Are we being discriminated against .

[Ralf1e]

I found this article online about a musician who it appears is being picked on by a london borough council for practising at home. 

Petition below. What do you think? TV allowed as is Radio but live music practice banned. Sounds like a new dark age to me.

https://chng.it/wvPxLLLHwr

Edited May 11, 2023 by Ralf1e
Typo

[fleabag]

It's one of those blanket catchall knee jerk jobs by some officious  reptile.  It certainly needs more thought.

 

For instance, what if they were an acoustic kit drummer ?   Would anyone like that next door ?

Surely there needs to be some thought going into this sort of legislation, rather than just ban the lot

[Ralf1e]

It looks like some coucil officers are not applying said law for what it was intended for. 

[Downunderwonder]

Can I sign on the basis that whatever nonsense you guys come up with makes it here in about 15 years?

[OliverBlackman]

As many do, I used to live in flats in London and had to give up double bass as a result of neighbour complaints and threats. I never played bass at home through an amp and got into a habit of playing through headphones at all times.

 

I think horns and drums require common sense on hours of practice but to prohibit music at all is ridiculous.

[How1]

I have a similar problem with my neighbour. I sometimes think am I playing too loud, but then think ‘f*?k that guy’ because his tv/home cinema system is on at ridiculous volumes at all hours. I’ve only just got up and can hear it already. No complaints though as yet from him or me. 

[Leonard Smalls]

We had a long running issue with a "neighbour" (he was across the valley, 400m away!) complaining about our band practising.

After many letters from the council and one visit from the police (he'd told them I was breaking covid rules, they were surprised to find me on my own, playing bass with EZ Drummer), plus recording equipment installed at his house, the EHO concluded that while you could hear it there it was by no means at any sort of nuisance level (quieter than the road), and that he was being unreasonable, as we only practised for a couple of hours on a Sunday afternoon...

Which was nice but still rather annoying.

[Cat Burrito]

At a slight tangent and without getting too paranoid about things, I do think musicians tend to be increasingly easier targets. There are plenty of tax avoidance scams that go on in business and at the very top, where as I know a fair few bands who have been hit with huge tax bills because they played some festivals and couldn't prove their small or non existent fee - so got told what they should have earned and been charged for that. 

 

We've had conflicting advice from airlines whilst on tour and been hit with charges for instruments at the last minute when they have us over a barrel, and then there is the Ulez charge for bands on tour. 

 

Obviously, I can only go on the article in the original post and perhaps there is another side to the story but generally it does seem harder these days. I always chat to my neighbours and encourage them to let me know. There is a wider problem with mental health and if you have a difficult neighbour, they can make life very difficult. Thankfully, I've only had that once over the years and it was about her imaginary parking allocation on a public road. 

[Ralf1e]

Oi live in the country where we have nice gardens with lots of grass, bushes and hedges to cut etc.

Both my neighbours cut theirs as do I mine.

After we moved in we nicknamed it machine row as at the weekend there is nearly always some machine or other being used in the area to cut something. Often in the week as well

We asked the neighbors if our music disturbs them and they say no we cant hear it.

One of them likes motorbikes and quads which he test rides around his garden sometimes. 8.30 Sunday maybe.

We choose to live and let live which is great.

In the original article it is apparent that the complainer is a music teacher having a dig at a fellow female musician who she admits she can't hear if she shuts her door. Yet the ar*e from the EHO has insisted in making this order without any decibel readings or other justification.

This threatens the girls livelihood. I hope he finds himself in the same place.

Edited May 11, 2023 by Ralf1e
typo

[jimmyb625]

Our neighbour came around one evening and complained that my daughter was practicing the piano at 21.15, which admittedly may have been later than ideal. 

Strangely, he never seemed to be too concerned when he used to sing a variety of songs and show tunes from 12.30 to 02.00 on a Friday and Saturday night...

[Lozz196]

First thing I did when I moved into my place was tell my neighbours that I’m a musician, that I practice at home but never before 10am and never after 9pm, and that at any point if it’s too loud just knock and ask me to turn down, it won’t offend or annoy me. Probably helps that I practice at regular TV volumes but they’ve never asked me to stop. 

[TimR]

That's a nonsense petition. 

 

Nuisance covers anything that is antisocial. There's no discrimination. 

 

Sounds like communications have broken down there and the person is clutching at straws. Would be interesting to see all the evidence that the neighbour has collated and the evidence the council have that the musician hasn't compromised. 

 

I am currently compiling a noise diary over a new neighbour. So far there's only been 3 occasions but suspect it's going to continue if I don't go over and have a chat. 

 

Said neighbour is 3 houses away and I can hear his music inside my house. 

[Ralf1e]

10 minutes ago, TimR said:

That's a nonsense petition. 

 

Nuisance covers anything that is antisocial. There's no discrimination. 

 

Sounds like communications have broken down there and the person is clutching at straws. Would be interesting to see all the evidence that the neighbour has collated and the evidence the council have that the musician hasn't compromised. 

 

I am currently compiling a noise diary over a new neighbour. So far there's only been 3 occasions but suspect it's going to continue if I don't go over and have a chat. 

 

Said neighbour is 3 houses away and I can hear his music inside my house. 

That about sums you up

[Shaggy]

Circa 1977 an anonymous neighbour had the Police on us for our punk band practicing too loudly in my Mam & Dads garage. 🙁

These days there so many ways to play silently / quietly / virtually I don’t think there’s any excuse.  Unless you’re a church organist.......

[TimR]

16 minutes ago, Ralf1e said:

That about sums you up

 

I think it's wise to collect a few dates before confronting someone. If nothing  else I can see whether I am overreacting. 

 

So far it's actually been 4 occasions; 2 afternoons of ridiculously loud music with his speakers next to his upstairs open window, and 2 long expletive laden telephone conversations while leaning out of the same window. 

[Ralf1e]

20 minutes ago, TimR said:

 

I think it's wise to collect a few dates before confronting someone. If nothing  else I can see whether I am overreacting. 

 

So far it's actually been 4 occasions; 2 afternoons of ridiculously loud music with his speakers next to his upstairs open window, and 2 long expletive laden telephone conversations while leaning out of the same window. 

I gather he didn't seek your permission before he moved in 🤣

[mcnach]

15 hours ago, fleabag said:

It's one of those blanket catchall knee jerk jobs by some officious  reptile.  It certainly needs more thought.

 

For instance, what if they were an acoustic kit drummer ?   Would anyone like that next door ?

Surely there needs to be some thought going into this sort of legislation, rather than just ban the lot

 

Indeed. I thought the main issue is noise, regardless how it's generated, and we can measure sound levels at different frequencies rather easily.

 

It's almost as 'though those in charge of things didn't know what they were doing

[TimR]

13 minutes ago, Ralf1e said:

I gather he didn't seek your permission before he moved in 🤣

 

It's called being antisocial. Creating a nuisance. 

 

I have no issue with someone having their music on. Lots of my neighbours do. But if I can hear someone's music, or telephone conversation inside my house over my TV, and they're not having a party or a special occasion, then that is not normal behaviour. 

 

Seriously, I can hear his telephone conversation 3 houses away, over my TV! 😆

[TimR]

31 minutes ago, mcnach said:

 

Indeed. I thought the main issue is noise, regardless how it's generated, and we can measure sound levels at different frequencies rather easily.

 

It's almost as 'though those in charge of things didn't know what they were doing

 

They're supposed to measure the noise levels if it happens again, so she could just keep making the noise and then they would have to show it's above those levels in order to fine her. But they do have to issue an abatement notice if someone complains. 

 

See Noise from Dwellings:

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/noise-nuisances-how-councils-deal-with-complaints

[Dan Dare]

Unless the person in the story was practicing at ludicrous volumes, a complaint to the Local Government Ombudsman looks to be in order.

[JJTee]

There’s a 21-day right of appeal on all abatement notices. Better off pursuing that, than starting a petition I would have thought.

[paul_c2]

2 hours ago, TimR said:

 

 But they do have to issue an abatement notice if someone complains. 

 

 

 

No they don't.

[TimR]

44 minutes ago, paul_c2 said:

 

No they don't.

According to the link I posted above they must. And the link says the notice must contain a level that the noise must not exceed and the period for which it must not exceed it and that if they do exceed it they MAY be guilty of an offence. 

 

According to the link they don't have to measure it before serving the notice, only after if the complaints continue. And that they have 7 days before issuing the notice to try and come to some agreement. 

 

Great way to get YouTube views and subscribers to your chanel though...

 

I don't buy it, more to it. Why move out and sofa surf? Why not just go round your friend's house to practice? 

[paul_c2]

1 minute ago, TimR said:

According to the link I posted above they must. And the link says the notice must contain a level that the noise must not exceed and the period for which it must not exceed it and that if they do exceed it they MAY be guilty of an offence. 

 

According to the link they don't have to measure it before serving the notice, only after if the complaints continue. And that they have 7 days before issuing the notice to try and come to some agreement. 

 

Great way to get YouTube views and subscribers to your chanel though...

 

I don't buy it, more to it. Why move out and sofa surf? Why not just go round your friend's house to practice? 

 

You've oversimplified it. They don't HAVE to serve a notice, merely on the word of a complaining neighbour.  They need to themselves be satisfied it is a "statuatory nuisance". Here is the actual text from your link:

 

Councils must look into complaints about noise that could be a ‘statutory nuisance’ (covered by the Environmental Protection Act 1990).

For the noise to count as a statutory nuisance it must do one of the following:

unreasonably and substantially interfere with the use or enjoyment of a home or other premises

injure health or be likely to injure health

If they agree that a statutory nuisance is happening or will happen in the future, councils must serve an abatement notice. 

[Downunderwonder]

4 hours ago, TimR said:

2 long expletive laden telephone conversations while leaning out of the same window. 

Good luck with that rooster.