Al Krow Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 (edited) Just wondering what folk's experience of amp modelling of their guitar players is with their PA? Guys I've worked with have tried going through FoH, partly with a view to getting a balanced FoH sound and enable us to all use IEMs, but typically get quite a brittle / harsh sound if they are going into the PA via something like a Helix Stomp or a DI out from their pedalboard. The best compromise seems to be to mic up their cabs and use their rigs as a stage monitor. Be interested to hear where your bands / guitar players have landed on this one? Edited June 18, 2023 by Al Krow Typos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykesbass Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 Last band the guitarist (young lad, full on gear geek) got a Kemper and powered speaker. I was sceptical but it sounded great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 I have been depping on bass (sometimes) and rhythm guitar (other times) in a tribute band where all the regular guys use Kempers. Both guitarist sound absolutely stellar, having done the hard yards in setting up their sounds beforehand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshy Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 14 minutes ago, JapanAxe said: I have been depping on bass (sometimes) and rhythm guitar (other times) in a tribute band where all the regular guys use Kempers. Both guitarist sound absolutely stellar, having done the hard yards in setting up their sounds beforehand. This is the difference right here, put the time in and it sounds epic. Played with a fair few guitarists now who do it this way, all sound cracking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterMute Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 Both, onstage monitor is an FRFR cab with a parallel feed sent to the PA from a Helix floor unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franticsmurf Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 Currently our guitarist uses pedals and an amp, but we're not always using FOH for every gig. To be fair, it's a great sound and not too loud. I think it would take him a lot if time and money to recreate it without and amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 Me, the keys & the drums (e kit) all go through the PA. Guitarist is determined to use a wee laney 1x10 & being an old rocker, thinks that the sound he wants can only be gotten from using an amp. Ive played with a few guitarists that use Kemper modelling & another who, like me, plays a virtual rig on his laptop & they sound far better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 13 hours ago, walshy said: This is the difference right here, put the time in and it sounds epic. Played with a fair few guitarists now who do it this way, all sound cracking A Kemper would be great, but quite a high-end unit, our fella is going to need to save up to get something in that league. Would Helix be able to cut it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 23 minutes ago, Al Krow said: A Kemper would be great, but quite a high-end unit, our fella is going to need to save up to get something in that league. Would Helix be able to cut it? All of the different amp modelling units have their adherents. I was looking at the HX stomp but I dread the option overload that comes with programmable do-everything gadgets. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 One band the guitarist uses a Freidman amp and a 2x12 cab which i'm not sure mfr. Other band is a Marshall amp and either one or two 412 cabs depending on gig size. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 40 minutes ago, Al Krow said: A Kemper would be great, but quite a high-end unit, our fella is going to need to save up to get something in that league. Would Helix be able to cut it? There’s loads of guitar preamps that can easily do the job. Sansamp & Two Notes make great affordable examples. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 6 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said: One band the guitarist uses a Freidman amp and a 2x12 cab which i'm not sure mfr. Other band is a Marshall amp and either one or two 412 cabs depending on gig size. Dave “That sounds like fun” Said no one ever. 🤣 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, xgsjx said: “That sounds like fun” Said no one ever. 🤣 Think i'm missing something here ? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 We had a lot of success doing this with a TC Electronic G-System a few years ago now. If you're going to do it, it's got to be all or nothing IMHO - loud valve amps on the stage were the cause of many sound problems so using them a monitors is counterproductive. Likewise any kind of FRFR cab with a volume control that can be turned up mid-gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 We're Luddite dinosaurs here, using vintage Mesa and Hiwatt amps through cabs for backline, even in pubs or the small venues we play. Our most recent outing had me take e-drums, but even the high-end kits can't compare with an acoustic kit. The big feature of all of these solutions is the control of overall volume and balance, but being musically aware and reasonable makes even this advantage rather moot. I can't get a realistic jazz brush swirl, or timpani-stick crescendos, from an e-kit, and our bass amp has a volume control that works. It's the only control used; no need for pedals, tap-dancing or programming; just fingers and ears. We'll not be investing in modelling any time soon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 16 hours ago, Al Krow said: Just wondering what folk's experience of amp modelling of their guitar players is with their PA@? Guys I've worked with have tried going through FoH, partly with a view to getting a balanced FoH sound and enable us to all use IEMs, but typically get quite a brittle / harsh sound if they are going into the PA via something like a Helix Stomp or a DI out from their pedalboard. The best compromise seems to be to mic up their cabs and use their rigs as a stage monitor. Be interested to hear where your bands / guitar players have landed on this one? I was in a band for a few years with a guy who used a little cheap Zoom unit, forget which one. Sounded great out front from what I coud hear, and it definitely sounded fine on the monitors. Need to engage the speaker simulation especially if using overdrive. Something like a Helix should sound pretty good! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 16 hours ago, walshy said: This is the difference right here, put the time in and it sounds epic. Played with a fair few guitarists now who do it this way, all sound cracking I'd get the cables checked/replaced 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 2 hours ago, dmccombe7 said: Think i'm missing something here ? Dave Sorry. If you’re playing festivals, then a 4x12 or two is fine for visual impact, but if it’s in the rehearsal room or a venue, then it’s just an bit overkill. If you’re trying to get a good controlled sound, then it’s not gonna be easy with a 4x12 in the room unless the guitarist is really on the ball. Your chap may well be, but most guitarists I’ve played with are only interested in their sound being the most prominent (not all though, just most). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 1 minute ago, xgsjx said: Sorry. If you’re playing festivals, then a 4x12 or two is fine for visual impact, but if it’s in the rehearsal room or a venue, then it’s just an bit overkill. If you’re trying to get a good controlled sound, then it’s not gonna be easy with a 4x12 in the room unless the guitarist is really on the ball. Your chap may well be, but most guitarists I’ve played with are only interested in their sound being the most prominent (not all though, just most). IHear what you're saying but i'm pretty lucky that both bands the guitarists are very controlled and we balance stage volume against the drums. I generally dont have any issue with volume creep other than from soundcheck to actually playing the gig. We play lots of gigs with just vocal PA's in both bands. Its the same drummer in both bands and he has a tendency to play a little bit quieter during soundcheck than the gig itself meaning the guitarist and myself have to notch it up very slightly when we start the gig. Was a nuisance at first but i've gotten used to it over the years. Guitarist with the Marshall rig typically runs his master volume at 2 or less. That's the punk band which plays smaller gigs but he loves the tone from his Marshall rig. Have to admit i do like it with a Les Paul which is my fav guitar tone. Personally i've looked at the Kempers for bass but i hate fiddling with programmes etc. Much prefer to just plug in and play. Dave 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 Much the same as above ^^^^^^. We don't have budget for fancy stuff, but even if we had, we still prefer 'old school'. Old dogs, new tricks, perhaps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 One guitarist uses head and cab, the other uses pedalboard amp feeding the PA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boodang Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 We've just bought a Behringer XR18 and gone full in ear monitors, so between the Ekit and the IEMs we have a silent stage (at least as far as amps are concerned). The guitarist has always used Zoom pedals to get his sound, so no change for him by going amp-less. I use an SWR electric blue amp just as a valve di. The only speakers we bring to a gig now are foh. The guitarist has spent a long time honing his tone from the pedals and it works perfectly. Plus, I have to say, the processing power of the xr18 has helped tremendously and we're getting our best, and most controllable, sound. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scalpy Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 Just done two gigs on Saturday. In the afternoon the guitarist used a fender combo and pedalboard, in the evening he used his kemper. Kemper ate the amp for breakfast. We videoed both, it was fun having amps onstage for the afternoon, but the sound is clearly worse and everyone was struggling with monitoring. In the evening the FOH sound is much clearer, even we’d added 3 horn players and a percussionist. The guitar and bass (both ampless) sounded tighter and more focussed, the vocals sound way clearer and monitoring (in ears both gigs) was much easier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
police squad Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 I use a vox tonelab LE for guitar, in both my band and my duo. Works great. and depping on bass using my normal bass rig, everyone has IEM, so the bass amp isnt very loud. I could probably ditch it altogether and use my Tech21 pedal IEMs have really changed my whole perception. I'm loving it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 Our guitarist used an original POD for years, now he's using a Nux modeller, always straight into the PA He always sounds amazing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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