Which multi effects pedal do you use?

[BigRedX]

@Smanth Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions.

 

I'm not sure if we are taking about all the same thing when it come to MIDI control. I need to ability to be able the alter parameters using MIDI CCs but I also need to ability to "trigger" effects from MIDI notes. For instance your compressor example, have that activated not by the incoming audio signal but by a MIDI note on/off command, so that the compressor acts according to what the MIDI note information is doing and not the audio that it is processing - sort of using MIDI as the side-chain controller. Is that possible?

 

Unfortunately I'm even less likely to want to use Bluetooth to send MIDI commands. Some of what I would want to do using MIDI is timing critical and Bluetooth simply isn't dependable enough. Wires are always IME more reliable but they also need equally reliable plugs/sockets at the ends of them and IME mini-jacks, USB, and those funny pedal power plugs are not those things. The photo of your pedal board with one of the leads connected via an adaptor gives me anxiety just looking at it...

 

It's a smart idea, and when they see fit to make a proper "pro" version with a built-in PSU and standard mains lead to power it, good quality locking DIN connectors for MIDI and XRLs for audio, and a decent sized display (While I don't do a lot of editing from the front panel on my Helix the big display is essential on stage as it acts as a digital set list) I'll have another look.

[PaulWarning]

Zoom B1on user, I have a B1 four but prefer the B1on, only use various distortion and eq

[Woodinblack]

4 hours ago, Smanth said:

I've finally landed on the little known MOD Audio Dwarf. Not just F/X but also Synth, Looper (By Looperlative), Sequencer, Recorder, IR (of course) and recently Neural Modelling by AIDA-X.

 

Thats interesting - I didn't know about that, similar to some older projects but all in a box. Basically an audio processor with 2 channels in and out and you can do what you want in the middle. and its not too big (sadly not too many buttons either!).

If I could also use that for sample playing (which it seems I could), that could be more useful to me than my current stomp, and also you can make your own pedals 

[SamIAm]

10 hours ago, BigRedX said:

I need to ability to be able the alter parameters using MIDI CCs but I also need to ability to "trigger" effects from MIDI notes. For instance your compressor example, have that activated not by the incoming audio signal but by a MIDI note on/off command, so that the compressor acts according to what the MIDI note information is doing and not the audio that it is processing - sort of using MIDI as the side-chain controller. Is that possible?

I believe it is, there are a few pedalboards I've seen that have that level of complexity ... but I've not played with them myself as it is above what I need.

 

I get the impression that you use one of the high end Helix units (you mention IEC power) ... the Dwarf cannot compare to those, it plays more in the field of the HX Stomp.

 

And yes, the power supply cable on my rig is ... iffy!  I'm trying to locate a 90 degree adapter so it has a lower profile and then secure it in place more robustly

 

S'manth x

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, Smanth said:

I believe it is, there are a few pedalboards I've seen that have that level of complexity ... but I've not played with them myself as it is above what I need.

 

I spent a bit of time looking at it. It can and does take (and agrigate if required) midi sources in, and enables you to use full midi (it appears you could actually make a synth with it). WHether there is a compressor that uses the note on / off is probably doubtful as I doubt that many people have ever wanted to do that, but there are several open source plugins which would be easy enough to modify if you could do that, or find someone else to do it.

 

I think for me it would be the ability to run things like that, off the beaten track, and also to make routings that weren't possible on any other multi-fx.

 

Really it is an audio effects processor with jack sockets.

 

The Mod Duo X has proper midi sockets if you need those (and CV and Gate, so more audio processing style)

 

1 hour ago, Smanth said:

And yes, the power supply cable on my rig is ... iffy!  I'm trying to locate a 90 degree adapter so it has a lower profile and then secure it in place more robustly

 

I got mine on ebay, I can't have leads coming out of the back of something straight, as that is where the people are at a gig, and some of them insist on getting pretty close.

[BigRedX]

1 hour ago, Smanth said:

I believe it is, there are a few pedalboards I've seen that have that level of complexity ... but I've not played with them myself as it is above what I need.

 

I get the impression that you use one of the high end Helix units (you mention IEC power) ... the Dwarf cannot compare to those, it plays more in the field of the HX Stomp.

 

And yes, the power supply cable on my rig is ... iffy!  I'm trying to locate a 90 degree adapter so it has a lower profile and then secure it in place more robustly

 

S'manth x

 

The internal PSU and IEC mains connector was one of the things that made me choose the Helix Floor over other similar multi-effects. The two guitarists in one of my bands also use floor-mounted multi-effects (one has a POD and other something by Boss) and both are on at least their third PSU because the cable or connector on the low voltage side has become damaged to the point where it has failed or has become so unreliable as to be useless. That's just through normal wear and tear from rehearsals and gigs.

 

In the past when I have had equipment with external PSUs it's always been rack mounted where the PSU could also be secured in the rack case and the cables tied up in place and if necessary (it normally was) the connectors hot glued into place, as the last thing you want is for a difficult to reach connector becoming disconnected.

 

I've said this so many times that everyone is probably bored of it now, but IME consumer-grade computer cables and connections have no place in a gigging environment. I realise that they make the equipment cheaper to produce and easier to connect because it uses standard cables and connectors, but that does matter at all if it also makes the equipment unreliable. Personally I'd like to have the option of a "pro" version with good quality connectors - that's PowerCon for mains and XLRs for everything else (although I'll settle for 1/4" jacks for unbalanced audio, 5-pin DIN for MIDI and IEC for mains if I really have to).

 

[Woodinblack]

47 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

The internal PSU and IEC mains connector was one of the things that made me choose the Helix Floor over other similar multi-effects. The two guitarists in one of my bands also use floor-mounted multi-effects (one has a POD and other something by Boss) and both are on at least their third PSU because the cable or connector on the low voltage side has become damaged to the point where it has failed or has become so unreliable as to be useless. That's just through normal wear and tear from rehearsals and gigs.

 

I have never had any of that with pedalboard stuff, but certainly I have when they are loose. If they are bolted and cabletied to a pedalboard then i have never had any problem with the plug end - I really hate the wallwart power supplies, I think they have no place gigging, so I took mine apart and put in a metal box with an IEC lead.

I have no problem with mini jacks if the cables are tied down but then i was never a really a fan of 5 pin dins (not that I have had problems with that). My synths run from my iPad from a 3.5mm jack (via an extension that is tied to my microphone stand.

 

I have never had a lead issue on a gig apart from failing XLRs which are the ones that go across the floor. Normally singer related damage.

 

I would agree, that power connector on Smanths box would give me anxiety - I would break that even without the crowd!

 

 

 

[BigRedX]

32 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

I have never had any of that with pedalboard stuff, but certainly I have when they are loose. If they are bolted and cabletied to a pedalboard then i have never had any problem with the plug end - I really hate the wallwart power supplies, I think they have no place gigging, so I took mine apart and put in a metal box with an IEC lead.

I have no problem with mini jacks if the cables are tied down but then i was never a really a fan of 5 pin dins (not that I have had problems with that). My synths run from my iPad from a 3.5mm jack (via an extension that is tied to my microphone stand.

 

I have never had a lead issue on a gig apart from failing XLRs which are the ones that go across the floor. Normally singer related damage.

 

I would agree, that power connector on Smanths box would give me anxiety - I would break that even without the crowd!

 

The thing with large multi-effects pedals is that no pedal board should be necessary. They are the replacement for a board full of pedals. You just plonk them down on stage and plug in, which is why consumer-grade connectors don't work on anything that is designed to be a "one-stop" solution to a traditional pedal board. I suppose the "pro" version would be to have everything securely rack mounted and just use a MIDI floor controller, but even then you generally end up with DIN sockets and external PSUs (or cat5 cables in the case of Line6 - I still haven't found a gig-proof cat5/5e/6 cable that I can rely on).

 

I've always replaced my MIDI cables with XLRs as far as possible. The original MIDI standard connector was supposed to be XLR but then everyone including Dave Smith who came up with the idea ignored it and went with DIN instead.

[Woodinblack]

2 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

The thing with large multi-effects pedals is that no pedal board should be necessary.

 

Indeed, and in that case the Helix LT I had was perfect. However, the LT wasn't a replacement for everything I needed, and at that point it became too big. If it is a replacement for everything you need, that is good, but I needed a sample player, a vocal effect and a keyboard pedalboard, so it was too big and I got rid of it.

 

 

2 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

The original MIDI standard connector was supposed to be XLR but then everyone including Dave Smith who came up with the idea ignored it and went with DIN instead.

 

Was it? It specifies the 5 pin DIN plug / sockets in the original MIDI specification 1.0, which I paid for a copy of in 1983. It said other sockets could be used.

[Greg Edwards69]

3 hours ago, Smanth said:

And yes, the power supply cable on my rig is ... iffy!  I'm trying to locate a 90 degree adapter so it has a lower profile and then secure it in place more robustly

 

2 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

I got mine on ebay, I can't have leads coming out of the back of something straight, as that is where the people are at a gig, and some of them insist on getting pretty close.

Same here. The power socket on my Headrush speaker is in exactly the right place to damage a straight IEC plug when used in tilt-back monitor orientation. I found an appropriately angled 90 degree lead on Amazon to rectify this oversight. I believe the particular seller sold them in both left and right versions. Up and down 90 degree adaptors are also available

 

Amazon.co.uk : right angle IEXC

Edited April 19, 2023 by Greg Edwards69

[BigRedX]

1 hour ago, Woodinblack said:

Was it? It specifies the 5 pin DIN plug / sockets in the original MIDI specification 1.0, which I paid for a copy of in 1983. It said other sockets could be used.

 

IIRC the specification was originally going to be XLRs when MIDI was first announced to the general public in 1982. By the time the first actual devices with MIDI interfaces had been released the following year along with the V1.0 spec that had been changed due to pressure from the Japanese Manufacturers to 5-Pin DIN for reasons of cost. Only Octave Plateau stuck with XLRs.

 

Also IIRC once the 5-pin DIN had been standardised, any manufacturer not using them was supposed to supply suitable adaptors. Certainly my Tenori-On which has a single multi-way socket for MIDI came complete with the appropriate cable terminating in 5-Pin DIN female plugs. I wonder how manufacturers like Mod devices get away with using 3.5mm jacks and no adaptor cables?

Edited April 19, 2023 by BigRedX

[Woodinblack]

15 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

Also IIRC once the 5-pin DIN had been standardised, any manufacturer not using them was supposed to supply suitable adaptors. Certainly my Tenori-On which has a single multi-way socket for MIDI came complete with the appropriate cable terminating in 5-Pin DIN female plugs. I wonder how manufacturers like Mod devices get away with using 3.5mm jacks and no adaptor cables?

 

Well, there is a 'standard' way of wiring a 3.5mm stereo jack for midi, but certainly all the devices I had that had mini jacks (such as the yamaha reface DX and widi interface) for midi came with an adapter. I doubt anyone cares that much about midi certifcation any more, especially with a lot of devices not bothering with midi, and using USB instead, which I am not a fan of, even though it is a handy 'as well'.

 

Do the mod devices not come with one now - I watched a few videos on them yesterday and one of them certainly had the adapter in the box from new (although it seemed only one)

 

Edit - now I have gone back and looked several of them dont, so not sure if it is a pre/post company collapse thing!

 

edit 2 - looking through my leads I realise that the reface has a old mac serial type socket with midi leads that came with it, and the 3.5mm jacks came with the widi interace, the Novation circuit and the midi plus box.

[Baloney Balderdash]

A Zoom B1Xon and a Zoom G1on currently on my board, and love them, using a 3rd party firmware hack app to get exactly the collection of the same generation of Zoom effect models (all effect models from the G1(X)on, B1(X)on, MS-50G, MS-60B, MS-70CDR available to freely chose from, and working flawlessly) on them that I wish (something Zoom really ought to have made possible themself right from the start as far as I am concerned). 

 

I love the B1Xon, that uses same previous generation Zoom effect models as the current production Multi Stomp boxes, which in my opinion is far superior to the current generation Zoom B1 Four and G1 Four (which I do actually own both of, but will likely never use again because of how horrible they are), both in terms of flexibility/customization options/tweakability and controls, but actually also in terms of sound quality.

 

I also own a Zoom MS-70CDR and a backup Zoom G1Xon, loaded, via the firmware hack app that I mentioned, with the same custom collection of Zoom effect models as my B1Xon.

 

If I was to upgrade it would probably end up being for the MOD Dwarf, or possibly either a HoTone Ampero II Stomp or a Boss GT-1000 Core.

 

But I am actually really satisfied with my Zoom multi effects, except for the drive and pitch effects and the amp/cab sims, which are admittedly pretty bad, but just about every other effect (comp, filter, mod, delay, reverb) in these previous generation Zoom multi effects sounds genuinely great as far as I am concerned (and as said, as far as I am concerned, way better than the current generation Zoom multi effect units/digital effect models), just about as good as anything really.

 

Edited May 6, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[tauzero]

4 hours ago, BigRedX said:

 

The internal PSU and IEC mains connector was one of the things that made me choose the Helix Floor over other similar multi-effects. The two guitarists in one of my bands also use floor-mounted multi-effects (one has a POD and other something by Boss) and both are on at least their third PSU because the cable or connector on the low voltage side has become damaged to the point where it has failed or has become so unreliable as to be useless. That's just through normal wear and tear from rehearsals and gigs.

 

That happened to me once, but I've had no problems since I stopped wrapping the lead round the PSU and just wrapped it up in its own little loop, secured with a velcro cable tie.

 

I don't want a mains lead coming onto the stage - I secure a single DC extension lead to the jack-jack lead running from pedalboard to amp and put the wall wart in the socket next to the one I use for the amp. Then again, I'm mounting the multifx (HX Stomp, possibly to be replaced by the MOD Dwarf) on a pedalboard with wireless, volume pedal, power supply, MIDI switchbox, and Squishbox (if needed) so the DC power leads are all in stable positions.

[tauzero]

5 hours ago, Smanth said:

And yes, the power supply cable on my rig is ... iffy!  I'm trying to locate a 90 degree adapter so it has a lower profile and then secure it in place more robustly

 

Do you mean the one for the Dwarf? Just get a 5.5/2.1 right-angle connector off Ebay, cut the old end off and solder it on with the right polarity. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261536704983

[Woodinblack]

34 minutes ago, tauzero said:

 

Do you mean the one for the Dwarf? Just get a 5.5/2.1 right-angle connector off Ebay, cut the old end off and solder it on with the right polarity. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261536704983

 

I wouldn't even do that - I would just get a little jump adapter like this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/195703379563, tie it to the pedalboard and connect the original to it

[Franticsmurf]

I have an MS60b on the board for special effects (by which I mean combinations of filter/modulation/compression) that are song specific. I use a B1Four as a silent rehearsal tool and I occasionally use a Boss ME80 (at one point several years ago it was my main effects unit).

[SamIAm]

2 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

Do the mod devices not come with one now - I watched a few videos on them yesterday and one of them certainly had the adapter in the box from new (although it seemed only one)

The Dwarfs have two USB ports.

One is a DEVICE interface with a USB-B socket. The supplied cable can be used to connect to a device to provide USB-Networking to access the web browser.

The other is a HOST port with a USB-A socket, this is where one can connect a Bluetooth dongle, WiFi dongle or MIDI keyboard (or other stuff I guess). In my setup I've attached a 4 port passive hub and have connected all of the above! lol

S'manth x

[PaulThePlug]

Does a Tuner/Mute count as multi-effects

[Woodinblack]

22 minutes ago, Smanth said:

The Dwarfs have two USB ports.

 

Was specifically refering to the midi ports here

[BigRedX]

Personally I don't like adaptors - it's yet another potential point of failure. And then the problem with all these tiny connectors is that you have to use equally skinny cables with them. There's no way I can get the chunky 2-core and screen cable that I use for my MIDI cables into a 3.5mm jack socket. For all these kinds of connectors I have an additional tested cable for every instance in my spares bag, because I simply don't expect them to be as durable as normal XLR or 1/4 jack leads. Some of the XLR leads I'm currently using were made up almost 30 years ago and are still going strong.

[Woodinblack]

I have spares of pretty well everything anyway, but I haven't had any failures of any leads apart from mains and XLR leads in the last 300 gigs, so until I do they aren't going to cause me any worry.

[BigRedX]

For me it's been completely the opposite. Mains leads and XLRs just go on and on while all the exotic cables - especially any skinny ones with tiny connectors - fail all the time. In the days when I was using a Bass Pod and Floorboard with The Terrortones I was getting through ethernet cables at the rate of one a month, until I was recommended some very expensive ones from Van Damme which were supposedly coilable. I bought 2 which each lasted about a year before failing, and also stopping being coilable just before they did.

[MrDinsdale]

All my broken cables are instrument, xlr and power cables that aren't fixed to a pedalboard. My EBS patch cables and Cioks power cables are by far the most reliable part of my board.

 

I think even if I had a larger HX effects or similar I'd still want it mounted on a board like the Rockboards so everything important could be neatly wired and secured. Then again I couldn't imagine ever putting a board together that didn't include the Jad Freer Capo, even if I had a multi for everything else.

[tauzero]

6 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

For me it's been completely the opposite. Mains leads and XLRs just go on and on while all the exotic cables - especially any skinny ones with tiny connectors - fail all the time. In the days when I was using a Bass Pod and Floorboard with The Terrortones I was getting through ethernet cables at the rate of one a month, until I was recommended some very expensive ones from Van Damme which were supposedly coilable. I bought 2 which each lasted about a year before failing, and also stopping being coilable just before they did.

 

Normal ethernet cable (well, Cat5e cable) isn't intended to be used as a fully flexible cable, as the individual wires are single core conductors which will work harden and fatigue with continual flexing.