Rolling Stones Tuning

[allighatt0r]

Did the rolling stones have some sort of aversion to using a tuner?

I'm trying to learn a couple of songs while playing along to them (namely [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuTiTfbfy7Q"]sympathy for the devil[/url] and [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAqtsNWkpUk"]jumping jack flash[/url]) and the recordings are completely out of tune. (somewhere between standard and half a step down tuning)

What is going on? Was this the cool thing to do back in them days??

[Geddys nose]

I've just learnt Jumping Jack Flash and the hardest thing was finding the key I wonder if they speeded the tape up to get it to sound more tight.

[OldGit]

Yeah they used to do that... If the final thing sounded too slow they speeded the whole thing up.
No Autotune or s/w that kept the pitch then ..
Just retune your bass to the record...

[jbwaddy]

another one could be that they did what van halen used to do eddie took his guitar out and every instument was tuned to what ever it was tuned to. i thought i was doing something wrong when i tried learning stones and vh stuff years ago.

[YouMa]

Keith richards uses loads of different tunings sometimes he plays without an E string.

Edited April 29, 2009 by YouMa

[alexclaber]

No electronic tuners back then either so if there's no piano present they could easily be way off A=440Hz.

Alex

[chris_b]

.... it's only rock and roll.....!

[endorka]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='475477' date='Apr 29 2009, 09:05 PM']No electronic tuners back then either so if there's no piano present they could easily be way off A=440Hz.[/quote]

Tuning fork?

Somehow I can't see it :-)

Jennifer

[OldGit]

[quote name='endorka' post='475611' date='Apr 29 2009, 11:44 PM']Tuning fork?

Somehow I can't see it :-)

Jennifer[/quote]

+1
Recording studio without a piano?

[chris_b]

You would always tune up to the piano, even if you weren't using one so you could add overdubs later. The Stones used a lot of harmonica, brass and piano so would not have been out of tune in the studio.

[Toddy]

Just learned a load of american 80,s tunes and had a similair experiance of being slightly out,,,

Someone just mentioned that the variances in electrical supply used can effect this,, eg the americans use differant voltages etc,,,,, totally believe this is rubbish,,,, but errrrr,,, is it possible?

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Toddy' post='475849' date='Apr 30 2009, 11:37 AM']Just learned a load of american 80,s tunes and had a similair experiance of being slightly out,,,

Someone just mentioned that the variances in electrical supply used can effect this,, eg the americans use differant voltages etc,,,,, totally believe this is rubbish,,,, but errrrr,,, is it possible?[/quote]

Not to the best of my knowledge. The US Europe thing, IIRC, is US classical musicians using 440hz , and Europeans varying this higher - e.g. 446hz.

As regards the Stones (and other bands of the period) being out from 440 - obvious. It was the drugs.

[chris_b]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='475898' date='Apr 30 2009, 12:25 PM']....As regards the Stones (and other bands of the period) being out from 440 - obvious. It was the drugs....[/quote]
It was the Varispeed!

Bands like the Stones have minions to tune their guitars, and those guys were always straight when working!

edit for spelling

Edited April 30, 2009 by chris_b

[maxrossell]

From production experience, I'd say that bands who are using only hand-tunable instruments a lot of the time just tune to each other and don't give a crap if they're in perfect A=440Hz

Personally I don't see a problem with it if it sounds right, unless you're likely to want to add fixed-tuning instrument parts to it later. Damned if I'm gonna retune a whole piano just because the guitarist was a quarter-tone out.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='chris_b' post='475928' date='Apr 30 2009, 12:50 PM']It was the Varyspeed!

Bands like the Stones have minions to tune their guitars, and those guys were always straight when working![/quote]

Straight only by comparison with the Stones Have you ever met any of those old 60's roadies - I offer Lemmy as an example!

You're right, completely different nowadays, of course, but back then, there were few if any 'guitar techs'. Mostly amp humpers and maybe a bloke with a soldering iron (e.g. Roger Mayer).

Hendrix, a notorious out-of-concert-pitcher didn't have a guitar tech, and it showed. In the 60's, Townshend's man, Bob Pridden, was GP driver / roadie / stage asst.

[maxrossell]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='475943' date='Apr 30 2009, 01:02 PM']Hendrix, a notorious out-of-concert-pitcher didn't have a guitar tech, and it showed.[/quote]

You're darn right it did. I saw a video of this one show where his guitar just burst into flames! Shoddy workmanship, that is.

[stingrayfan]

I vote for varispeed. Some of those old Stones recordings sound terrible!

[KevB]

Jumping Jack Flash really threw me when I had to learn it at short notice once. Got the chords, then played along with the recording and....it's neither in B nor really Bb but somewhere between the two, just enough to make me suspect, like others here. it's basically down to a wrong tape speed, whether accidental or deliberate. There are lots of recording by lots of bands from that era that are accurately in tune enough to play along with the recordings without problem. Most Beatles songs I've tried seem to be pretty 'straight' tunings.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='KevB' post='475970' date='Apr 30 2009, 01:29 PM']Jumping Jack Flash really threw me when I had to learn it at short notice once. Got the chords, then played along with the recording and....it's neither in B nor really Bb but somewhere between the two, just enough to make me suspect, like others here. it's basically down to a wrong tape speed, whether accidental or deliberate. There are lots of recording by lots of bands from that era that are accurately in tune enough to play along with the recordings without problem. Most Beatles songs I've tried seem to be pretty 'straight' tunings.[/quote]

Just remembered! He wrote the song on acoustic and played it, solo, into a small battery powered Philips cassette recorder. That recording was then bounced to a track in the studio where everyone played along with it. The early Philips record /playback speed was also a bit unstable, so add that to Keef playing on his own , probably stoned, and wonky pitch issue is resolved.

There's a thread on the open tuning here: [url="http://www.tdpri.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-128340.html"]http://www.tdpri.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-128340.html[/url] which includes a ref to the cassette.

Edited April 30, 2009 by skankdelvar

[dr.funk]

[quote name='Toddy' post='475849' date='Apr 30 2009, 11:37 AM']Someone just mentioned that the variances in electrical supply used can effect this,, eg the americans use differant voltages etc,,,,, totally believe this is rubbish,,,, but errrrr,,, is it possible?[/quote]

I think some Jamaican records have this, quite a bit of wow and flutter (I think thats the vinyl term) due to fluctuating power supply changing the speed of the record!

[risingson]

[quote name='endorka' post='475611' date='Apr 29 2009, 11:44 PM']Tuning fork?

Somehow I can't see it :-)

Jennifer[/quote]


Yeah, like Keith Richards was ever going to use a tuning fork... I should imagine their rehearsals would go something like this; "Mick, should I tune my Telecaster, or take some more cocaine?" Easy answer really

I think it's kind of rock and roll to be out of tune really. Just check out a lot of Bowie stuff. I remember an interview on Radio 2 a while ago with Cliff Richard who was complaining that all the Beatles' stuff was out of tune what a moron...

[OldGit]

[quote name='KevB' post='475970' date='Apr 30 2009, 01:29 PM']Most Beatles songs I've tried seem to be pretty 'straight' tunings.[/quote]


Pretty straight producer

[beerdragon]

I seem to remember getting a set of pipes. a bit like pan pipes to tune up to years ago. not very reliable. someone in the band was always out of tune.