Confused noob in need of some reason. (Or help with setup.)

[Viperpunk]

Hello. I hope it is the right place to post, as my problem is most likely just in my head and not actually technical one. Seemed stupid to post this amongst gear modification and the like. I am very sorry if it is not, I promise I will do better next time.

 

This is going to be just rumblings of overexcited and anxious noob, that probably needs to be told to breath and stop overthinking and overanalizng everything, so either, please brace yourself or leave now and save your sanity. 🤣

 

I think I just succesfully confused myself with too much "internet knowledge". As freshly baked aspiring bassist (very late to the party) and a bass owner of almost three days now ( no I have not bled yet, don't know if I should congratulate myself on this insane self restrain or am I just doing this wrong 😆) I have consumed way too much of youtube content for my own good and started to freak out about my beloved, new cheapo bass' health.

 

I struggle with rather insane amount of buzz, and don't get me wrong here, I know that most, if not all of it, is a user error. I was aware this is going to be a thing, small hands, zero strength, tremors on left ring finger, I never thought this is going to be easy. However as I watched the A string consistently touching the second fret when pressed on the first one I started wandering, am I getting additionaly sabotaged here? And believe me, I do not need any additional sabotage, I suck plenty on my own, I am in fact terrible at it. So I decided to check my setup following along about 100 instructional videos and now I feel even more stupid than before. I feel like I have the necessery puzzles, but I just can't make sense out of them.

 

I do not see any bow on the neck (might be just blind though) it all looks perfectly straight to me... But shoudn't there be a tiny bit of a bow? The action seems to be set up perfectly along the instructional, a little more than 2 mm on E string and exactly 2mm on G on 12th fret. About 3mm on last fret and about 0.5mm on first - approximate as I do not have anything thin enough to push there under the strings on that first fret. So that shouldn't be a problem right? Then again I read opinion that on this entry level cheapo basses a🤣tion should be set up higher in general as they are more prone to uneven frets and other quality problems that may cause issues with lower action... So should I raise my action anyway? And ruin that beautifull job someone already did on it?

 

And now the worst part, I followed this whole "press on the first and last fret (first and 12th, first and wherever neck meets body, depending who is talking) and look how big is the biggest gap between frets and string" thing and discovered that no matter the method used, there is no gap at all, strings are firmly touching the frets and if there is a gap in the middle, it is so miniscule that it's imperceptable by human eye and can only be heared a little when tapped. So that  is bad right? There should be a little bit of a gap and I should adjust the truss rod. But how? I gathered that in this case it needs more relif so turn down, counterclockwise, away from myself (my acces is by the headstock) but then I stumbled upon some infographics telling me that fret buzz on top and bottom frets which is what I mainly experience, means it is the opposite and truss rod should be tightened. I am confused and freaking out. The thought of having to perform such a surgery on my new baby on the THIRD day is terrifying on its own not to mention not knowing which way to turn! I haven't been this stressed in years.

 

So I guess what I'm asking here is, am I just freaking out for no reason? Is all of this maybe normal and I am just trying to find a problem? Insane amount of buzzing  is to be expected from a beginner who never touched an instrument before (well I touched, never tried to play though) and there is no reason for me to worry about truss rod at this stage? It does get better, now on day three there is less buzzing. Or should I be worried? If the truss rod is not very bowed, which it isn't, it is not bad for the instrument itself right? Even if it is not exactly as it should be it will just make it harder for me, and not damage my shiny new baby? I just don't know what to do. Unfortunetely professional setup is out of question, there is a reason I bought a cheapo bass. I literally spent my last penny on it. Priorities, who needs to eat anyway, am I right? So I am left with this dilemma and need to deal with it on my own. I am just going crazy.

 

Any thoughts and suggestions will be greatly appriciated. Or even just "don't freak out, you will live" I might need a reality check right now. Thank you for reading this insanity.

 

 

 

P.S. I am sorry for any weird typos and random emoticons in wrong places, I am on a tablet and it is suprisingly hard to type on a touch screen. Touching emoticons turned out to be a bad decision as they just froze and refuse to work  at all now leaving me with some random ones that can't be deleted. I hope it will let me edit them out later, but if not, I am sorry.  🤣

Edited May 7, 2023 by Viperpunk
Attempt at removing random emoticons - failed

[miles'tone]

Hello! You just need to turn the trussrod nut a quarter turn anti clockwise with an Allen key. Make sure you de-tune your strings until they're quite slack first though, to take the tension off the neck (not so slack that they are completely undone though).

Once you've loosened the trussrod by that quarter turn, tune your bass back up to pitch. You will now have a  little relief in your neck and the buzzing will hopefully be taken care of. Leave it for a day or so before you're tempted to do anymore adjusting as it may take that long to settle in fully. Hopefully you'll be good to go just by following the above.

 

Take it one day at a time, don't beat yourself up and enjoy the ride. It's a bloody fun one! 👊

[Paolo85]

Unfortunately a bass, a cheap bass but not only, does not necessarily come with a good setup out of the shop. So it is possible to have issues.

It seems from what you say that there is little relief (the bow), and that strings in 12th position could benefit from being higher (2mm is great but requires good fretwork. Fender in its guide reccommends 3mm at the 15th to give you an example).

For a good setup in theory you would need a gauge feeler, A capo, a small ruler. Plus allen keys for the truss rod and the saddles at the bridge.

Without allen keys you cannot do anything, but you can survive without the rest.

If you fret the first fret, ask somebody else to fret the last, and put a business card at the eight, that should give you I believe 0.5mm, which is a generous bow which some people use. I aim for 0.3mm to be honest but you could start from 0.5 and then see if, in minuscule increments, you can straighten a bit more without getting buzz. Buzz from a neck that is too straight should be from frets 1 to 5. Also, I would raise the saddles at the bridge so you have 3mm at the E and 2 or even more at the G at the 15th fret. You may need to be creative to measure 3mm. Then you can try to lower a bit and see if it's ok (buzz from string height should be from 5th fret onward).

If it's just a couple of bumpy frets that buzz, you may want to live with that instead of having a ridiculous high action.

Btw, I did not go into the specifics of the truss rood. I am sure you have read how to tighten (straighten) or losen (create bow/relief) Just note that you want to do max 1/4 of a turn per day. Movements from 0.5mm to 0.3mm would be much mucn less than that. And after each mivement wait hours to allow the neck to adjust

Hope this helps

 

 

 

Edited May 7, 2023 by Paolo85

[spencer.b]

Yep as the others have said you need more relief in the neck, personally I'd take it to a pro to do 

[TheGreek]

I disagree. 

 

If you want to prioritise stuff you should think about learning the basics - playing really - rather than stuff that you will only need to know once you've reached a certain level of proficiency.

 

I've been playing for over 30 years on and off and have only become confident fiddling with set ups in the last 5 years or so.

 

Spend your time practicing rather than worrying about 2mm at the 12th fret.

[Phil Starr]

Welcome to Basschat

 

No question is stupid and certainly not this one. All your bass needs is a set up, and the neck will need to be slightly concave or it will buzz at some points when you fret it. You really need to do a set up regularly,  every time you change strings and on a regular basis throughout the life of the bass. The neck will buzz if you set the neck dead straight or sometimes if you set it with too much relief. You can stop it buzzing by raising the bridge of course but too much height at the bridge makes the strings too high to fret easily. The set up is a process of adjusting the neck where the relief moves the strings away from the fretboard and then balancing that sometimes by lowering the bridge if needed and balancing those two things so that the action is low enough to fret all along the neck but high enough to cut out any buzzing. Once you've done all this you may have changed the intonation so you'll need to check that too. It all sounds complex but once you've doine it a couple of times it's no harder than tuning up a new set of strings. I'd also advise you to get someone to help you the first time and preferably someone who will show you how they do it. It's a relatively cheap job to get done as it is a matter of just a few minutes work and a proper set up will make your bass a joy to play. In the long term learn to do it yourself

 

 Step one adjusting your truss rod

 

 

[Reggaebass]

Welcome Viper, great introduction 👍

[Downunderwonder]

It must be a relief to discover said RELIEF is required, after scooting over that in all the YouTube advice.

 

Truss rods require the correct key or you will munch the nut.

 

In your case I would be happy giving it a half turn for the first daily attempt.

 

If you ever overshoot then I think it's fine to retension the rod in experimental small bites. You still have to slacken off the strings but I don't find it necessary to wait another day for it to settle as the rod has its way with the neck when the strings are slack.

[Viperpunk]

1 hour ago, Reggaebass said:

Welcome Viper, great introduction 👍

Is it now? Because I felt bad and made an actual introduction post, it is even worse than this one lol I know hard to believe.

 

As for allen keys, the bass came with some I am assuming they are the right size and in a pinch would do, but my dad already flexed on me by pulling out his huge set of allen keys of all sizes. A weird flex but ok, now watch me "borrow" some. I have no idea why he had them in the first place, flatpack furniture I assume but is he furnishing a whole city? No one knows.

 

Thank you very much for all of the input and good advice, you can't imagine how calming it is to actually talk about this to someone and get a replay as opposed to just ... being confused and going back and forth "am I crazy or not". So it seems I did recognize the problem correctly, a tiny bit proud of myself (not really). Now to tackle it. I'll work on this tomorrow, and by that I mean I'll probably just sit on it for days and obsess some more but that is okay, I feel like I know what needs to be done now. Thank you very much everyone!

 

 

 

 

 

[Paolo85]

19 minutes ago, Viperpunk said:

I'll work on this tomorrow, and by that I mean I'll probably just sit on it for days and obsess some more but that is okay,

 

 

 

 

 

Any time I need to perform a new kind of "operation" that I have never tried before on my basses I sit on it for ages. Maybe I buy the tools but then don't do it for weeks or months even. I guess I find the idea both exciting and stressful. Would I damage something? Would it be extremely difficult?

So far it has always turned out it's all ok. Things are doable and it is difficult to do any damage if you do research in advance and use common sense. I use cheap basses as a starting point I guess the definition of damage would be different on a 5k bass.

To be fair, I do not find setup properly simple, took me a lot of trial and error to learn what I want and need. But on the other hand you can only spend limited time on it per day anyway, and it's fairly "safe"

Edited May 7, 2023 by Paolo85

[Downunderwonder]

1 hour ago, Viperpunk said:

allen keys, the bass came with some I am assuming they are the right size and in a pinch would do, but my dad already flexed on me by pulling out his huge set of allen keys of all sizes

Beware metric and oldfangled sizings. There is often a metric that will be a near fit for an oldfangled hole and vice versa. Then they slip and the nut hole is fubared in short order.

[Ralf1e]

Good morning Viperpunk. Welcome the forum and world of things bass. 

Are you actually in Poland right now or it that just where you come from?

If you were in the UK there is likely a member not far away that could show you and ease your concerns and confusion. Not sure about how many members there may be in Poland. Here we are almost everywhere. 

As others have said it is most likely your truss rod needs a small amount of adjustment. As said above be sure to loosen the strings between adjustments.

Hope you get on well with it.

What make is your bass? It may help shed light on your plight 😀

Edited May 8, 2023 by Ralf1e

[Mykesbass]

As @Ralf1e says, if you are in the UK have a look here for some local help.

 

 

[paddy109]

I used the John Carruthers step by step guide when learning about set ups. I now just do them to suit my style. If you are going to do the work yourself just take small adjustments.

My son is currently learning bass and he gets fret buzz and this is just down to his technique. His bass is fine when I play it.

 

 

[Ralf1e]

1 hour ago, paddy109 said:

I used the John Carruthers step by step guide when learning about set ups. I now just do them to suit my style. If you are going to do the work yourself just take small adjustments.

My son is currently learning bass and he gets fret buzz and this is just down to his technique. His bass is fine when I play it.

 

 

That's the difference between the Mendips and Boydips

[Viperpunk]

8 hours ago, Ralf1e said:

 

Are you actually in Poland right now or it that just where you come from?

(...)

What make is your bass? It may help shed light on your plight 😀

 

I am in Poland, hope that's ok, description said UK and Europe 

I never been in UK although I always wanted to, it is like cursed for me or something, not allowed there. I can't even count how many times a planned trip fell flat the last minute.Eventually I stopped trying because if I succeeded one day it would probably mean it's the end of the world🤣

I just unintentionally lied. I was in Northern Ireland on a day trip in Belfast, it was raining cats and dogs and we spend most of the day in a caffe because you could drown by just walking down the street, so it slipped my mind. Technically though I was in UK, in one caffee

 

My bass is Cort Action Plus, made in Indonesia, just a tiny step above the very bottom😅 I love it regardless.

 

 

47 minutes ago, paddy109 said:

 

My son is currently learning bass and he gets fret buzz and this is just down to his technique. His bass is fine when I play it.

 

 

This is exactly why I was freaking out so much, I thought it must be my lack of technique. But actuall seeing strings touch where they should't when pressed precisely and with utmost care (using the tumb🤣) made me doubt everything in the world.

 

 

Again thanks everyone for all the help and warm welcome.

I will loosen the truss rod tiny bit and see what happens, worse case scenario I'll have highier acction - actually a good thing 🤣

[paddy109]

10 minutes ago, Ralf1e said:

That's the difference between the Mendips and Boydips

Very good. 🤣

[Reggaebass]

Just to catch up here, when you fret single notes on your bass do they all buzz on all strings 

[Viperpunk]

31 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

Just to catch up here, when you fret single notes on your bass do they all buzz on all strings 

No, just some of them, A string is the worse, rest have only a few frets where no buzz is unachievable (I already learned not to pluck so hard 😆)

[Reggaebass]

6 minutes ago, Viperpunk said:

No, just some of them, A string is the worse, rest have only a few frets where no buzz is unachievable (I already learned not to pluck so hard 😆)

Have you tried just adjusting the bridge saddles up a bit before you do anything else to see if it makes any difference 

[nilorius]

Each has his own best setup, so just calm down and try to feel the dead spots and then configure Your best setup in Your head at first, then think twice and do it.

[Viperpunk]

15 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

Have you tried just adjusting the bridge saddles up a bit before you do anything else to see if it makes any difference 

 I have not tried anything yet. Most of buzz is around first frets though, and I thought bridge saddles would affect the other end only?

[sammybee]

18 hours ago, TheGreek said:

I disagree. 

 

If you want to prioritise stuff you should think about learning the basics - playing really - rather than stuff that you will only need to know once you've reached a certain level of proficiency.

 

I've been playing for over 30 years on and off and have only become confident fiddling with set ups in the last 5 years or so.

 

Spend your time practicing rather than worrying about 2mm at the 12th fret.

This is the only thing you should be doing and the only advice you should really heed on this thread! Take your bass to someone local that knows what they are doing and get them to look your bass over. You'll thank @TheGreek for what he has said!!

[tauzero]

14 minutes ago, Viperpunk said:

 I have not tried anything yet. Most of buzz is around first frets though, and I thought bridge saddles would affect the other end only?

 

You said that when you press the strings down at the first fret and also at a higher fret, they touch all the frets in between. That means that there is no relief in the neck. The first step is (as has been said) to increase the relief by slackening off the truss rod. When that is done, you can adjust the bridge saddles.

 

Ignore anyone telling you not to do it. If you can fit the correct sized allen key into a truss rod end and turn it the right way, you can manage this.

[Viperpunk]

7 minutes ago, sammybee said:

 Take your bass to someone local that knows what they are doing and get them to look your bass over. You'll thank @TheGreek for what he has said!!

You have no idea how much I wish this was an option, I wouldn't be here at all if it was. Sadly it is not. And I do thank TheGreek for what he said already why the future tense! 😉  I am very greatfull for every single input here and that was a very good and insightfull one.