Overplaying 😯

[snorkie635]

1 hour ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

 

Easy, that's just listing all Royal Blood and Death From Above 1979's songs, starting from one end of their back catalog up until and including their most recent release. 

 

I was thinking such as Badge by Cream, Dancin' in the Moonlight by Lizzy, the aforementioned The Chain by Fleetwood Mac, So What by Miles, etc. i'm sure there are thousands of songs/tunes out there that demand specific basslines or whatever is being played, ceases to capture some quintessence of the piece in some way. 😊

Edited May 13, 2023 by snorkie635

[Downunderwonder]

2 hours ago, TimR said:

 

Exactly. If you drive fast, everyone else has to make sure they don't crash into you.

 

Actually you have to drive so you can stop in the clear distance you can see, within the speed limit and traction limits of the surface, with regard for intersections and other hazards. Any faster and you better have a much better reason than I like driving fast.

[SumOne]

Not playing the exact notes for covers is one thing, most would say that's fine if it sounds good. 

 

Overplaying Bass is a different thing though, most people wound say that sounds bad. 

 

Personally, I like simple, clear, accurate basslines that provide a solid foundation for other instruments like guitars to do all the unnecessary noodling over! 

Edited May 13, 2023 by SumOne

[TimR]

40 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said:

Actually you have to drive so you can stop in the clear distance you can see, within the speed limit and traction limits of the surface, with regard for intersections and other hazards. Any faster and you better have a much better reason than I like driving fast.

 

My point is that the people who think there is an appropriate time to drive fast are missing the point. Everyone else has to make allowances for them.

 

Same with appropriate flashy bass. Everyone else has to be making allowances. 

 

That's great if you're on a track day, everyone present has agreed that they might die and is prepared that there will be fast cars. 

 

And it's great of you're in a band where instrumentalists are prepared for flashy bass antics and happy to step back.

 

But if everyone in the band is overplaying - then you have a car crash of epic proportions and the whole band dies. 

Edited May 13, 2023 by TimR

[Owen]

I dream of being able to overplay

[Rich]

I saw a jazz combo down at the Old Duke in Bristol one night; the bassist had a nice old antigua Jazz and my first impression was that he could really play, but it became apparent that he just didn't know when to stop really playing. Or playing at all. He took a solo, which was very impressive, but he just kept doing it. He widdled away all over the sax solo, he even kept on in the drum solo by which time all I wanted was for him to STFU. After a couple of songs my opinion of him had totally changed, and I just wanted him to take his nice old Jazz and feck off home.

[snorkie635]

23 minutes ago, Rich said:

I saw a jazz combo down at the Old Duke in Bristol one night; the bassist had a nice old antigua Jazz and my first impression was that he could really play, but it became apparent that he just didn't know when to stop really playing. Or playing at all. He took a solo, which was very impressive, but he just kept doing it. He widdled away all over the sax solo, he even kept on in the drum solo by which time all I wanted was for him to STFU. After a couple of songs my opinion of him had totally changed, and I just wanted him to take his nice old Jazz and feck off home.

You should have told me. I'd have gone quietly into a corner and cried. 😭

[snorkie635]

1 hour ago, Owen said:

I dream of being able to overplay

I dream of being able to play. 🥴

[Waddo Soqable]

12 minutes ago, snorkie635 said:

I dream of being able to play. 🥴

That “guitar hero" thing has a lot to answer for... 

[snorkie635]

True, but you should see the shapes I can throw. They keep my osteopath wealthy.

[chris_b]

11 hours ago, Ricky 4000 said:

*we all know Jean Paul Jones missed a note right after the first chorus of Ramble On. . . . . .

 

Jerry Scheff, Elvis's bassist, played a bum note on a song and they didn't have enough time to play the song again, so the offending note went out on the record. Jerry said he was driving, many years later, when a cover of the song came on the radio and the bass payer played the bum note! Jerry nearly drove off the road laughing!

 

If you have to play the original line, and there is an obvious mistake, play the right notes. But then I'd say in many songs the original line is only a guide. Play your line.

[Baloney Balderdash]

6 hours ago, SumOne said:

Not playing the exact notes for covers is one thing, most would say that's fine if it sounds good. 

 

Overplaying Bass is a different thing though, most people wound say that sounds bad. 

 

Personally, I like simple, clear, accurate basslines that provide a solid foundation for other instruments like guitars to do all the unnecessary noodling over! 

Personally I like music that isn't stuck in strict conventions for the mere sake of conventions, or should I say lack of imagination or fear of sticking too much out from the norm, to the point where the result is the music equivalent to a mediocre mass produced assembly line product, ending up sounding exactly like just about everything else, with no soul or personality.

 

That said more than anything I like each instrument to fit into the respective piece of music they happen to be playing a part in.

 

There is definitely a time and a place for the bass to be flashy, just as there is a time and place for it to play nothing but root notes.

 

But there is definitely such a thing as underplaying as well, where the music suffers and never reach its true potential because of it.

 

Edited May 13, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[JoeEvans]

I'm remembering Lemmy's comment about Level 42, to the effect that they were a great band, and would sound even better with a bass player. Catty, but some truth in it - there is a job that someone needs to do, musically.

[Kitsto]

Trite to say but I think it depends on the song. There's a v. interesting thread around at the moment about All Right Now. I personally think the original bass part is brilliantly original. Andy Fraser wrote the song and left the bass out of the verse completely! Then when it does come in it's this amazing stuttering frog burp. Then the bit under the solo is out of this world. I saw my mate's cover band play ARN and he had a busy bass player who wrecked the minimalism of the guitar solo by putting a million notes under and over it. It was just plain awful.

 

But then if you take Why Dontcha by West Bruce & Laing, Jack Bruce's bass is all over Leslie West's riffing in some of the most melodic, fast, lead-style rock bass playing I've ever heard. And it lifts a so-so rocker into something wonderful.

Edited May 13, 2023 by Kitsto

[peteb]

1 hour ago, JoeEvans said:

I'm remembering Lemmy's comment about Level 42, to the effect that they were a great band, and would sound even better with a bass player. Catty, but some truth in it - there is a job that someone needs to do, musically.

 

To be fair, there's an interview out there with a post fame Eddie Clarke and Phil Taylor, where they said pretty much the same thing about Motorhead...! 

 

[Elfrasho]

The answer is pretty obvious. do it. if its detriment to the rest of the sound then dial it back.  

[chris_b]

8 hours ago, JoeEvans said:

I'm remembering Lemmy's comment about Level 42, to the effect that they were a great band, and would sound even better with a bass player. . . .

 

I saw Stanley Clark at Hammersmith Odeon and he had a bass player in the band, for that very reason.

[PaulWarning]

whenever I see a bass player not playing the right bass line in a covers song (unless it's obviously the bands own version) I just think either they're lazy, incompetent, or have an ego problem, if you want to play your own bass lines join an originals band ymmv

[linear]

I play what I want.  If that means I'm judged to be a bad bass player, that's fine.  It just means my role has been to make the rest of you look good by comparison.  No need to thank me.  Financial contributions are however welcomed.

[Misdee]

If I'm learning a song at home as an exercise I like to try work out the original bass part, if only as a starting point. Back in the days when I used to play covers in a band I was quite happy to play my rendition, but was always mindful of key elements of the original bass line. However, like the O.P, after a couple of Babychams I may well have decided to share my genius with the audience by embellishing songs with my own ideas.

 

How much of a transgression overplaying might be is a depends greatly on the skill of the bass player.  Quite often what is criticized for overplaying is actually bad playing, and lots of it. Playing what's best for the song doesn't necessarily mean playing less, but it does mean playing better. The best players can do whatever they want to and make it work.

 

Some bass players play a lot, some play less. All that matters is how effective the overall sound is. In some circumstances less is more, in others the more the better. Rush wouldn't have been better served if Geddy Lee had taken a more minimalist approach,, for example, but his bass style would have ruined AC/DC. 

[Rich]

18 hours ago, JoeEvans said:

I'm remembering Lemmy's comment about Level 42, to the effect that they were a great band, and would sound even better with a bass player. 

 

9 hours ago, chris_b said:

 

I saw Stanley Clark at Hammersmith Odeon and he had a bass player in the band, for that very reason.

 

I saw Vic Wooten at the Fleece, and ditto.

[jonno1981]

There is a fine line between adding some colour, personality and a bit of individuality and it becoming a muso w@nkfest. 
As others have said, you’ve got to serve your audience and the song. I’d be peed off as a punter if you played a tune with a proper classic bass line and the bassist changed it too much. 

[snorkie635]

16 minutes ago, Rich said:

 

 

I saw Vic Wooten at the Fleece, and ditto.

Lemmy, Mark King, Stanley Clark and Victor Wooten all came to see my band play at the Tooth and Abscess and wondered where the bass player was. 😃

[Waddo Soqable]

9 minutes ago, snorkie635 said:

Lemmy, Mark King, Stanley Clark and Victor Wooten all came to see my band play at the Tooth and Abscess and wondered where the bass player was. 😃

Your bandmates did a Sid "Viscous" on you and turned your amp off... 

[Rich]

35 minutes ago, snorkie635 said:

Lemmy, Mark King, Stanley Clark and Victor Wooten all came to see my band play at the Tooth and Abscess and wondered where the bass player was. 😃

They did that with my band too. It turned out that the bass player was hiding in the dressing room crying.