Maple Fretboard vs Pau Ferro

[ped]

11 minutes ago, xgsjx said:

Pickups don’t pick up what the wood is doing, just the vibration from the string. 

And the way the string vibrates is affected by the wood. Graphite necked basses for example have a very particular sound. There’s no escaping the fact that the strings are attached to a piece of wood at each end. But I get your pic that it’s insignificant compared to other things. I’m sticking to my point that it affects the sound in a way which pickup location can’t, and vice versa. 

[TheGreek]

So which is best for metal???

 

 

 

Duck & run...

[Waddo Soqable]

1 minute ago, TheGreek said:

So which is best for metal???

 

 

 

Duck & run...

Something by James Trussart? 

[ezbass]

This argument seems to raise its head about once a month in one form or another. There are those who subscribe to the wood makes a huge difference and those who believe that it either doesn’t or that it is so minimal in the grand scheme of things, as to be inconsequential. No one ever moves from their entrenched positions, as far as I can see. With that in mind, I’m afraid that this is a case of, move along, nothing new to see here.

[Beedster]

4 minutes ago, ped said:

And the way the string vibrates is affected by the wood. Graphite necked basses for example have a very particular sound. There’s no escaping the fact that the strings are attached to a piece of wood at each end. But I get your pic that it’s insignificant compared to other things. I’m sticking to my point that it affects the sound in a way which pickup location can’t, and vice versa. 

It affects tone a tiny but yes, but as so many have said, in an entirely unpredictable way. Even if the builder has access to extremely consistent timber, in which case variation within a batch is reduced, there will be variations between batches. You wouldn’t expect the same variation within, for example, one brand/model of PUP, bridge, even strings. The idea that one type of wood sounds consistently different to another type of wood when used as the board on a fretted electric bass is not supported by any hard evidence, all points are based on personal experience and opinion, no matter how well known and apparently qualified the source 👍

 

 

[ped]

Just now, Beedster said:

It affects tone a tiny but yes, but as so many have said, in an entirely unpredictable way. Even if the builder has access to extremely consistent timber, in which case variation within a batch is reduced, there will be variations between batches. You wouldn’t expect the same variation within, for example, one brand/model of PUP, bridge, even strings. The idea that one type of wood sounds consistently different to another type of wood when used as the board on a fretted electric bass is not supported by any hard evidence, all points are based on personal experience and opinion, no matter how well known and apparently qualified the source 👍

 

 

Some have it down to quite an art though when they can select the timber themselves. I remember Christian Celinder saying about using danish ash from only certain trees and only using certain pieces so the number of basses produced was tiny but they were super consistent, but expensive as a result. That kind of knowledge comes with experience I guess. Whilst other builders are quite happy to use nice prices of wood and going with a certain pickup location will give a sound in the ballpark of A or B depending on the recipe. Both approaches are fine, and I’d never have a custom build for me because I don’t have the ability or necessarily trust a builder to get it exact for me - I’d rather they the finished item in the round and see if it works as a whole. 

[Paul S]

29 minutes ago, ped said:

And the way the string vibrates is affected by the wood. Graphite necked basses for example have a very particular sound. There’s no escaping the fact that the strings are attached to a piece of wood at each end. But I get your pic that it’s insignificant compared to other things. I’m sticking to my point that it affects the sound in a way which pickup location can’t, and vice versa. 

 

I had a Hondo Alien for a while - rosewood board over an aluminium neck.  That didn't sound like anything else I had ever played, quite a brittle tone.  

[Ralf1e]

8 hours ago, ped said:

But the wood affects the way the string vibrates, it’s attack and sonic signature, which the pickups do pick up. 

This. Saying the timber makes no difference is like saying the ADSR on a synth makes no difference. Pluck two basses the same and one will die a death in seconds while the other piece of timber will ring out and sustain for ages.

Get yer eyes on YouTube and view how Lee Sklar selected the timber for the most recorded bass on the world.

It was the most resonant.

[ped]

2 hours ago, xgsjx said:

I’m not really trying to be negative about these guys, as they do build fantastic instruments. 
I’m also not going on just one video, but posted that one as it shows how little an effect wood has. I did spend months looking into what effect wood has to a non acoustic instrument. 
I’m not saying wood has no effect, just not on tone. It makes a big difference as to how it feels in the hands of the player, the resonance from the wood vibrating through to the player, the comfort & the visual appeal. 
 

I believe the main influences in the tone in order are: the player & chosen method (fingers, pick, etc), the pick-up itself, the position of the pick-up, the strings, the electronics, the bridge & nut (though they’re probably as debatable as the wood), then the wood. 
I think if you took a Jazz bass & put a MM pick-up in the same position that it is on a MM, then swapped the electrics for the same MM ones, it would most likely sound like a MM.  Though it’d be easier just to buy a MM. 🤣

I changed the pickups in my Ibby for a PJ set of Aguilar AG4 & an OBP2 pre. It now sounds like a completely different instrument, but has the lovely worn in feel that I’m used to. 

sorry I didn’t mean to sound dismissive like ‘you’ve watched ONE YouTube video’ 🫢

[Ralf1e]

1 hour ago, TheGreek said:

So which is best for metal???

 

 

 

Duck & run...

Rusty old Ford. But it must be hand torn from a vintage early banana skin capri or it will sound less lively than a later one which isnt all rust and filler.

[xgsjx]

34 minutes ago, ped said:

sorry I didn’t mean to sound dismissive like ‘you’ve watched ONE YouTube video’ 🫢

I never took it as dismissive at all, so no sorry needed, but thanks. 🙂

[xgsjx]

53 minutes ago, Ralf1e said:

This. Saying the timber makes no difference is like saying the ADSR on a synth makes no difference. Pluck two basses the same and one will die a death in seconds while the other piece of timber will ring out and sustain for ages.

Get yer eyes on YouTube and view how Lee Sklar selected the timber for the most recorded bass on the world.

It was the most resonant.

I’ll go & have a look at that, but I disagree with your synth analogy. 

[Dan Dare]

8 hours ago, bubinga5 said:

neck costruction is the longest part of the instrument that the instruments strings has to vibrate against

 

The strings do not "vibrate against" the neck, unless it's a fretless with a low action, which will tend to give you that "mwah" sound as the string contacts the board intermittently along its length as it vibrates.

 

The string vibrates in free space and the only two points of contact with the instrument are the fret at which it's fretted and the bridge saddle. Think about it.

[LukeFRC]

1 hour ago, Dan Dare said:

 

The strings do not "vibrate against" the neck, unless it's a fretless with a low action, which will tend to give you that "mwah" sound as the string contacts the board intermittently along its length as it vibrates.

 

The string vibrates in free space and the only two points of contact with the instrument are the fret at which it's fretted and the bridge saddle. Think about it.

…And those two points are connected via another part of the instrument which has its its own stiffness and damping properties…. Think about it. 

[LukeFRC]

And btw I am most convinced that tone woods make so little difference compared to almost everything else - and even less by the time the rest of the band starts up…

 

but purely mechanically wood must make some difference 

[xgsjx]

33 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

…And those two points are connected via another part of the instrument which has its its own stiffness and damping properties…. Think about it. 

In case you missed it. 

 

[crazycloud]

On 07/05/2023 at 17:41, xgsjx said:

If you find that one in the shop that has the pickup in the sweet spot

Which is where exactly?

[Woodinblack]

56 minutes ago, crazycloud said:

Which is where exactly?

 

Just off the M3 I think

[xgsjx]

1 hour ago, crazycloud said:

Which is where exactly?

Wherever your ears find pleasing. 😎

[Twincam]

I have a hard time believing in how the fretboard wood can change a tone.

But having read things, others experiences, listened to examples and my own experiences I do believe it does, because I can hear it.

 

I have very sensitive hearing. Even though we are talking small or tiny changes. 

I can hear differences in instrument cables of the same length. 

 

And not to start anything, but I've heard many times how taking a neck on and off, can sometimes make a tonal change, although normally some kind of shim is involved. And screw torque will of changed. So there a few mechanical changes going on. 

 

Biggest changes of tone to me is.

Person playing.

Strings.

Pickup location. 

Pickup type.

Pickup height. 

Bridge, if previous one was very poor.

Neck construction. 

Body construction.

Bridge, if previous one had no issues. 

 

Too add I've not heard a difference in nut type. But a zero fret does make a difference. 

 

Psychology we know certain things like textures, colour, shades can affect us in various ways. It's maybe possible that even a difference in a guitars colour could effect our playing and therefore tone. 

 

I prefer maple necks as I can see my hand position and markers quicker. And even when not looking at the board I just seem to play better. Which admittedly with my level of playing isn't difficult. 

 

 

 

Edited May 8, 2023 by Twincam

[iconic]

I think the 'wood' question simply boils down to just how 'stiff' the nut to the bridge is.....which is why some wood combos can be perceived as darker, more flex between the two points, brighter being less. 

 

PS Maple wins on looks though. 😉

[uncle psychosis]

On 07/05/2023 at 14:23, BigRedX said:

But you can equally pick the opinions of a different luthier who says that it isn't really important. For instance Carl Thompson says that it is impossible to tell what a bass will sound like until he has finished building it. Both Jens Ritter and Bas Extravaganza have made basses out of plywood. The Ritter bass has probably had each body layer specially selected, whilst the Bas Extravaganza one was made from a couple of sheets sourced from his local DYI warehouse. Both apparently sound great.

 

As I have said many times the problem with "tone woods" for solid electric instruments is two-fold:

 

1. Although it makes a difference, that difference is impossible to properly quantify because every single piece of wood is different no-one has done any serious scientific-based testing (mostly because it's near-on impossible to do.

 

2. Although it makes a difference, that difference is minuscule in terms of all the other factors that go to make up a solid electric instrument, and negligible once the rest of the band start playing.

 

Completely agree. 

 

Back when I worked in acoustics "professionally" I met a professional trumpet maker who told me that he was obliged to offer instruments made of different metals because his clientele expected him to. They were convinced it made a difference to the sound - he was the opposite, but business is business. 

 

FWIW, brass players are similarly "convinced" that you can hear the difference in materials. The research the last time I looked (about fifteen years ago) was inconclusive. This suggests that if there is an effect, its likely way more subtle than people will tell you it is. This is where I stand on things like maple vs rosewood fretboards. 

Edited May 9, 2023 by uncle psychosis

[Paolo85]

10 hours ago, Twincam said:

 

Psychology we know certain things like textures, colour, shades can affect us in various ways. It's maybe possible that even a difference in a guitars colour could effect our playing and therefore tone. 

 

 

 

 

That's a very interesting point. I remember an Andertons video on short scale basses where Lee said something on the line that they sound a bit more like a guitar. To me, a tubby short scale sounds even less like a guitar than a long scale bass. But I guess if you think of it as guitar-like, you play it as guitar-like, you'll hear it guitar-like

Edited May 9, 2023 by Paolo85

[jd56hawk]

I used this for rehearsal Saturday.

No one in their right mind would call the tone bright.

(By the way, it only weighs 7.3 pounds and sounds better than most heavy basses I've played. So much for that theory, too.)

[ezbass]

6 hours ago, Paolo85 said:

I remember an Andertons video on short scale basses where Lee said something on the line that they sound a bit more like a guitar.

Salesman snake oil.

 

Short scales have more pronounced fundamental and less harmonic overtones, which is why they, on the whole, track better with the likes of octave pedals, etc. So they are more bassy and less guitar like. Lee is wrong.

 

I watch quite a few Anderton’s videos and, as much as enjoy them, they are all plainly sales pitches. Everything is amazing and brilliant and… oh, just buy one!