Maple Fretboard vs Pau Ferro

[Waddo Soqable]

3 minutes ago, Geek99 said:

Actually I think it depends what day of the week it was made, and if it rained on the preceding Tuesday. And older wood is better, as long as it was blessed by fairies just before it was felled and better yet if they then made a tearful nighttime procession to visit the tree in the wood yard to bid it farewell and safe laquering. Then the tone will be magical 

 

 

 

 

The little date stamp on the heel of the neck or wherever will surely assign the bass with an astrological "star" sign..... Just sayin...... 

[Beedster]

14 minutes ago, ped said:

Even if nothing else then they certainly look different!

Absolutely, and feel different, and both are important for many players and builders 👍

[Beedster]

14 minutes ago, ped said:

Even if nothing else then they certainly look different!

Absolutely, and feel different, and both are important for many players and builders 👍

[xgsjx]

24 minutes ago, ped said:

I think it does, and if someone who has hand made thousands of basses says it does then he’s probably the best person to judge as I’m sure he’s swapped necks on basses many times and heard the result. 
 

Even if nothing else then they certainly look different!

There’s loads of cab builders that will tell you that a 4x10 on top of a 1x15 as being the best bass rig. Doesn’t make them right, but it sells to the masses.  Financial profits is the main goal for most businesses. Ask 5 different builders what’s important & get ready for 5 different responses. 
What a premium bass does give you is the higher end electronics as well as an instrument that feels good to play & looks good too.

[xgsjx]

I had to say that twice. 🤣

Edited May 7, 2023 by xgsjx

[LukeFRC]

Utterly serious and sensible test here 

 

[crazycloud]

On 06/05/2023 at 03:17, fleabag said:

 

 

That's a good point, since wood is so organic, even bodies/necks from the same tree will have small differences.

So? Show that 'you' can hear a difference between the two instruments directly recorded, and then in a mix. Until 'you' can reliably and consistently, then the difference is irrelevant when you can't see which is being played or was recorded.

[ped]

11 minutes ago, xgsjx said:

There’s loads of cab builders that will tell you that a 4x10 on top of a 1x15 as being the best bass rig. Doesn’t make them right, but it sells to the masses.  Financial profits is the main goal for most businesses. Ask 5 different builders what’s important & get ready for 5 different responses. 
What a premium bass does give you is the higher end electronics as well as an instrument that feels good to play & looks good too.

I don’t think the top flight luthiers need to do that. I just don’t think it’s necessary for them. Look at Ken Smith. If you ask him to do something else he’ll tell you to F off. They have reputations which speak for themselves so when someone like Roger says he’s experienced a clear difference in the thousands of basses he’s made then that trumps anything else for me. 

[BassAdder60]

Does Yamaha do something to age their high end guitars and basses to improve resonance etc ?

 

Any way  I’m convinced it makes little to no difference on my two basses so something else is more likely such as the pickup not being identical even though they are similar in age Player Series set as close to the same etc 

 

Interesting topic !!

Edited May 7, 2023 by BassAdder60

[xgsjx]

13 minutes ago, ped said:

I don’t think the top flight luthiers need to do that. I just don’t think it’s necessary for them. Look at Ken Smith. If you ask him to do something else he’ll tell you to F off. They have reputations which speak for themselves so when someone like Roger says he’s experienced a clear difference in the thousands of basses he’s made then that trumps anything else for me. 

What they are doing though is protecting that reputation. If they suddenly turned around & said that wood makes no difference after years of telling people it did, then they’ll be going against what’s been marketed to the masses by just about every other builder & fear that it could damage their reputation.

Acoustically, there will most likely be differences, but the pickups on a lekky bass don’t pick up any of the acoustic tones from the wood. 
On an acoustic instrument, then yes, the body will make a big difference, as it’s basically the pick-up & amp. 

[Dan Dare]

10 hours ago, xgsjx said:

the pickups on a lekky bass don’t pick up any of the acoustic tones from the wood. 
On an acoustic instrument, then yes, the body will make a big difference, as it’s basically the pick-up & amp. 

 

Spot on. Pickups are not microphones. Microphones detect vibration/movement of air molecules and convert that into a minute electrical signal. Magnetic pickups detect movement of a string within a magnetic field and convert that into a minute electrical signal. In both cases, those minute electrical signals are amplified by the, er, amplifier. The difference is that the acoustic tones are not sensed or detected ("heard", if you like) by a pickup. Try shouting at your magnetic bass pickup and see what comes out of the speakers. Unless it has gone microphonic, the answer will be nowt.

Edited May 7, 2023 by Dan Dare

[Beedster]

57 minutes ago, xgsjx said:

What they are doing though is protecting that reputation. If they suddenly turned around & said that wood makes no difference after years of telling people it did, then they’ll be going against what’s been marketed to the masses by just about every other builder & fear that it could damage their reputation.

Acoustically, there will most likely be differences, but the pickups on a lekky bass don’t pick up any of the acoustic tones from the wood. 
On an acoustic instrument, then yes, the body will make a big difference, as it’s basically the pick-up & amp. 

 

This

 

46 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

 

Spot on. Pickups are not microphones. Microphones detect vibration/movement of air molecules and convert that into a minute electrical signal. Magnetic pickups detect movement of a string within a magnetic field and convert that into a minute electrical signal. In both cases, those minute electrical signals are amplified by the, er, amplifier. The difference is that the acoustic tones are not sensed or detected ("heard", if you like) by a pickup. Try shouting at your magnetic bass pickup and see what comes out of the speakers. Unless it has gone microphonic, the answer will nowt.

 

And this  

[ped]

But the wood affects the way the string vibrates, it’s attack and sonic signature, which the pickups do pick up. 

[ped]

1 hour ago, xgsjx said:

What they are doing though is protecting that reputation. If they suddenly turned around & said that wood makes no difference after years of telling people it did, then they’ll be going against what’s been marketed to the masses by just about every other builder & fear that it could damage their reputation.

Acoustically, there will most likely be differences, but the pickups on a lekky bass don’t pick up any of the acoustic tones from the wood. 
On an acoustic instrument, then yes, the body will make a big difference, as it’s basically the pick-up & amp. 

I dunno, I still think that’s a negative view of these guys experiences. We can’t compare having played hundreds of probably totally different basses or having watched someone pluck strings attached to a jig on YouTube to someone with years of hand making instruments for some of the best known players in the world. But everyone is entitled to their opinion and that’s why some prefer brand A to brand B which is all good. 
 

FWIW I think pickup LOCATION is the biggest factor, after that it’s strings, then neck construction, body wood and fingerboard. They all effect the sound but in different ways, the same way you can’t get flats to sound like rounds, you can’t get a MM sound from a Jazz, each change does something the other things can’t, and ultimately every instrument is a sum of all these nuances. 

[bubinga5]

4 hours ago, Beedster said:

 

Mmm, you don’t think that Sadowsky, as someone who charges premium prices for his products in part on the basis of building using certain woods, might have a horse in this particular race? 

Too many factors to quanitfy. Yes body wood makes a small difference. But neck wood more so. Just my op. Hes well know for saying the neck wood/construction makes a bigger difference than body wood.. graphite rods in the necks makes a big difference. Its a sum of the parts. The thing is with this discussion is there are so many factors that go into making an electric bass that make a difference in tone. But neck costruction is the longest part of the instrument that the instruments strings has to vibrate against. If its a lacquered necked jazz bass which are usually maple it will sound brighter. Its because the neck cant absorb the vibration like a rosewood necked bass can. 

[Lozz196]

My only thoughts are that I have several Precisions and that all the ones with maple fretboards sound brighter than their rosewood colleagues. They’re all strung with the same strings, and most of them are the same range (2013-16) so have same dimensions, hardware, pickups, electrics. Same goes for my two Jazzes, maple being toppier.
 

Now would I be able to differentiate this in a mix stating maple or rosewood, no, not a chance. But play me a tape of me playing one type then another and I’d be able to tell which one was which.
 

Doubt I’d be able to do it with another players basses.
 

 

[LukeFRC]

And in 2023 the bass players discussed tonewood again…

 

Btw if we are going to model how a bass works to discount the fretboard wood I think it’s best to think of it as the restraining structure for the spring of the string - so between the neck, the fretboard, and the truss rod it’s going to have its own stiffness and damping properties.
Does the species need of wood of the fretboard make a difference? I dunno, but it’s more involved than a thin decorative strip of wood 

[fleabag]

On 05/05/2023 at 18:17, fleabag said:

 

 

 

 

Ooops.

My wood has shrunk

Edited May 7, 2023 by fleabag

[BigRedX]

But you can equally pick the opinions of a different luthier who says that it isn't really important. For instance Carl Thompson says that it is impossible to tell what a bass will sound like until he has finished building it. Both Jens Ritter and Bas Extravaganza have made basses out of plywood. The Ritter bass has probably had each body layer specially selected, whilst the Bas Extravaganza one was made from a couple of sheets sourced from his local DYI warehouse. Both apparently sound great.

 

As I have said many times the problem with "tone woods" for solid electric instruments is two-fold:

 

1. Although it makes a difference, that difference is impossible to properly quantify because every single piece of wood is different no-one has done any serious scientific-based testing (mostly because it's near-on impossible to do.

 

2. Although it makes a difference, that difference is minuscule in terms of all the other factors that go to make up a solid electric instrument, and negligible once the rest of the band start playing.

[Paolo85]

Never had two identical basses except for maple/rosewood. I have however obsessively swapped pickups for a period among 3 P basses all with different body material. Never gone the full "randomised trial" approach, with same pickup, same string, all broken in exactly the same. I have not done it because what I heard was enough to convince me that, if there are differences, they are so small that I don't care. Especially as differences from changing pickups and strings are huuuuge. That experience was enough to spare me the neck wood rabbit hole. So far I don't care. But who knows what boredom and obsessive personality can lead to in the future.. 

 

EDIT: I find that body wood does make however a difference acoustically, and in how the vibration moves from the bass to the belly. Which makes a difference even to someone like me when playing with headphones/amp at low volumes at home

Edited May 7, 2023 by Paolo85

[BigRedX]

3 minutes ago, Paolo85 said:

Never had two identical basses except for maple/rosewood.

 

No-one in the entire history of bass guitars ever has. Every piece of wood is different.

[ped]

13 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

 

No-one in the entire history of bass guitars ever has. Every piece of wood is different.

So the wood does make a difference 🫣

[Waddo Soqable]

16 minutes ago, ped said:

So the wood does make a difference 🫣

Sounds like it did for @fleabag...

 

[xgsjx]

5 hours ago, ped said:

I dunno, I still think that’s a negative view of these guys experiences. We can’t compare having played hundreds of probably totally different basses or having watched someone pluck strings attached to a jig on YouTube to someone with years of hand making instruments for some of the best known players in the world. But everyone is entitled to their opinion and that’s why some prefer brand A to brand B which is all good. 
 

FWIW I think pickup LOCATION is the biggest factor, after that it’s strings, then neck construction, body wood and fingerboard. They all effect the sound but in different ways, the same way you can’t get flats to sound like rounds, you can’t get a MM sound from a Jazz, each change does something the other things can’t, and ultimately every instrument is a sum of all these nuances. 

I’m not really trying to be negative about these guys, as they do build fantastic instruments. 
I’m also not going on just one video, but posted that one as it shows how little an effect wood has. I did spend months looking into what effect wood has to a non acoustic instrument. 
I’m not saying wood has no effect, just not on tone. It makes a big difference as to how it feels in the hands of the player, the resonance from the wood vibrating through to the player, the comfort & the visual appeal. 
 

I believe the main influences in the tone in order are: the player & chosen method (fingers, pick, etc), the pick-up itself, the position of the pick-up, the strings, the electronics, the bridge & nut (though they’re probably as debatable as the wood), then the wood. 
I think if you took a Jazz bass & put a MM pick-up in the same position that it is on a MM, then swapped the electrics for the same MM ones, it would most likely sound like a MM.  Though it’d be easier just to buy a MM. 🤣

I changed the pickups in my Ibby for a PJ set of Aguilar AG4 & an OBP2 pre. It now sounds like a completely different instrument, but has the lovely worn in feel that I’m used to. 

[xgsjx]

5 hours ago, bubinga5 said:

Too many factors to quanitfy. Yes body wood makes a small difference. But neck wood more so. Just my op. Hes well know for saying the neck wood/construction makes a bigger difference than body wood.. graphite rods in the necks makes a big difference. Its a sum of the parts. The thing is with this discussion is there are so many factors that go into making an electric bass that make a difference in tone. But neck costruction is the longest part of the instrument that the instruments strings has to vibrate against. If its a lacquered necked jazz bass which are usually maple it will sound brighter. Its because the neck cant absorb the vibration like a rosewood necked bass can. 

I think graphite rods in the neck may make a huge difference to the reliability of it staying in tune & helping neck relief (especially for Pro touring musicians), but I doubt it has any bearing on tone. 
Pickups don’t pick up what the wood is doing, just the vibration from the string.