair, I made a dedicated Mesa 400+ based preset that does sound sweet and slots in the mix nicely.  Knowing the joys of going direct in my other band I would say going direct would work great as long as all gigs involve the band PA, but alas I have been advised that I should get an amp.  This would be DI'd as well, with much of the band using in-ears for monitoring etc which I will join in on probably.  I was prepared to purchase an amp anyway as there are benefits, and I will probably still use the helix for a few effects as necessary, and on standby to DI as a backup option.

 

If the band is going down the IEM route then amps are pointless and in fact make things worse. In my experience, it's best to get the stage noise as low as possible. 

 

It sounds like you're needing an amp for monitoring only, so I would go the FRFR route, or a small 1x12 combo at most in all honesty.  Having to load in and load out a full stack every gig gets tedious pretty quickly!

[JeffMW]

25 minutes ago, jezzaboy said:

Don`t take this the wrong way but if you are using in ears for monitoring and a Helix into the pa you don`t really need an amp. If you have to have some kind of amp for monitoring I would get a decent pa speaker or FRFR speaker and use that.

 

12 minutes ago, Elfrasho said:

 

If the band is going down the IEM route then amps are pointless and in fact make things worse. In my experience, it's best to get the stage noise as low as possible. 

 

It sounds like you're needing an amp for monitoring only, so I would go the FRFR route, or a small 1x12 combo at most in all honesty.  Having to load in and load out a full stack every gig gets tedious pretty quickly!

 

Hey Jezzaboy nothing to take the wrong way whatsoever, no worries at all.  I totally understand where you are both coming from with this.  Ultimately I was advised I should get an amp, and before I tried out for this act I factored in that I would probably need to get an amp for myself  - not knowing their full setup.  The guitarist himself uses his amp and he mics that up, and the PA setup presently doesn't have bass bins if that matters.  I am not using IEMs for myself right now.

 

In terms of amp size, I have no desire to lug about a massive stack by any means - been there done that!  As I said before, something lightweight, compact but effective would be ideal.  To broaden out the question, FRFR vs traditional amp?

 

 

 

 

[Japhet]

Can't go wrong with a Fender Rumble in my opinion if you actually need an amp. Probably get away with a 100 if it's just onstage monitoring although a 500 is very loud and also very light and capable of full on gigs.

[JeffMW]

1 hour ago, Japhet said:

Can't go wrong with a Fender Rumble in my opinion if you actually need an amp. Probably get away with a 100 if it's just onstage monitoring although a 500 is very loud and also very light and capable of full on gigs.

Cheers for that.  Noted and on the list.  That is one that comes up a lot in various lists for gigging amps.

[BassmanPaul]

Using a Helix why not consider feeding a power amp with it, if the signal levels are conducive. Then a Barefaced cabinet to provide the volume you need.

[Downunderwonder]

10 hours ago, JeffMW said:

with much of the band using in-ears for monitoring

If you are happy going to IEM the only reason for you to need an amp is for the few who are not. That's a bit strange.

 

I wouldn't mind betting there's at least one turkey playing way too loud in the lacking in-ears group.

 

I don't believe in half measures for bass amplification. Neither do I believe in catering to idiots, especially when there is PA. The bass that you make on stage messes with the front of house sound.

 

Plug your Helix into a clean power amp like a Quilter and a full range cab like a Barefaced. What comes out will be very close to a FOH sound.

 

For the love of bass, EQ the PA to the room before trying to EQ anything else.

 

Edit, I should have read the remainder of posts.

 

Since your PA is without bass bins aka subwoofers I can't imagine it is all that beefy in the kick or bass when it gets cranked up. You might be better playing to the room along with the drummer and leaving PA to vocals and all the other squawky parts.

Edited April 9, 2023 by Downunderwonder

[colleya]

If you like the sound you're getting with your Mesa patch, they do a class D amp - the D800. I've not tried one, but folk on here seem to like them. The only setback is that they're more expensive than most other class D stuff.

 

For reference, I play in an 80s cover band that is a mix between IEM and not. I use amp/cab for the room and have iem as earplugs and to bleed a little bass, kick and my BV. It's a pretty simple setup that even my limited tech ability can handle. I would fully agree with @Lozz196about Ashdown customer service too.

 

Cab wise, I'd quite like to swap my 2x12 for 2 1x12 for a bit more versatility, but it's not a deal breaker. I've had a couple of Barefaced cabs and they're great, but my TKS just sounds more 'full' to me.

 

I can't comment on using helix etc as I've not been in a band that made it worth investigating. Would be interested to try though.

 

Andy

 

[jrixn1]

On 09/04/2023 at 13:32, JeffMW said:

I made a dedicated Mesa 400+ based preset that does sound sweet and slots in the mix nicely.

 

Sounds like you're happy with your Helix tone - and that goes 100% hand in hand with neutral amplification.

 

You could get separates, but really you can't beat powered speakers for this application:
E.g. RCF 732-A is £700 and 18kg.  (This is what I used to have.)
FBT ProMaxx 112a is £750 and 15kg. (This is what I have now.)
Or similar from QSC (K12.2) and Yamaha (DXR12).

 

As a comparison, if you were to buy separates: just looking at cabs, a Big Baby 3 is £1150 or a LFSys Monaco is £750.  I.e. already costs more even without buying a power amp yet.

 

The above RCF etc powered speakers all have DSP, one advantage of which is that it allows you to get the most out of the speaker physically if you did need to push it, but while also preventing it from damage.  Having said that, I play in a 10-piece function band, and a 12" powered speaker is more than enough - I've never been close to running out of volume.

 

Form factor is great as has tilt (wedge) ability built in.

 

Lots of different venues, some of which with poor stage acoustics - but I never have a problem hearing myself, due to the good dispersion and clarity of the powered speaker.  This was not always the case with my previous traditional bass cabs.
 

[BassAdder60]

I would look for the SVT212AV cab 

Powerful enough to be used on its own for small or large gigs 

 

Pair it with the Ashdown RM500 or similar 500w head and you have a tidy rig that will suit nearly all gigs. 
 

I think you need a clear clean kind of bass tone which that rig will provide and if your next band is say rock it’s good for that too  !!

 

Here below are other reasonably priced heads 

Orange Little Bass Thing 

Mark Bass LM111 or IV 

Ampeg PF800 avoid the 350 and 500

Ashdown RM800 

 

 

[police squad]

Another +1 for the Ahdown RM500 EVO II. Great tones, lightweight

I also picked up an almost new RM 4 x10 for £100 on ebay. Only weighs 20kg.

I was using a Mark Bass club 1x15 cab. Very good and portable but sometimes lacked on big stages if I couldn't place it near a wall (rear ported)

 

You can get easily sorted for not much money

Ashdown service is second to none. I wish I had gone to Ashdown sooner.

 

There is a post above saying to avoid the Ampeg PF500. I disagree. They did have a reliability issue (first one died on its first gig) but the second one did 6 years of hard gigging, sounded fab and never missed a beat

[asingardenof]

On 09/04/2023 at 13:02, JeffMW said:

Thanks guys that is a massive help.  Ashdown were not on my radar at all (for no good reason).  Aguilar I had heard of, but I have zero real world experience of them.  Whilst I do love gear, being new to bass I don't know much about the bass-specific brands and there are so many options out there.   The bassist in my other band played GK amps (2x10 plus 1x15) for a long time (we now go direct on everything) so I at least know how they can sound, but my knowledge stops there.

 

Cabs, I would be interested to know more about Barefaced.  In my mind, if I can get cab(s) that are light weight, reasonably sized so they are both magically portable and sound full - awesome!

 

Obviously with my lack of lived experience/knowledge I would like to hit the jackpot and get it right first time if I can.  I have time before I need to acquire everything so I am going to try out what I can before pulling the trigger.  For now the plan is to at least get a list together of things I need to give a whirl.  

 

 

I would second Ashdown. They weren't really on my radar either until I borrowed a ABM EVO from @Merton and I was blown away, especially through the Barefaced Two10S cab I bought from @thebrig. I'm now on a EVO-IV purchased from @walshy and am looking forward to trying it out with the Barefaced at band practice in a couple of weeks. Keep an eye on the for sale section on this site as Barefaced cabs and good heads (stop sniggering at the back there) become available quite regularly.

[Paul S]

17 hours ago, jrixn1 said:

 

Sounds like you're happy with your Helix tone - and that goes 100% hand in hand with neutral amplification.

 

You could get separates, but really you can't beat powered speakers for this application:
E.g. RCF 732-A is £700 and 18kg.  (This is what I used to have.)
FBT ProMaxx 112a is £750 and 15kg. (This is what I have now.)
Or similar from QSC (K12.2) and Yamaha (DXR12).

 

As a comparison, if you were to buy separates: just looking at cabs, a Big Baby 3 is £1150 or a LFSys Monaco is £750.  I.e. already costs more even without buying a power amp yet.

 

The above RCF etc powered speakers all have DSP, one advantage of which is that it allows you to get the most out of the speaker physically if you did need to push it, but while also preventing it from damage.  Having said that, I play in a 10-piece function band, and a 12" powered speaker is more than enough - I've never been close to running out of volume.

 

Form factor is great as has tilt (wedge) ability built in.

 

Lots of different venues, some of which with poor stage acoustics - but I never have a problem hearing myself, due to the good dispersion and clarity of the powered speaker.  This was not always the case with my previous traditional bass cabs.
 

 

This.  Ever so very much this.   You've got your tone shaping done via the pedal, all you need is to stick it through a powered FRFR.  It is SO much simpler and eliminates the madness inducing rabbit hole of 'which backline'.   If you already DI you just need on stage monitoring (or in-ears, but that is another rabbit hole)

 

I took the plunge about 3 years ago and wish I had done it long ago.  Then again I don't think the FRFR stuff was as good or as light years ago.  It really is liberating!

[stevie]

On 11/04/2023 at 17:46, jrixn1 said:

 

Sounds like you're happy with your Helix tone - and that goes 100% hand in hand with neutral amplification.

 

You could get separates, but really you can't beat powered speakers for this application:
E.g. RCF 732-A is £700 and 18kg.  (This is what I used to have.)
FBT ProMaxx 112a is £750 and 15kg. (This is what I have now.)
Or similar from QSC (K12.2) and Yamaha (DXR12).

 

As a comparison, if you were to buy separates: just looking at cabs, a Big Baby 3 is £1150 or a LFSys Monaco is £750.  I.e. already costs more even without buying a power amp yet.

 

The above RCF etc powered speakers all have DSP, one advantage of which is that it allows you to get the most out of the speaker physically if you did need to push it, but while also preventing it from damage.  Having said that, I play in a 10-piece function band, and a 12" powered speaker is more than enough - I've never been close to running out of volume.

 

Form factor is great as has tilt (wedge) ability built in.

 

Lots of different venues, some of which with poor stage acoustics - but I never have a problem hearing myself, due to the good dispersion and clarity of the powered speaker.  This was not always the case with my previous traditional bass cabs.
 

 

I agree with @jrixn1's post. As the OP already has a preamp, buying a powered speaker is definitely a sensible option.

 

But..........I must take issue with the cost comparison with the LFSys Monaco. Although the Monaco is an FRFR speaker and works well as a vocal or general-purpose PA and monitor, it was designed specifically to handle bass guitar. Most of the cost of the speaker has therefore gone into the bass driver and cabinet. The RCF, on the other hand, is a general-purpose PA cabinet whose main aim is to reproduce midrange frequencies, i.e. vocals. The manufacturer's money has therefore gone into the very nice midrange/HF driver and horn - which is perfectly understandable and good.

 

 

Now, if you take a close look at the 12" driver used in the RCF cab, you'll discover that it's a 300W, ceramic magnet speaker with a pressed steel chassis and relatively short voicecoil - good for midrange efficiency, but not for bass power handling. The driver in the LFSys, by contrast, not only has twice the power handling (same AES rating) but twice the excursion. This means that it would take *two* RCF cabinets to achieve the same excursion-limited SPL as the LFSys.

 

If you want a wooden cabinet, you'll have to spend £1200 on the NX 32a, which has the same driver complement (although its 12" woofer gets a cast chassis).You'd then be looking at spending £2,400 and you'd be carting over 40kg to your gigs. And if you don't have a Kemper or a preamp, you'd have to buy one.

 

So, while the RCF could be a good solution to the OP's specific problem as long as he's happy with the output levels available from the 732-A, it won't do what an LFSys Monaco with, say, a Veyron BC1001M will do for a total of about a grand. I thought I ought to mention that. 😊

 

 

[BigRedX]

If you like what you are hearing from your HX Stomp you might not want a traditional bass amp and cabs adding additional colouration to your sound. Therefore you should also consider an FRFR (powered PA cab) from the likes of QSC or RCF. Have a look at the many FRFR threads for more ideas.

[ukbassboy]

There's someone in the market place selling a Genz Benz Shuttlemax 12.2 and GB 2x12 speaker for something like £650. If was after an instant one stop function band setup I'd jump at that. I've been using the Shuttlemax 12.0 for 15 ish years and it is superb. Small, light, ridiculous amounts of power and flexibility (1200w if you have two 4ohm speakers!) and separate tube and mosfet channels. I run my Stomp into that and when required run a pre-eq DI out to PA. My speaker is a Barefaced which is also superb, but you pay big money for those used - the GB that comes in that rig isnt quite as light as a BF, but will likely be all the speaker you'll ever need for a function band. 

Of course, there are all sorts of options, but having done functions for years the key traits I'd be looking for a small, light and simple. 

[Dan Dare]

There is also a Tecamp M212 cab in the Marketplace (not being sold by anyone I know, so not trying to boost a pal's sale)). £340 and 4 ohms, so will make the most of whatever amp you use it with. They are light cabs and quite compact. One should provide all the poke you will ever need for function band and similar work with a suitable head.