Wireless system - any 100% reliable long term reports?

[Guest]

I’ve been looking at online reviews of wireless systems and they all seem to come with problems. Generally these are tone colouration and occasional signal dropouts.

 

The question is, has anyone regularly gigged a wireless system for 3+ years with absolutely ZERO issues? If so please let me know.

[Guest]

Before anyone gets clever, I mean the wireless system is 100% reliable rather than the report being reliable. 😊

[warwickhunt]

Line 6 G50 no colouration that I'm concerned about.  Zero drop out issues... till about a year ago!  I believe it is the congested 2.4 frequency, compounded by the band's use of a router now.  I've gone over to a cheapie 5.2 system and no probs with drop outs but only weeks into it's use.

[Mudpup]

Sony DWZ B30 owner here. Bought it in Oct 2014, done an average of 50 gigs per year since then and never had a single issue with it. Not one, nada. Ever.

 

Runs on 2 rechargeable AA batteries and I can safely get over 6 hours per charge out of it. Metal transmitter body and clip and a cable tone attenuator if you want to induce some top end loss into it. The receiver also has a get you out of trouble DI output on it if you need it and a tuner out. Receiver runs on batteries or a few mains power options. I just run it from my pedalboard power supply at 9v.

 

https://www.guitarinteractivemagazine.com/review/sony-dwz-b30gb-wireless-system/

 

Looks like you can get the 2 separate components from here for about £360 and just sort out your own guitar jack cable

https://www.digibroadcast.com/audio-c63/wireless-transmission-c167/sony-m54

 

 

Edited May 29, 2023 by Mudpup

[Acebassmusic]

3 hours ago, Mudpup said:

Sony DWZ B30 owner here. Bought it in Oct 2014, done an average of 50 gigs per year since then and never had a single issue with it. Not one, nada. Ever.

 

I bought mine about the same time and have gigged it extensively with no problems. In fact over the last 3 or 4 years I use it when I practice at home as well so thats a LOT of use 👍

[nightsun]

Been using a line 6 G10 II for many years.  Th only issue is if I forget to charge it.

[woodyratm]

I’m using the Shure reissue - GLXD1+ and it’s been flawless since I got it. 
 

I have the sennheiser digital one too - was excellent too. Just the dongle wasn’t what I liked. I should probs sell that to be honest. 

[Bassman68]

I’ve used a Sennheiser ew300 system for 20+ years with no problems, apart from replacing the occasional transmitter arial & lead?

[BigRedX]

There are no 100% reliable wireless systems. Even the very expensive "pro" models that require paid for transmission frequencies are prone to problems.

 

As has already been said the 2.4GHz systems are definitely to be avoided now as they are competing with far too many other devices for bandwidth (every audience member's mobile phone for starters). Right now 5GHz systems appear to be better but expect them to get less reliable as more devices start using this frequency. 

 

I used to have the Sony device mentioned previously in this thread but stopped using it after a couple of instances where the transmitter pack mysteriously changed channels mid-performance breaking the connection. On both occasions I noticed that the PA mix was being done wirelessly using a tablet - whether that was the reason I don't know but I wasn't prepared to risk it again to try and find out. Right for both my bands now all mission-critical connections on stage are done with wires.

Edited May 31, 2023 by BigRedX

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

There are no 100% reliable wireless systems. Even the very expensive "pro" models that require paid for transmission frequencies are prone to problems.

 

As has already been said the 2.4GHz systems are definitely to be avoided now as they are competing with far too many other devices for bandwidth (every audience member's mobile phone for starters). Right now 5GHz systems appear to be better but expect them to get less reliable as more devices start using this frequency. 

 

I used to have the Sony device mentioned previously in this thread but stopped using it after a couple of instances where the transmitter pack mysteriously changed channels mid-performance breaking the connection. On both occasions I noticed that the PA mix was being done wirelessly using a tablet - whether that was the reason I don't know but I wasn't prepared to risk it again to try and find out. Right for both my bands now all mission-critical connections on stage are done with wires.

The more I read the more I think I’m going to stick with cables. Thanks for your extensive reply.

[fretmeister]

You don't have to stick with cables - but make sure you have a cable as a backup.

 

Some pedalboard receivers have a dedicated Guitar Input socket so you don't even have to faff around disconnecting the wireless. Just plug the cable in, swap to that input, and off you go. 30 seconds max.

 

The discontinued L6 G70/75 does that, the new model Shure GLXD16+ has it, and others. 

 

If I was in the market now I'd get a dual band (Like the new Shure) that automatically swaps between 2.4 and 5Ghz as needed to reduce congestion and dropouts.

 

https://www.shure.com/en-GB/products/wireless-systems/glx-d_plus/glxd16p?variant=GLXD16+UK-Z4#explore

 

 

As BigredX says - there are no 100% reliable systems at any money. Even the monster stage stuff like Metallica use where the players can be 30 meters apart have multiple back ups and have cables ready just in case.

 

Sometimes the local conditions are just not what you need. That is not the fault of the gear though.

 

There's no 100% reliable amps / basses / power supplies / singers either.

[EBS_freak]

ULXD here. Not cheap... but it is a pro touring grade system.

 

RF never means reliable, as I've always advocated, cable as a backup.

 

Everything but a a co-ordinated radio setup, where every frequency is specifically calculated and allocated is a bit of a crap shoot. A lot of consumer devices won't give you the flexibility to do this!

[Woodinblack]

Never actually had a problem with a wireless system, although I have always had a backup. Also no to tone colouration, or at least not as much as a system with a cable.

So for me, yes, I have used 2 100% reliable wireless systems.

[EBS_freak]

And not one mention of latency yet! (Which should be another point of consideration!

[fretmeister]

24 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

ULXD here. Not cheap... but it is a pro touring grade system.

 

RF never means reliable, as I've always advocated, cable as a backup.

 

Everything but a a co-ordinated radio setup, where every frequency is specifically calculated and allocated is a bit of a crap shoot. A lot of consumer devices won't give you the flexibility to do this!

 

 

The L6 G70 was very good as a consumer item. There were complaints of dropouts but that seemed to be from people too lazy to read the instructions. It specifically recommended that every time it was turned on it should be put in scanning mode so it could find the best frequencies. Even if soundcheck was ok, it should be redone at the beginning of the gig when 200 people with mobile phones come into the room.

 

Then it was excellent. I liked the adjustable cable length simulation and boost options it had too.

 

These days though... it's perfect for not having cables draped all over the lounge upsetting the wife!  

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

And not one mention of latency yet! (Which should be another point of consideration!

The Xvive has noticeable latency. I didn’t enjoy using it at all because of that.

[fretmeister]

5ms or under is usually fine, but lower is always better.

 

Moving a couple of metres further away from the cab actually has a bigger effect on the time between playing and the sound reaching the ears than that.

 

My L6 is 1.5ms and my Smoothhound is 5ms. I can't tell the difference when I'm moving about.

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

5ms or under is usually fine, but lower is always better.

 

Moving a couple of metres further away from the cab actually has a bigger effect on the time between playing and the sound reaching the ears than that.

 

My L6 is 1.5ms and my Smoothhound is 5ms. I can't tell the difference when I'm moving about.

I think Xvive is 6ms. I can’t be certain whether the latency was real or if it was because I was listening for it. Either way I stopped wanting to use the Xvive.

[EBS_freak]

I take it you guys haven't ventured into the IEM thread where I delve into the joys of latency of wireless... and cumulative latency (when you start introducing digital pedals/models/mixing desks etc).

 

Comparing latency in IEM use and latency through distance from standing from a cab are different - the brain compensates in different ways

[fretmeister]

Speaker to ear latency is about 1ms per foot. Sound moves at about 1043 feet per second - depending on atmospherics.

 

So with the Xvive at 6ms if you were right next to the speaker it would be the same as you standing 6ft away from the speaker.

 

If you weren't using a wireless (or indeed any other digital device with ADA converters that add latency) then you don't have to move very far away for physical distance to be far more of an issue than the wireless latency could cause.

[BigRedX]

But as EBS_freak has mentioned, your brain along with the fact that you have two ears for direction and distance location is very good at compensating for latency/delay caused by sound coming from a physical distance. It's not so good at compensating for sound being delayed by other means and even less good when that sound is being piped directly into your ears with either no ambience or artificial ambience.

Edited May 31, 2023 by BigRedX

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

But as EBS_freak has mentioned, your brain along with the fact that you have two ears for direction and distance location is very good at compensating for latency/delay caused by sound coming from a physical distance. It's not so good at compensating for sound being delayed by other means and even less good when that sound is being piped directly into your ears with either no ambience or artificial ambience.

This does make a lot of sense. I’d previously read that the Xvive latency is no more than standing a few feet from my amp speaker, so I couldn’t understand how or why things felt awkward when I was playing through the Xvive. This is a viable explanation for that.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

I take it you guys haven't ventured into the IEM thread where I delve into the joys of latency of wireless... and cumulative latency (when you start introducing digital pedals/models/mixing desks etc).

 

Comparing latency in IEM use and latency through distance from standing from a cab are different - the brain compensates in different ways

I’ll certainly look for the thread, thanks.

Edited May 31, 2023 by Lord Summerisle

[jimmyb625]

4 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

And not one mention of latency yet! (Which should be another point of consideration!

It had been mentioned at the time you posted, there was just a delay in the message reaching the post...

[EBS_freak]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

Right now 5GHz systems appear to be better but expect them to get less reliable as more devices start using this frequency. 

 

5Ghz, using like for like power, has a reduced range and not as good as passing through masses, such as buildings... and bodies of people.