Does your guitar player use backline or just an amp&cab modeller / DI out from his pedalboard, through the PA?

[Al Krow]

Just wondering what folk's experience of amp modelling of their guitar players is with their PA? Guys I've worked with have tried going through FoH, partly with a view to getting a balanced FoH sound and enable us to all use IEMs, but typically get quite a brittle / harsh sound if they are going into the PA via something like a Helix Stomp or a DI out from their pedalboard. The best compromise seems to be to mic up their cabs and use their rigs as a stage monitor. 

 

Be interested to hear where your bands / guitar players have landed on this one?

Edited June 18, 2023 by Al Krow
Typos

[Mykesbass]

Last band the guitarist (young lad, full on gear geek) got a Kemper and powered speaker. I was sceptical but it sounded great.

[JapanAxe]

I have been depping on bass (sometimes) and rhythm guitar (other times) in a tribute band where all the regular guys use Kempers. Both guitarist sound absolutely stellar, having done the hard yards in setting up their sounds beforehand.

[walshy]

14 minutes ago, JapanAxe said:

I have been depping on bass (sometimes) and rhythm guitar (other times) in a tribute band where all the regular guys use Kempers. Both guitarist sound absolutely stellar, having done the hard yards in setting up their sounds beforehand.

This is the difference right here, put the time in and it sounds epic. Played with a fair few guitarists now who do it this way, all sound cracking

[WinterMute]

Both, onstage monitor is an FRFR cab with a parallel feed sent to the PA from a Helix floor unit.

[Franticsmurf]

Currently our guitarist uses pedals and an amp, but we're not always using FOH for every gig. To be  fair, it's a great sound and not too loud. I think it would take him a lot if time and money to recreate it without and amp. 

[xgsjx]

Me, the keys & the drums (e kit) all go through the PA. Guitarist is determined to use a wee laney 1x10 & being an old rocker, thinks that the sound he wants can only be gotten from using an amp.

Ive played with a few guitarists that use Kemper modelling & another who, like me, plays a virtual rig on his laptop & they sound far better. 

[Al Krow]

13 hours ago, walshy said:

This is the difference right here, put the time in and it sounds epic. Played with a fair few guitarists now who do it this way, all sound cracking

A Kemper would be great, but quite a high-end unit, our fella is going to need to save up to get something in that league. 

 

Would Helix be able to cut it? 

[JapanAxe]

23 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

A Kemper would be great, but quite a high-end unit, our fella is going to need to save up to get something in that league. 

 

Would Helix be able to cut it? 

All of the different amp modelling units have their adherents. I was looking at the HX stomp but I dread the option overload that comes with programmable do-everything gadgets.

[dmccombe7]

One band the guitarist uses a Freidman amp and a 2x12 cab which i'm not sure mfr.

Other band is a Marshall amp and either one or two 412 cabs depending on gig size.

Dave

[xgsjx]

40 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

A Kemper would be great, but quite a high-end unit, our fella is going to need to save up to get something in that league. 

 

Would Helix be able to cut it? 

There’s loads of guitar preamps that can easily do the job. Sansamp & Two Notes make great affordable examples. 

[xgsjx]

6 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

One band the guitarist uses a Freidman amp and a 2x12 cab which i'm not sure mfr.

Other band is a Marshall amp and either one or two 412 cabs depending on gig size.

Dave

“That sounds like fun”

Said no one ever.  🤣

[dmccombe7]

4 minutes ago, xgsjx said:

“That sounds like fun”

Said no one ever.  🤣

Think i'm missing something here ?

Dave

[pete.young]

We had a lot of success doing this with a TC Electronic G-System a few years ago now.

 

If you're going to do it, it's got to be all or nothing IMHO - loud valve amps on the stage were the cause of many sound problems so using them a monitors is counterproductive. Likewise any kind of FRFR cab with a volume control that can be turned up mid-gig.

[Dad3353]

We're Luddite dinosaurs here, using vintage Mesa and Hiwatt amps through cabs for backline, even in pubs or the small venues we play. Our most recent outing had me take e-drums, but even the high-end kits can't compare with an acoustic kit. The big feature of all of these solutions is the control of overall volume and balance, but being musically aware and reasonable makes even this advantage rather moot. I can't get a realistic jazz brush swirl, or timpani-stick crescendos, from an e-kit, and our bass amp has a volume control that works. It's the only control used; no need for pedals, tap-dancing or programming; just fingers and ears. We'll not be investing in modelling any time soon. 

[mcnach]

16 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Just wondering what folk's experience of amp modelling of their guitar players is with their PA@? Guys I've worked with have tried going through FoH, partly with a view to getting a balanced FoH sound and enable us to all use IEMs, but typically get quite a brittle / harsh sound if they are going into the PA via something like a Helix Stomp or a DI out from their pedalboard. The best compromise seems to be to mic up their cabs and use their rigs as a stage monitor. 

 

Be interested to hear where your bands / guitar players have landed on this one?

 

I was in a band for a few years with a guy who used a little cheap Zoom unit, forget which one. Sounded great out front from what I coud hear, and it definitely sounded fine on the monitors. Need to engage the speaker simulation especially if using overdrive. Something like a Helix should sound pretty good!

[mcnach]

16 hours ago, walshy said:

This is the difference right here, put the time in and it sounds epic. Played with a fair few guitarists now who do it this way, all sound cracking

 

I'd get the cables checked/replaced

 

 

[xgsjx]

2 hours ago, dmccombe7 said:

Think i'm missing something here ?

Dave

Sorry. If you’re playing festivals, then a 4x12 or two is fine for visual impact, but if it’s in the rehearsal room or a venue, then it’s just an bit overkill. 
 

If you’re trying to get a good controlled sound, then it’s not gonna be easy with a 4x12 in the room unless the guitarist is really on the ball. Your chap may well be, but most guitarists I’ve played with are only interested in their sound being the most prominent (not all though, just most). 

[dmccombe7]

1 minute ago, xgsjx said:

Sorry. If you’re playing festivals, then a 4x12 or two is fine for visual impact, but if it’s in the rehearsal room or a venue, then it’s just an bit overkill. 
 

If you’re trying to get a good controlled sound, then it’s not gonna be easy with a 4x12 in the room unless the guitarist is really on the ball. Your chap may well be, but most guitarists I’ve played with are only interested in their sound being the most prominent (not all though, just most). 

IHear what you're saying but i'm pretty lucky that both bands the guitarists are very controlled and we balance stage volume against the drums.

I generally dont have any issue with volume creep other than from soundcheck to actually playing the gig. We play lots of gigs with just vocal PA's in both bands.

Its the same drummer in both bands and he has a tendency to play a little bit quieter during soundcheck than the gig itself meaning the guitarist and myself have to notch it up very slightly when we start the gig.

Was a nuisance at first but i've gotten used to it over the years.

Guitarist with the Marshall rig typically runs his master volume at 2 or less. That's the punk band which plays smaller gigs but he loves the tone from his Marshall rig. Have to admit i do like it with a Les Paul which is my fav guitar tone. 

Personally i've looked at the Kempers for bass but i hate fiddling with programmes etc. Much prefer to just plug in and play.

 Dave

[Dad3353]

Much the same as above ^^^^^^. We don't have budget for fancy stuff, but even if we had, we still prefer 'old school'. Old dogs, new tricks, perhaps. 

[tauzero]

One guitarist uses head and cab, the other uses pedalboard amp feeding the PA.

[Boodang]

We've just bought a Behringer XR18 and gone full in ear monitors, so between the Ekit and the IEMs we have a silent stage (at least as far as amps are concerned).

The guitarist has always used Zoom pedals to get his sound, so no change for him by going amp-less. I use an SWR electric blue amp just as a valve di.

The only speakers we bring to a gig now are foh. The guitarist has spent a long time honing his tone from the pedals and it works perfectly. Plus, I have to say, the processing power of the xr18 has helped tremendously and we're getting our best, and most controllable, sound.

[scalpy]

Just done two gigs on Saturday. In the afternoon the guitarist used a fender combo and pedalboard, in the evening he used his kemper. Kemper ate the amp for breakfast. We videoed both, it was fun having amps onstage for the afternoon, but the sound is clearly worse and everyone was struggling with monitoring. In the evening the FOH sound is much clearer, even we’d added 3 horn players and a percussionist. The guitar and bass (both ampless) sounded tighter and more focussed, the vocals sound way clearer and monitoring (in ears both gigs) was much easier.

[police squad]

I use a vox tonelab LE for guitar, in both my band and my duo. Works great.

and depping on bass using my normal bass rig, everyone has IEM, so the bass amp isnt very loud. I could probably ditch it altogether and use my Tech21 pedal

IEMs have really changed my whole perception. I'm loving it

[cheddatom]

Our guitarist used an original POD for years, now he's using a Nux modeller, always straight into the PA He always sounds amazing!