Drum programming - Left and Right

[Nail Soup]

Just something that puzzles me, would be interested to hear some discussion and thoughts on it.

Go to a drum tutorial and before long the teacher is teaching how to do rolls etc which are expressed in terms of left and right hand. So a paradiddle is RRLR-LLRL, and another different sounding roll is RRLL-RRLL. Both have the same 'hits' as each other, it's just the handedness that varies.

So far so good.

So...  in a world with sophisticated drum sounds, multi-layered samples etc why does no drum programming software I've ever seen have the ability to program a 'left hit' and 'right hit'?

[Doctor J]

Before I went back to playing a kit, when I was programming, I used to use a slightly different snare sound (either a different sample or a change in velocity to get something different) to replicate what you're trying to do and avoid the machine gun effect. Never more than two of the same sound in a row.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Doctor J

[rubis]

i think with some, Superior Drummer 3, possibly, you can make such tweaks, i think there might be some feature to change the leading hand, if that's what you mean? 

[lowdown]

21 minutes ago, rubis said:

i think with some, Superior Drummer 3, possibly, you can make such tweaks, i think there might be some feature to change the leading hand, if that's what you mean? 

 

Yes, there are a few Software Virtual Drummers that do this. 

Also these days, look out for libraries that have 'Round-Robin' samples. I've lifted the below from elsewhere, which sums it up nicely.

 

"I doubt that you'll need to read a tutorial. Round-robin is simply a way to let sample developers play back a different sampled version of the same sound each time you hit the same key, so that just like most acoustic instruments each note sounds slightly different for more realism.

This feature becomes particularly important with drum libraries to avoid the 'machine gun' effect of rapidly repeating the same (for instance) snare drum sound.

By having two, four or eight slightly different snare samples, played back in sequence, you avoid such artificial-sounding effects, since if you keep hitting the same key it will play back (for instance):

Sample 1, Sample 2, Sample 3, Sample 4, Sample 1, Sample 2...Sometimes they are random Sample1, Sample 3 etc..."

I

 

[WinterMute]

13 hours ago, lowdown said:

 

Yes, there are a few Software Virtual Drummers that do this. 

Also these days, look out for libraries that have 'Round-Robin' samples. I've lifted the below from elsewhere, which sums it up nicely.

 

"I doubt that you'll need to read a tutorial. Round-robin is simply a way to let sample developers play back a different sampled version of the same sound each time you hit the same key, so that just like most acoustic instruments each note sounds slightly different for more realism.

This feature becomes particularly important with drum libraries to avoid the 'machine gun' effect of rapidly repeating the same (for instance) snare drum sound.

By having two, four or eight slightly different snare samples, played back in sequence, you avoid such artificial-sounding effects, since if you keep hitting the same key it will play back (for instance):

Sample 1, Sample 2, Sample 3, Sample 4, Sample 1, Sample 2...Sometimes they are random Sample1, Sample 3 etc..."

I

 

 

Add to that the velocity switch layering most decent drum systems have these days, BFD and Slate Drums being the two I habitually use if I have to programme drums, and you do get a much more realistic response.

 

Interestingly this tech has been embedded in some of the triggering plug-ins too, the Slate version being particularly good at emulating the tone of an original drum recording. I still tend to layer triggered sounds with the originals rather than replace, but it all helps.

[lowdown]

1 hour ago, WinterMute said:

 

Add to that the velocity switch layering most decent drum systems have these days, BFD and Slate Drums being the two I habitually use if I have to programme drums, and you do get a much more realistic response.

 

Interestingly this tech has been embedded in some of the triggering plug-ins too, the Slate version being particularly good at emulating the tone of an original drum recording. I still tend to layer triggered sounds with the originals rather than replace, but it all helps.

 

Velocity X-Fade as well, which is also great for rolls, crescendos and decrescendos etc. The VSL Syncron Player is excellent for this via Mod Wheel or whatever Midi controller that yoy want to use.

X-Fade is very useful in real time playing as well, although, of course you can program or draw in the Midi data after. 

Getting pretty authentic results/mock-ups out of Virtual Instruments these days has never been easier....or cheaper!!

There are some great deals around with constant sales on if you keep your eyes open (and a few very decent freebies as well).

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by lowdown

[velvetkevorkian]

My old version of EZDrummer includes notes for left and right for kick and snare in its MIDI mapping, although I'm not convinced they actually trigger anything differently.

[JoeEvans]

You could decide how your imaginary drummer plays then programme that in - for example, does he/she hit the snare slightly closer to the rim with one or other hand? Do they tend to whack the toms harder with their right hand? Is the left hand a little bit behind the beat on some snare patterns?

 

[funkgod]

On 24/05/2023 at 13:57, Nail Soup said:

Just something that puzzles me, would be interested to hear some discussion and thoughts on it.

Go to a drum tutorial and before long the teacher is teaching how to do rolls etc which are expressed in terms of left and right hand. So a paradiddle is RRLR-LLRL, and another different sounding roll is RRLL-RRLL. Both have the same 'hits' as each other, it's just the handedness that varies.

So far so good.

So...  in a world with sophisticated drum sounds, multi-layered samples etc why does no drum programming software I've ever seen have the ability to program a 'left hit' and 'right hit'?

 

hi nail, i have always done paradiddles as RLRR LRLL like the word.. pa,ra, di, dul, (ba be ba ba... be ba be be.   repeat) 🙂

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by funkgod

[Dad3353]

On 24/05/2023 at 14:57, Nail Soup said:

... why does no drum programming software I've ever seen have the ability to program a 'left hit' and 'right hit'?

 Not true, of course, for the Good ones. As an example  Superior Drummer 3 gives the choice of either programming manually left/right hits, or adopting the 'Alternate Hits' function, which, as its name implies, triggers samples alternately (useful for double bass drum 'blast beats', for instance...). With normal 'round robin' sample triggering and 'humanised' velocity levels, it would be difficult to tell whether it's a machine or just a very good drummer, most of the time, without a specific 'right/left' precision, but it's there if you want/need it. Other drum software have similar functionality (BFD, Slate and others still...).

When practising drum rudiments, using 'mama-papa' strokes and/or paradiddles, one of the aims is to have an even 'hand', so as to not hear a difference between the two hands. It's not the easiest of exercises, and is often neglected, but in theory at least, one would not hear any 'right/left' from a Good Drummer, so it's a bit of a moot point as to whether software should offer it or not. Listen to Buddy Rich, Joe Morello, Terry Bozio or Dave Weckl (other brilliant drummers exist...) and I defy you to tell which hand/foot they're playing any particular stroke with.

Just sayin', hope this helps. 

Edited July 19, 2023 by Dad3353

[Nail Soup]

21 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

but in theory at least, one would not hear any 'right/left' from a Good Drummer, so

If that’s the case why does the paradiddle etc even exist? If L and R are identical then isn’t paradiddle same as, say, mama papa?

[Dad3353]

2 minutes ago, Nail Soup said:

If that’s the case why does the paradiddle etc even exist? If L and R are identical then isn’t paradiddle same as, say, mama papa?

 

A paradiddle is a means of getting back to one's 'leading' hand when going around the toms, for instance. Playing T1 'LRLR', then T2 'LRLR' then the floor T3 'LRLR, I would want to get back to the snare with my right hand, so would play the T3 as a paradiddle, ''LRLL'. (I play 'lefty', so inverse, maybe, for 'righty' drumming'...). There are oodles of drum rudiments, most of which were evolved from marching drums, primarily on the snare, but one may use their application in practical ways, once they've become natural, on a modern kit. It's not just theory, or exercises for exercises' sake. It's all useful. Hope this helps. 

[AndyFereday]

Would using a midi drum controller with velocity sensitive keys make a difference? I use the Novation Launchpad X to input approximate rhythms which I then quantize to varying degrees. Or you can get an Alesis drum pad for around £40 on eBay if you want to actually use sticks. I think that variation in trigger velocity and slight timing variation would make a difference?

[lowdown]

Yes, velocity sensitive keys will make a difference with dynamics. There are many videos on 'finger' drumming on YouTube worth looking at.

Dom Sigalas has a decent tutorial. It's about twenty minutes long with a chapter list. There are probably better videos out there, but this one is short and sweet:

 

 

 

[Dad3353]

3 hours ago, AndyFereday said:

Would using a midi drum controller with velocity sensitive keys make a difference? ...

 

Yes.