Which wireless?

[thisisswanbon]

As mentioned on a similar thread, I'm having great results with the NUX C-5RC wireless set!  I'm amazed they don't get more mentions.  Small, rechargeable, protective case that is also rechargeable and charges the units when stored, cable tone, no noticeable latency... cracking bit of kit for less than £150. Love mine!

[Woodinblack]

Merged with the "Boss Wireless alternative" thread.

[Al Krow]

I seem to be collecting these, just now! 

 

Getting noise issues on my main gigging bass (Elrick) with both the Lekato and Nux, but not with the Boss WL-20s, but not on my Spector Euro 5LX. So am wondering whether this might be down to a shielding / earthing issue on the Elrick preamp - will investigate.

 

Update June 2023: the issue with the Elrick was the barrel jack connection which has been replaced. All fine now

 

Edited June 25, 2023 by Al Krow

[ossyrocks]

I've been following this thread. I have nothing of importance to add though, you guys have it all covered. I went into Promenade Music last week to discuss wireless options and see what they had. I wanted something simple, and there were a number of cheaper alternatives, but I was recommended the Boss WL-20's for what I do. That's what I now have. I've done two rehearsals (two different bands) and one gig so far with them, and another gig today. Going wireless has been a liberating experience! I couldn't go back now. Our sax player is wireless, so I've made sure she's up and running before pairing mine, and no issues so far. 

 

Rob

Edited May 1, 2023 by ossyrocks

[tauzero]

On 27/04/2023 at 17:00, Mudpup said:

The battery only lasts for an hour? That won't work for most people will it?

 

I can get over 6 hours  out of 2 rechargeable AA batteries in my Sony unit. 

 

My Lekato bugs will do about five hours.

[redbandit599]

I've had both the Shure and Smoothhound, great when setting up and sound checking.... but numerous drop outs on both as soon as the pub filled with people ( and phones.)

My guitarist sometimes gets this on his Boss unit too.

I sold both and went cheap and 5.8ghz with a Harley Benton version that has a built in tuner on the receiver station. Not a single drop out since.

[Al Krow]

On 13/05/2023 at 17:12, redbandit599 said:

I've had both the Shure and Smoothhound, great when setting up and sound checking.... but numerous drop outs on both as soon as the pub filled with people ( and phones.)

My guitarist sometimes gets this on his Boss unit too.

I sold both and went cheap and 5.8ghz with a Harley Benton version that has a built in tuner on the receiver station. Not a single drop out since.

Interesting / helpful feedback - which Shure model did you have? 

[redbandit599]

I had the Shure GLXD - it was a lovely well made unit. It was fine on the occasional 'big stage' that I used it on, but would cut out in busy pubs. I did wonder if it was our own wifi and other wirelesses that caused it, or even my wireless dmx controls for the lights. But I could go to a good 20 metres away during sound check in some pubs with no issue (with all the above on) and it was great, as soon as the pub filled I'd frequently get issues.

Had the same with the Smoothound, which was also a great little unit (and Chris is a top bloke.) I did find that the aerials on the receiver station got in the way on a pedal board though if you 'get about a bit.'

I do still use the little strap mounted holder that I got to go with my Smoothound for the dongle, I just prefer it tucked up out of the way than sticking out of the bass.

Personally, I wouldn't touch 2.4 again.

I better not have put the kiss of death on it now! 😁

Edited May 15, 2023 by redbandit599

[police squad]

Just before lock down 1 I decided to buy a wireless mic system. After much research I was none the wiser, digital, analogue? Shure? Sennheiser. After some discussion with EBS_freak I plumped for the Sennheiser EW something or other. It has been brilliant so far.

 

I'm about to start rehearsals for an Americana touring band and am thinking about going wireless for this too. From what I've read I think it'll be te Shure system that Walshy recommends.

Back in the day, I used a Samson Stage II wireless that was racked mounted into my Marshall Jubilee 300 head. I even managed to solder in a four way plug to the marshall power input, which left the receiver wired in and ready all the time. I literally took my bass out of its case, put the strap on with the transmitter pack already attached and was ready to go.

It's this approach I would like to take here I think, the Shure looks rackable and it could be all wired in ready.

Spare (backup) leads would be ready in case of failure, as would a spare amp

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

16 hours ago, redbandit599 said:

I had the Shure GLXD - it was a lovely well made unit. It was fine on the occasional 'big stage' that I used it on, but would cut out in busy pubs. I did wonder if it was our own wifi and other wirelesses that caused it, or even my wireless dmx controls for the lights. But I could go to a good 20 metres away during sound check in some pubs with no issue (with all the above on) and it was great, as soon as the pub filled I'd frequently get issues.

The major issue I had with my previous wireless set up was in a couple of theatres where they operated wireless lighting systems. Usually mid sound check when the lighting crew started turning lights on and off I would experience the odd drop out. Since I’ve owned the Shure GLXD, I’ve had no issues at all at those venues or even in busy pubs.

[redbandit599]

43 minutes ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

The major issue I had with my previous wireless set up was in a couple of theatres where they operated wireless lighting systems. Usually mid sound check when the lighting crew started turning lights on and off I would experience the odd drop out. Since I’ve owned the Shure GLXD, I’ve had no issues at all at those venues or even in busy pubs.

Yes, I did wonder about the wireless DMX dongles, so I set up with cables instead one night and still got drop outs.  Mine may well be an isolated case as the Shure has a great rep. 

 

[Japhet]

I bought a cheap Lekato set off Ebay for around £30 for home practice. Worked really well so tried gigging with them. Have done probably 20 gigs with them now and never missed a beat.

[oldslapper]

This is an interesting thread as I’ve been toying with wireless for a series of gigs with a couple of bands over the next 6 months or so. Mostly uk theatres but also Northern Europe. 
I don’t use pedals and use active Stingray and passive Ps.

None of the rest of the band use wireless except IEM for bvs in one band. 
 

I’ve heard the argument for spending out for the top range kit, and also some of you have been happy with £50 jobs. 
 

I’ll be playing maximum 12 shows and likely to drop out in the new year to concentrate on my duo writing project, which rarely gigs. So not sure I can justify top dollar as I don’t gig like many of you do here. 
 

Im wondering about Smooth Hound or Boss? Thoughts? 

[Lozz196]

I used the Boss WL20 in Europe, no issues. 

[ossyrocks]

39 minutes ago, oldslapper said:

This is an interesting thread as I’ve been toying with wireless for a series of gigs with a couple of bands over the next 6 months or so. Mostly uk theatres but also Northern Europe. 
I don’t use pedals and use active Stingray and passive Ps.

None of the rest of the band use wireless except IEM for bvs in one band. 
 

I’ve heard the argument for spending out for the top range kit, and also some of you have been happy with £50 jobs. 
 

I’ll be playing maximum 12 shows and likely to drop out in the new year to concentrate on my duo writing project, which rarely gigs. So not sure I can justify top dollar as I don’t gig like many of you do here. 
 

Im wondering about Smooth Hound or Boss? Thoughts? 

 

I've only recently got the Boss WL-20, but I've had no issues on the three gigs I've used them on so far, with wireless Sax and Trumpet players as well. Rehearsals have been fine too. They are really simple to use, slip into the pocket of my gig bag, easy to charge, I don't know why I waited all this time!

[oldslapper]

The only concern I have about the WL20 is that reviews state that they’re suited for passive pickups, not active and I swap between active and passive. Do you guys use both/either? 
Thanks.

John 

[ossyrocks]

55 minutes ago, oldslapper said:

The only concern I have about the WL20 is that reviews state that they’re suited for passive pickups, not active and I swap between active and passive. Do you guys use both/either? 
Thanks.

John 

Ahh. No, just passive, P basses mostly, occasionally a Jazz.

[warwickhunt]

Can anyone give me some feedback / insight into my recent experiences.  

 

Guitarist and I (band #1) have been using Line 6 G50 systems for at least 7 year, with no issues of drop out etc; he also uses an X-Vive IEM system (I don't but I am trialling wired IEMs).  About 12 - 18 months ago we started using a Soundcraft Ui16 desk in band #1 and I started experiencing occasional interference/drop out, it was initially so infrequent I barely noticed and neither I nor the guitarist mentioned it to each other. 

 

We formed a new band together (band #2) along with another guitarist about 6 months ago and that guitarist also uses an IEM X-Vive but no guitar wireless system.  However, when band #2 started gigging, I had signal loss every gig and coincidently the guitarist in band #1 had gone to a different system for his guitar (one of the Harley Benton/Thomann ones)!  I realise we have more systems in the band but it is still only 4 and we select different channels etc, some are 2.ghz and some 5ghz but the desk has a router which I think 'might' be part of the issue.  Added to which, one of the gigs was crazy for drop out of my wireless and at the end of the set (I swapped to a lead after 2 songs) I checked my phone for available devices/routers/wireless... there were 22 available!  I was within 2-3m of my receiver when doing this gig, so I assumed signal strength would be strong and counter any others.  I realise I don't need any radio equipment if I'm within metres of my gear but I'm also trialling IEM with a wired connection and 2 cables going to to units on my belt or strap is a chew especially when putting on/taking off my bass and IEM AND going out front to check the band mix.

 

Are any of my/our issues caused/compounded by the masses of devices using the same frequencies both in the band and surrounding environment?  Is there an answer?  

[EBS_freak]

19 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

Are any of my/our issues caused/compounded by the masses of devices using the same frequencies both in the band and surrounding environment?  Is there an answer?  

Yes. Don't use 2.4ghz. It's oversubscribed and only has 3 truly intermodulation free frequencies. Totally uncoordinated chaos.

[warwickhunt]

4 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Yes. Don't use 2.4ghz. It's oversubscribed and only has 3 truly intermodulation free frequencies. Totally uncoordinated chaos.

 

Yes, that was my thinking.    I assume the proximity of the desk router isn't helping (5-10m away)?  

 

I'm about to trial a cheapie 5.ghz system and if the drop out ceases/eases, I'll look at an upgrade.  I've read/reread your excellent IEM bible so many times and the wired IEM is starting to work for me BUT I need to go wireless at some point but don't want to regress and induce more issues.  Time will tell.    

 

[Jack]

It's just so variable. I've been in a hard rock band with 3x guitar/bass wireless units and a wireless mic, plus the router and had totally trouble free gigs so it's not like we have internal conflicts, but if you go into a busy RF environment then something like one of the venue wifi routers can cause a domino effect. There are plenty of things that you do to mitigate this though, off the top of my head

 

- Install a really powerful router to work for the mixer, I'm a bit of a pc nerd and I can thoroughly recommend Mikrotik for this.

- Move some things into 5.8Ghz if you can, although this is not the silver bullet that it's often made out to be or once might have been.

- Have self scanning and adjusting stuff, the Shure GLX stuff is great for this because if it detects that a channel is busy it just moves on to the next one. I know this can cause a merry go round of changes, but it's never happened to anyone I know.

- If you think it's going to be a busy wifi environment then plan ahead. If we do a function in a hotel or an office I'll take a laptop and ethernet cable for the mixer just in case. I don't for bars.

- Learn a little about how digital wireless works. Did you know that most wifi router anntenna actually produce a doughnut shape with very little power and coverage going above and below? Also, the squishy human body (especially mine!) is a perfect absorber for wifi (just like foam soundproofing in studios) and so if, for instance, you have a wireless unit in your back pocket and a receiver in front of you on the floor, your own backside might be blocking it enough that just moving to a holster on the strap can fix everything.

- Above all else, sometimes you could fix something, but you won't have the time or ability to troubleshoot in a busy gig. Make sure you've packed a guitar lead just in case! I've had two wireless failures in 10 years and one of those was actually just a loose power connection, so that's only one time ever where my wireless bass has dropped out a few times and forced me on to a lead. But when it happened I was pleased to have a cable.

 

Edited May 18, 2023 by Jack

[warwickhunt]

5 minutes ago, Jack said:

It's just so variable. I've been in a hard rock band with 3x guitar/bass wireless units and a wireless mic, plus the router and had totally trouble free gigs so it's not like we have internal conflicts, but if you go into a busy RF environment then something like one of the venue wifi routers can cause a domino effect. There are plenty of things that you do to mitigate this though, off the top of my head

 

- Install a really powerful router to work for the mixer, I'm a bit of a pc nerd and I can thoroughly recommend Mikrotik for this.

- Move some things into 5.8Ghz if you can

- Have self scanning and adjusting stuff, the Shure GLX stuff is great for this because if it detects that a channel is busy it just moves on to the next one. I know this can cause a merry go round of changes, but it's never happened to anyone I know.

- If you think it's going to be a busy wifi environment then plan ahead. If we do a function in a hotel or an office I'll take a laptop and ethernet cable for the mixer just in case. I don't for bars.

- Learn a little about how digital wireless works. Did you know that most wifi router anntenna actually produce a doughnut shape with very little power and coverage going above and below? Also, the squishy human body (especially mine!) is a perfect absorber for wifi (just like foam soundproofing in studios) and so if, for instance, you have a wireless unit in your back pocket and a receiver in front of you on the floor, your own backside might be blocking it enough that just moving to a holster on the strap can fix everything.

- Above all else, sometimes you could fix something, but you won't have the time or ability to troubleshoot in a busy gig. Make sure you've packed a guitar lead just in case! I've had two wireless failures in 10 years and one of those was actually just a loose power connection, so that's only one time ever where my wireless bass has dropped out a few times and forced me on to a lead. But when it happened I was pleased to have a cable.

 

 

All 'sound' advice!    

 

I think I'm identifying that the worst occurrences are WMC gigs where there are devices using 2.4ghz all over the place inc tills/card readers etc or areas that are built up with routers all over... would literally hundreds of mobile phone/laptop users also affect it?  

 

My transmitter is on the back of my strap or belt with my back to the receiver so I'm OK there.  Ever since I bought my first bit of radio gear (Nady possibly 30+ years ago), I've made a habit of connecting my receiver to my amp with a lead/cable that is long enough that I can literally decouple from the receiver and plug straight in my bass... with a spare cable coiled on top of my amp 'just in case' the lead goes duff!    

 

The cheapie Lekato 5.ghz system will arrive today and I'll try it with 3 gigs this weekend.  If that works I'll look at an upgrade (Sennheiser or Shure I'd imagine) but I'll also be looking with one eye toward what I use for IEM.  

[EBS_freak]

21 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

 

Yes, that was my thinking.    I assume the proximity of the desk router isn't helping (5-10m away)?  

 

I'm about to trial a cheapie 5.ghz system and if the drop out ceases/eases, I'll look at an upgrade.  I've read/reread your excellent IEM bible so many times and the wired IEM is starting to work for me BUT I need to go wireless at some point but don't want to regress and induce more issues.  Time will tell.    

 

Wireless defo brings with it extra challenges. Realistically, for reliable wireless, you want to be investing in Channel 38 kit... however, that comes at a much greater cost than the consumer 2.4 stuff. Co-ordinating wireless at a professional level, is not just turning gear on and scanning. Every unit is given a specifically calculated frequency, that works with all the ambient rf, without clashing. I don't think vendors really sell that mixing brands and models all adds to the chaos.

[Chienmortbb]

8 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

Wireless defo brings with it extra challenges. Realistically, for reliable wireless, you want to be investing in Channel 38 kit... however, that comes at a much greater cost than the consumer 2.4 stuff. Co-ordinating wireless at a professional level, is not just turning gear on and scanning. Every unit is given a specifically calculated frequency, that works with all the ambient rf, without clashing. I don't think vendors really sell that mixing brands and models all adds to the chaos.

A channel 38 licence does cost each year, £75 from memory, but it is worth it. I also agree that mixing vendor's is bad. They use different RF bandwidths and channel centre frequencies, and that can cause interference from overlapping channels.

 

In saying that, I have used the Harley Benton 5.8GHz system recently, and it seems good as long as you can live with the delay (latency).

 

 

[warwickhunt]

5 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

A channel 38 licence does cost each year, £75 from memory, but it is worth it. I also agree that mixing vendor's is bad. They use different RF bandwidths and channel centre frequencies, and that can cause interference from overlapping channels.

 

In saying that, I have used the Harley Benton 5.8GHz system recently, and it seems good as long as you can live with the delay (latency).

 

 

 

I bought the Lekato (Amazon £48) with 6ms latency and at first comparison switching with a lead it is very good and the audio quality is as near identical as I can tell; oddly the Line 6 G50 has the option to tune it as if you are getting signal loss from using differing length leads, which I found very odd.