PBass and JBass band tone differences

[TheLowDown]

17 hours ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

Uhm?

 

I don't agree (well except for the sound of P Bass being the archetypical electric bass guitar tone).

 

If anything, as far as I am concerned, J Basses in general has a much more anonymous tone compared to the tone of a typical P Bass, which as far as I am concerned is full of character (and yes, I do love the sound of a P soloed as well).

 

Ever heard The Stranglers, to name just one band where a P Bass has a quite central role, and definitely does a lot more than act as just a support for the other instrument and is quite precent in the mix...

 

And it's not like even something as traditional and historically archetypical P Bass as James Jamerson's works exactly stays in the background either. 

 

If anything a J Bass with both pickups full on is likely to get lost in the mix, unless slapped, because of it's inherent mid scoop.

 

Also if you actually listen side by side to respectively a typical P Bass and a typical J neck pickup solo without any other instruments they will sound almost identical (given of course equipped with the same type/brand/model of strings and played through the same rig), the thing that will give the J away would be its somewhat more polished anonymous lack of character in comparison to the P with its somewhat more edgy tone full of character. 

 

Of course, the P can play a central role such as in a lot of soul and rnb and reggae etc, when the music isn't busy. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

With the J I have never been able to put it to any good use, whereas I view the P as more a plug and play bass that is either heard or felt. The bridge pickup may as well not be there, that bright nasal sounding tone that cuts through a busy mix is grating to me. When they are both on full, you're right, it disappears. When the neck pickup is on full and the bridge is off, you get something that tries to be a P but doesn't quite convince.

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by TheLowDown

[DGBass]

There isn't much you can't cover with either a P-Bass or a Jazz Bass. It's always made sense to me to have one of each to cover all bases, no pun intended. The main difference for me is that I always play a P Bass with the volume and tone up full whereas my Jazz is much more capable of a variety of tones. Mostly my Jazz has the neck pickup on full and the bridge pickup is used to vary tone. Even subtle changes to the bridge volume control can bring big tonal changes in this manner. Occasionally I'll use the bridge on full with the neck off for a mid heavy honk. I've always thought of my P Bass as a one trick pony and it does that very well. I dare say there are variations depending on where the tone and volume controls are but a fully open P Bass makes a glorious sound and thats the way I like it uh huh🤩

[Baloney Balderdash]

1 hour ago, DGBass said:

There isn't much you can't cover with either a P-Bass or a Jazz Bass. It's always made sense to me to have one of each to cover all bases, no pun intended. The main difference for me is that I always play a P Bass with the volume and tone up full whereas my Jazz is much more capable of a variety of tones. Mostly my Jazz has the neck pickup on full and the bridge pickup is used to vary tone. Even subtle changes to the bridge volume control can bring big tonal changes in this manner. Occasionally I'll use the bridge on full with the neck off for a mid heavy honk. I've always thought of my P Bass as a one trick pony and it does that very well. I dare say there are variations depending on where the tone and volume controls are but a fully open P Bass makes a glorious sound and thats the way I like it uh huh🤩

So you are saying Steve Harris, J.J Burnel and James Jamerson sounds the same to you?

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[DGBass]

1 hour ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

So you are saying Steve Harris, J.J Burnel and James Jamerson sounds the same to you?

Did I say that? Not sure I did. I use the same flats on both my Jazz and P Bass and the P Bass is wide open always. I find you get the most from a P bass this way eg harmonic content with the volume and tone up full. I then EQ the P Bass from the amp. My Jazz has more tonal variation and I will adjust the controls on my Jazz regularly but won't on a P.  I play finger style only on both basses. Of course you can make different tones with a P Bass but for me it always sounds best with tone and volume up full and EQ set on the amp. Been playing the same P Bass for twenty five years now and that way works best for me. A player also imparts his own unique style on a bass so Steve Harris, J.J Burnel ,James Jamerson and DGBass's fingers (or pick) will all be doing different things to tone as will the different amplification and type of strings they use. A P Bass's biggest plus is simplicity, its a true plug in and play instrument, volume up , tone up and away you go. A Jazz has a bit more of the same imho🙂

[Baloney Balderdash]

46 minutes ago, DGBass said:

Did I say that? Not sure I did. I use the same flats on both my Jazz and P Bass and the P Bass is wide open always. I find you get the most from a P bass this way eg harmonic content with the volume and tone up full. I then EQ the P Bass from the amp. My Jazz has more tonal variation and I will adjust the controls on my Jazz regularly but won't on a P.  I play finger style only on both basses. Of course you can make different tones with a P Bass but for me it always sounds best with tone and volume up full and EQ set on the amp. Been playing the same P Bass for twenty five years now and that way works best for me. A player also imparts his own unique style on a bass so Steve Harris, J.J Burnel ,James Jamerson and DGBass's fingers (or pick) will all be doing different things to tone as will the different amplification and type of strings they use. A P Bass's biggest plus is simplicity, its a true plug in and play instrument, volume up , tone up and away you go. A Jazz has a bit more of the same imho🙂

Fair enough, but I was referring to your notion that P Basses are one trick ponies, though it does seem, on a more thorough readthrough of your reply, as a contradiction to some of the other statements you make.

 

I guess we can't all make equally as much sense all the time, I know I don't, just confused me.

 

Please do carry on...

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[dclaassen]

Great discussion!

 

Application has a lot to do with your selection of instruments. If you are recording, or playing a lot of gigs where FOH is being professionally mixed, then a P bass is a great tool. Sound engineers know what to do with it, and so will usually give you a great sound in the mix. However, if you are playing in a band where the sound is "mixed" onstage by one of the guitar players, and you are in a wide range of venues, then I think a J bass or some kind of active bass is better, because you can shape the sound on the fly. 

 

I've gone to using active basses almost exclusively (except for the fretless). If I ever got into a situation like the first one above, I'd most likely buy a passive P bass, depending on the needs of the sound guy. 

 

[JapanAxe]

I find a Precision works for me at least 95% of the time, hence the list of basses in my signature. There are times when I fancy a bridge pickup, but not a Jazz one, rather something fatter like a MM or other humbucker. I also can’t be doing with a VVT control setup - just give me volume, tone (passive) and a pickup selector switch.

 

I’ll repeat what I’ve often said - use what works for you. Despite my best efforts I’ve yet to find a Jazz or J-type that works for me. Who knows though, maybe that day will come.

[BassAdder60]

As a follow on to this … I think I’m becoming a Jazz bass convert.

 

For me I’m finding I prefer the neck and the sound and it does have something different going on with it’s sound compared to a PBass 

 

I particularly like neck pup on full, bridge pup on 50% and tone on full.

Hard to explain but it just works better for me and my fingers ! 
The tone is deep but better mid clarity ( not low mids like a PBass but mid to high mids ) 

It has better articulation to my ears and I’m enjoying this discovery of Jazz basses 

So now what .. I have two like new Player Series PBass guitars that I may be having to trade or sell .. 

Weight ?? Jazz basses I think tend to be heavier so a better strap perhaps to my 2.5” Levy Leather strap 

 

Happy Bassist for now !!! 

[ezbass]

45 minutes ago, BassAdder60 said:

It has better articulation to my ears and I’m enjoying this discovery of Jazz basses 

All that matters.

 

45 minutes ago, BassAdder60 said:

Jazz basses I think tend to be heavier

This is true, but there is lot more real estate in the body than a P. However, a chambered body or a mini J shape (Sadowsky for instance) will address this issue in short order. My Maruszczyk Elwood L (chambered, J type) comes in at under 3.3kg.

[Lozz196]

1 hour ago, BassAdder60 said:

As a follow on to this … I think I’m becoming a Jazz bass convert.

 

For me I’m finding I prefer the neck and the sound and it does have something different going on with it’s sound compared to a PBass 

 

I particularly like neck pup on full, bridge pup on 50% and tone on full.

Hard to explain but it just works better for me and my fingers ! 
The tone is deep but better mid clarity ( not low mids like a PBass but mid to high mids ) 

It has better articulation to my ears and I’m enjoying this discovery of Jazz basses 

So now what .. I have two like new Player Series PBass guitars that I may be having to trade or sell .. 

Weight ?? Jazz basses I think tend to be heavier so a better strap perhaps to my 2.5” Levy Leather strap 

 

Happy Bassist for now !!! 

That’s pretty much how I have the controls on a Jazz, maybe a tad less at say 35%, I find it’s very similar sounding to a Precision but with a more defined sound. 

[BassAdder60]

1 hour ago, Lozz196 said:

That’s pretty much how I have the controls on a Jazz, maybe a tad less at say 35%, I find it’s very similar sounding to a Precision but with a more defined sound. 

Yes I agree it’s near enough to satisfy my PBass tone but also gives a slight clearer hi mid tone which I like 

 

Naturally some will like it some will not, all personal taste and what works for the individual… if it wasn’t like that we would all play the same bass !!

[BassAdder60]

So … Jazz Bass used at last nights gig and interesting discovery… it sounds so much more prominent in the band mix. 
 

It took me by surprise as using my PBass it would sit low in the mix but the Jazz seems to have a mid / high mid presence and deep lows 

 

My PBass always has lots of low mids that are hard to EQ for clarity sometimes. 
 

Still love my PBass but happy I have both as it was a pleasant discovery 

 

 

[fretmeister]

On 25/05/2023 at 09:46, JapanAxe said:

I find a Precision works for me at least 95% of the time, hence the list of basses in my signature. There are times when I fancy a bridge pickup, but not a Jazz one, rather something fatter like a MM or other humbucker. I also can’t be doing with a VVT control setup - just give me volume, tone (passive) and a pickup selector switch.

 

I’ll repeat what I’ve often said - use what works for you. Despite my best efforts I’ve yet to find a Jazz or J-type that works for me. Who knows though, maybe that day will come.

Funny you mention the selector switch. I used to prefer that too. I thought they sounded better but I also thought that was just in my head!

 

Then after talking with a pickup maker I got my first lesson about insertion loss when 2 pickups are competing with each other via different pots or a passive balance control. Using a selector switch and just a single vol & tone solves that but then there are no blended tones available other than 50/50. Or more like 70/30 on a P because the P pickup is much more powerful.

 

So on my j type I put in an EMG active balance control that removes insertion loss issues. Now I get the full J type tone no matter where the balance is set.

 

I liked it so much I’ve done the same with my Ibby Mezzo too albeit with the EMG PJ-X set. The P alone sounds just like a P should, and the combined tone is much better. The P usually overpowers a J but with this set up I can balance it properly without any of the frequency loss that annoyed me when trying to balance passive PJ sets.

 

The only trouble is that EMG active blend - 2 models, ABC and ABCX, are a bit expensive to buy as a single item, but for their full preamp systems that include a blend it is an active one.

[JapanAxe]

1 hour ago, fretmeister said:

Funny you mention the selector switch. I used to prefer that too. I thought they sounded better but I also thought that was just in my head!

 

Then after talking with a pickup maker I got my first lesson about insertion loss when 2 pickups are competing with each other via different pots or a passive balance control. Using a selector switch and just a single vol & tone solves that but then there are no blended tones available other than 50/50. Or more like 70/30 on a P because the P pickup is much more powerful.

 

So on my j type I put in an EMG active balance control that removes insertion loss issues. Now I get the full J type tone no matter where the balance is set.

 

I liked it so much I’ve done the same with my Ibby Mezzo too albeit with the EMG PJ-X set. The P alone sounds just like a P should, and the combined tone is much better. The P usually overpowers a J but with this set up I can balance it properly without any of the frequency loss that annoyed me when trying to balance passive PJ sets.

 

The only trouble is that EMG active blend - 2 models, ABC and ABCX, are a bit expensive to buy as a single item, but for their full preamp systems that include a blend it is an active one.

 

Good point about passive balance pots. I much prefer to stick with passive circuits though. I'm happy to live without the full range of blended tones as long as I can achieve one good sweet spot e.g. by setting pickup heights.

[fretmeister]

8 minutes ago, JapanAxe said:

 

Good point about passive balance pots. I much prefer to stick with passive circuits though. I'm happy to live without the full range of blended tones as long as I can achieve one good sweet spot e.g. by setting pickup heights.

 

I use the pickup tops as a ramp so mine are always as close as I can get away with. I'm definitely making the P -v- J volume output problem worse!  but I find it a lot easier to play that way with a damaged finger.

 

If I play someone else's bass with lower pickup heights I have to swap to playing only with a pick. I just can't do fingers without a ramp anymore. At least not competently.