Classic Vibe Bass VI

[northcountrybob]

Yo!

 

I just made a crazy purchase of a Bass VI. 
 

I know the intonation is likely going to by wacky, so I’ll be shimming the neck and getting some heavier strings. 
 

I wondered if anyone else here had modded one. I have an old USA Jag I can borrow a trem off. I was debating the staytrem bridge (20 week lead time!) or a mastery, maybe… 

 

down the road maybe some jag quarter pounders. 
 

A mastery seems like an expensive part for a squier. And I’m not sure if I can get up to 100 gauge strings through a standard jag trem. 
 

anyone got any thoughts? 

[Waddo Soqable]

I've got one of these, tbh I certainly wouldn't be spending 100 quid on another bridge for it! 

The main issue seems to be getting the low E saddle back far enough to intonate it, some have simply reversed the bridge and put the adj screws at the front enabling the saddle to go right back. 

A slightly thicker string on the E has helped with the intonation when others have changed them, I've got stock strings on it for now and still doing adjustments. There's a firm doing a string set for these with a heavier E, the sets only about 20 quid too, so good value compared to most other options. 

I can't remember off hand what they're called, I'll report back. 

Great fun instrument to play and an excellent "ideas machine" too. 

 

edit... Axion string works, Newtone Squier VI set, UK based, they assemble a set to order. 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Waddo Soqable
Add info

[northcountrybob]

Awesome. 

 

I didn't know of the Newtones. Fender do a set which are 24 , 34 , 44 , 65 , 80 , 100. 

https://www.stringsdirect.co.uk/strings-c1/string-sets-c865/bass-guitar-c34/fender-super-nps-250-bass-vi-strings-24-100-ball-end-p14790

 

I've played guitar (questionably) for 25 years at this point. The past few I've been playing bass more in bands and that's really got me excited about music again. The idea for this bass is exactly what you mention about it being fun and some kind of idea machine. When it comes to more strings, I think I'd rather go this way than a tradition 5 or 6 string bass. 

 

 

[Waddo Soqable]

45 minutes ago, northcountrybob said:

Awesome. 

 

I didn't know of the Newtones. Fender do a set which are 24 , 34 , 44 , 65 , 80 , 100. 

https://www.stringsdirect.co.uk/strings-c1/string-sets-c865/bass-guitar-c34/fender-super-nps-250-bass-vi-strings-24-100-ball-end-p14790

 

I've played guitar (questionably) for 25 years at this point. The past few I've been playing bass more in bands and that's really got me excited about music again. The idea for this bass is exactly what you mention about it being fun and some kind of idea machine. When it comes to more strings, I think I'd rather go this way than a tradition 5 or 6 string bass. 

 

 

Absolutely, I had a 6 string regular bass for a short time and found the 4x2 plank of a neck not exactly conducive to anything really, and against the prevailing trend ( as always) I just dislike everything about 5's

I didn't know Fender did a set for these👍... you'd think they'd fit them to the Squiers from the outset really wouldn't you. 

[BigRedX]

For me a set of Newtones and a shim was sufficient to get it playable enough to use.

 

I found that as soon as I fitted the heavier strings and  increased the break angle over the bridge and the vibrato mechanism became inoperable. If you really want to make sure the bridge doesn't wobble about at all have a look at fitting collars made from plastic or metal pipe off-cuts around the bridge posts. Much cheaper than a replacement bridge.

 

As for upgrading the pickups it will depend how you intend to use it. I have 3 Bass VIs (Squier, Burns Barracuda and Eastwood Hooky) and play Cure/Joy Division/New Order type bass in a post punk/goth band where, even though the bass is prominent in the mix, by the time I've applied the appropriate amount of EQ, drive, chorus and delay using my Line6 Helix the different basses are virtually indistinguishable from each other.

 

I've now abandoned my Squier in favour of the wider necked (and much more expensive) Eastwood Hooky.

[Waddo Soqable]

There's also a screw in the middle of the vibrato tailpiece you can tighten right up, which I've done seeing as I'm not really using the trem capability at the mo, this firms the unit up greatly.

The sleeving of the pegs as above would be a good plan and easy to achieve , tho again not found bridge wobbling an issue on mine. 

The pu's to me are absolutely fine, and no point replacing, in my world at least... I always put this thing thru a certain amount of effects anyway and don't envisage ever really hearing the un-altered bare sound of the pickups as such. 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Waddo Soqable

[northcountrybob]

Yeah I do plan on using some bushings on the bridge, either on the stock one or whatever ends up in there down the line. I have a tele that has an offset bridge and bigsby. The bridge is held by copper tape wrapped around the posts up to the right diameter. I have a digital caliper somewhere so that's easy and cheap enough to do. 

 

Shame it seems to affect the trem so much! I'd quite like to use the trem. Maybe I can see how it goes, or find a replacement spring or something? 

[BigRedX]

For me the vibrato unit problem was two-fold.

 

1. Once I had fitted the heavier E and A strings the various forces required to cause the vibrato mechanism to function, and even more importantly to return to the correct pitch, simply became too great. Ideally heavier strings should mean a stiffer spring and that would make the mechanism even more rigid. 

 

2. Even with the original lighter strings the degree of "wobble" was still so subtle that it was essentially lost in the band mix.

 

I had exactly the same problem with the Burns Barracuda, which has a different (more Strat-like) vibrato mechanism.

[Waddo Soqable]

I wonder if a Bigsby type trem would work better on a bass 6, just thinking more generic B6 rather than the Squier specifically. I'm quite tempted to do a bodge/build VI, rickenbacker ish maybe 😁

[Waddo Soqable]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

For me the vibrato unit problem was two-fold.

 

1. Once I had fitted the heavier E and A strings the various forces required to cause the vibrato mechanism to function, and even more importantly to return to the correct pitch, simply became too great. Ideally heavier strings should mean a stiffer spring and that would make the mechanism even more rigid. 

 

2. Even with the original lighter strings the degree of "wobble" was still so subtle that it was essentially lost in the band mix.

 

I had exactly the same problem with the Burns Barracuda, which has a different (more Strat-like) vibrato mechanism.

Possibly that's why they supply the thing with those lighter strings to begin with? 

I wonder what the original 60s spec strings were when these came out, as a Fender Vl.. 

[Waddo Soqable]

Out of interest I've ordered a set of the Fender 24-100 which I'll fit the whole set of (rather than just the thicker E )  and see if they are an improvement, should supposedly help the low E intonation at very least, according to theory. 

[northcountrybob]

Awesome. 

I'm picking up the Bass VI at the end of the week. I've got a bit of a deal on a mastery bridge which I'll probably go for. Not much more cash than the Staytrem and without the 20 week lead time. If it's overkill I can always put that on my jaguar down the line so it's not really wasted on the Bass VI. 

 

I also stumbled onto Ryan 60 Cycle Hum's video about problems with springs on the Jag/Jazz American Pro II Panorama Trem. Fender changed the pivot point on those, and that means the standard spring compresses a lot more making them rubbish with heavier strings (10's and 11's up). Their fix was to use a die spring, heavier duty, rectangular wire. It's not a drop in replacement as those parts won't sit on the stock spring perch, but there are lot of options for spring strength in those. 

 

I'll probably move the trem from my jaguar onto the Bass VI, and I've ordered a couple of die springs and an couple of knurled brass thumb nuts which may work instead of the stock perch. Again, if it's OTT on the Bass VI it'll eventually end up back on the Jag, so nothing really lost.  But maybe it'll help the Bass VI trem stability. I do worry that if the forces are enough between the spring and the strings, the trem arm will just bend itself all over the shop! 

[Waddo Soqable]

32 minutes ago, northcountrybob said:

Awesome. 

I'm picking up the Bass VI at the end of the week. I've got a bit of a deal on a mastery bridge which I'll probably go for. Not much more cash than the Staytrem and without the 20 week lead time. If it's overkill I can always put that on my jaguar down the line so it's not really wasted on the Bass VI. 

 

I also stumbled onto Ryan 60 Cycle Hum's video about problems with springs on the Jag/Jazz American Pro II Panorama Trem. Fender changed the pivot point on those, and that means the standard spring compresses a lot more making them rubbish with heavier strings (10's and 11's up). Their fix was to use a die spring, heavier duty, rectangular wire. It's not a drop in replacement as those parts won't sit on the stock spring perch, but there are lot of options for spring strength in those. 

 

I'll probably move the trem from my jaguar onto the Bass VI, and I've ordered a couple of die springs and an couple of knurled brass thumb nuts which may work instead of the stock perch. Again, if it's OTT on the Bass VI it'll eventually end up back on the Jag, so nothing really lost.  But maybe it'll help the Bass VI trem stability. I do worry that if the forces are enough between the spring and the strings, the trem arm will just bend itself all over the shop! 

I reckon it'd have to be pretty lock solid to bend your trem arm! 

Anyway stick some pics on here when it arrives, be interesting to see the various bits and bobs you're getting extra too 👍

[northcountrybob]

It's arrived! 

 

Definitely needs some work. The break angle over the bridge is as low as people point out in other posts. The bottom E isn't sitting in that bridge slot very securely. The neck relief on this thing is pretty savage so the action is high even though the bridge is sat low. Hopefully all fixable! 

 

Needs some new pots. The pickups vary in volume quite a lot in the different combinations and the strange switch is a bit meh.... might research some electronics options. 

 

I really want to make this thing a cool unusual gigging bass! Might keep a bit of a diary here and I imagine it'll take some learning and assistance to sort it all out! 

[Waddo Soqable]

These pretty much always need some work according to more or less everyone who's had them, mine included.

I'd think as far as I can see here you'd be wanting to shim the neck for starters. I didn't on mine but needed to give the truss rod a significant tweaking to take some of the "relief" out... Unlike for instance the Squier PJ I got that I could've literally just tuned up and done a gig with it straight out of the box. 

That said they're great fun to play when sorted so worth it imho. 

[northcountrybob]

My springs and stuff arrived.

 

The yellow and blue springs are 16mm outer / 8mm inner diameter, 25mm long uncompressed JIS die springs. The blue one is pretty stiff. The yellow I can compress a bit. Not compared them to the stock spring yet. Waiting for some more things before taking it apart. 
 

I spent ages looking for “articulating spring perch” parts, which I think is what the usual brass thimble is. Looks like a suspension part but I couldn’t track anything suitable down. I thought maybe model car suspension part or something… meh

 

Anyway… I got a brass thumb nut with a high shoulder. 16mm wide outer, 8mm wide shoulder. M4 threaded. Also got an M3 version which is proportionally smaller. The fit is pretty loose. Not sure what the thread is on the stock screw but it’s easy enough to find M4 bolts. I’m assuming it’ll be metric rather than imperial????

 

 

Edited June 17, 2023 by northcountrybob

[ezbass]

The authority on set up for this style of offset Fender seems to be Mike Adams, aka, Puisheen. Check out his YouTube channel. https://youtube.com/@Puisheen

[northcountrybob]

Cheers mate. 
That’s who I found the spring idea from. That chap and that 60 Cycle Ryan Bruce fella. Although they went the route of machining the old perch in a lathe. I don’t have an immediate access to a lathe so tried to find something off the shelf. The thumb nut is what I’ll experiment with before finding a lathe. 
 

Ive had a read of mikes articles on the Bass VI mods. It’s really helpful. 

[northcountrybob]

I got round to taking the trem off. The stock classic vibe spring feels about as strong as the yellow spring. Yellow spring may be a bit tighter and compress more though. 

Interestingly the thimble/perch in the stock CV isn't the typical cone shape found in US offsets. It's much more like the thumb nuts I found, and also M4 threaded. 

 

Only problem here is the hole in the bottom plate to accommodate the spring is ~15mm, and not 16mm like the outer diameter of the yellow and blue springs... so that would need opening out. 

 

I plan on getting the AVRI trem off my Jaguar which is at my old mans place next week. 

 

I've had a think about the electronics and I think I'm going to replace the strangle switch with a series/parallel switch. I also think I'm going to replace the tone pot with a kind of passive varitone. Two strangle value caps, three high-cut value caps, and a bypass (tone off). 

 

Got a few neck shims on order! 

 

 

[Waddo Soqable]

Interesting to see the innards of it, I've not taken mine apart as I've not especially been bothered about the trem other than to tighten the adj screw, you'd think just to look at them that the yellow spring would have much more rigidity than the stock item. 

I found the hi pass/strangle switch quite useful myself tbh. 

[Andyjr1515]

Yes, your approach is the right one @northcountrybob - your first job in the set up is fitting the shims to sort that action out.  The intonation sharpening of, particularly, bass notes is caused by the tension increasing as you press the string down onto the fret - basically, you are bending the string like a lead guitar player, albeit vertically (and not as much  ... and much more elegantly than a lead guitarist  ).  So the action height directly affects the intonation.  And neck angle, of course, directly affects the action height.

 

[northcountrybob]

Cheers @Andyjr1515 I did have a quick go at adjusting the truss rod last night which got it more playable but as I know I'll be shimming the thing I haven't really put more effort into the setup just yet. It'll be the first time I've shimmed something, so we'll see how that goes! 

 

@Waddo Soqable Yeah I quite like the idea of the strangle switch. With the rotary switch I intend to use a couple of 0.0068uf caps to give me a bit more low end when when one is in circuit, and 0.0034uf when both are in series, back to the stock strangle. At least the control plate is easy to take off so experimenting should be easy! The other 3 positions on the switch will start out as something link 0.022uf, 0.047uf and 0.1uf for high end roll off. See how that sounds then take it from there. 

[Andyjr1515]

Just now, northcountrybob said:

Cheers @Andyjr1515 I did have a quick go at adjusting the truss rod last night which got it more playable but as I know I'll be shimming the thing I haven't really put more effort into the setup just yet. It'll be the first time I've shimmed something, so we'll see how that goes! 

You will find that a teeny thickness of (tapered) shim makes a huge difference.  I'm sure you are aware but, for others reading, the thick end of the tapered shim will want to be at the bridge-end of the neck pocket to correct very high action.  Whose shims are you using?

 

By the way, adjust the relief back to 'just perceptible movement at the 7th when fretting at the 1st and 16th' before you fit the shims.

[northcountrybob]

Cheers.

 

I got a couple of shims from Crimson guitars. I wanted a shim that took up as much of the pocket as possible. It may not be a great fit, but we'll see. They were probably a bit expensive for what they are but much cheaper than Stewmac, and I didn't want to use a bar just at the back of the pocket. Just looking at it I thought a full contact shim just made more sense... might fill the back of the pocket with something at some point once the shim has had a test fit.

 

I recently got a set of feeler gauges to help me keep an eye on my stingray neck. It made sense to straighten the neck out to a decent point of relief before removing the neck and adding a shim. Good to know my thinking is along the right lines as this is a bit of a first for me. It's also handy to know how big a difference a small shim make, so I know what to expect! I appreciate that. 

[Andyjr1515]

6 hours ago, northcountrybob said:

I got a couple of shims from Crimson guitars. I wanted a shim that took up as much of the pocket as possible

Those should work fine