Cleanest amp?

[Marty Forrer]

I have an Acoustic Image Clarus head. Very clean, in fact too clean for slab (for my taste) so I only use it for upright. I have had Genzler Magellan 350 and 800 and they are very clean too.

[Downunderwonder]

On 18/06/2023 at 23:59, Phil Starr said:

Clean but not sterile

You are free to not criticize but to me that's an oxymoronic expression.

 

Clean is the sound of your pickups amplified.

 

People call that sterile if they don't like it and clean if they do.

 

Anything the amp adds is no longer clean. It's dirty, unclean, no longer sterile.

 

So what does clean but not sterile mean? It means just dirty enough that it doesn't sound sterile.

 

Most often it means a lack of obvious dirt but noticeably raunchy in a good way. When I was hanging on the opposite side of the Atlantic bass forum it was common for those tones to be raved about as clean. There were also a lot more threads on what the best XYZ was for Metal.

 

I like just a hair on that gets a little bit raunchy and not too loud when I dig in. Lots of amps can do that, as can pedals.

[Downunderwonder]

So, clean amp is any power amp so long as you aren't over driving it.

 

Clean pedal or preamp is most of them when you keep the input gain under control.

 

 

[Gwilym]

The way i see it is that "clean" is not necessary a flat frequency response, but the signal is not distorted.

So one "clean" pre-amp may sound more pleasing to the ear than another preamp that is also "clean" but with a different baked in frequency response. That difference might be described as warm or sterile etc.

[krispn]

The Fender 800Pro head is a clean machine! It has no drive built in and looks like it's based on the Thunderfunk amps. While there are three bands of semi-parametric EQ this section of the amp is defeatable (although Bass and Treble remain in the circuit), it has built in compression and it's power section is massive sounding - it's more old school so the amp is about 14kg due to the toroidal transformers (I think it's Class A/B).

 

More details here...

 

 

[BigRedX]

IME bass guitars require a degree of dirt to make them sit properly in most band mixes. The first time I heard a selection of isolated bass guitar tracks from classic songs I was surprised by just how much drive/distortion they had on them even though in the mix I had always thought that they sounded clean. 

 

These days the main reason for having a "clean" bass amp is that you want to apply a specific drive sound to the bass using some other device and don't want the sound of the amp to interfere with that, and TBH in that case you are probably best off with either an FRFR or going direct into the PA.

 

Maybe if the OP could supply some examples of what they consider to be a classic "clean" bass sound that would help?

Edited June 23, 2023 by BigRedX

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Clean is far more a matter of the speaker than the amp. Where amps are concerned 1% distortion is high. Where speakers are concerned 10% distortion is within the normal range. The cleanest amp in the world will still sound dirty with speakers that are dirty.

[uk_lefty]

Thanks everyone for the input, I didn't realise I'd open a can of worms on what "clean" means but I guess I hadn't thought it all through completely. 

 

For me "clean" means the glassy, hi-fi sounding type. The opposite of a growly, driven amp that there seems to be so much focus on in the general sales market.

 

There's plenty of suggestions here to keep my secondhand searches full for a long time. Thank you

Edited June 25, 2023 by uk_lefty

[msb]

Bergantino Forte , I have the original model with the compressor. Clean and transparent , modern hifi , with some serious slam. The more recent model has a drive channel instead of the compressor. 
Very simple , stripped down amp , very easy to dial in.

Recently I did pick up a wonderful tube pre and have been using the back end of my Forte to power it.

[Baloney Balderdash]

I think a few people confuse, or at least need to define, the difference between neutral, clean and sterile, cause, while those words do share some overlapping connotations and sometimes annotations, they definitely do not have the exact same meaning/denotation, as well as they, especially in the context of music amplification, rarely share the exact same annotations. 

  

Edited June 26, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[Downunderwonder]

8 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

I think a few people confuse, or at least need to define, the difference between neutral, clean and sterile, cause those words definitely do not mean the same.

 

Simple.

 

Neutral means requires no external EQ to get to where you need to get with your cab.

 

Clean means an absence of introduced distortion.

 

Sterile means "I don't care for a clean sound I need some introduced distortion".

[chris_b]

All amps can sound clean. . . . if you run them at half power.

 

You want loud and clean? That's what 1000 watt amps are for.

[BigRedX]

On 25/06/2023 at 07:59, uk_lefty said:

For me "clean" means the glassy, hi-fi sounding type. The opposite of a growly, driven amp that there seems to be so much focus on in the general sales market.

 

I still think you need to post some examples of what you consider to be clean. Lots of what I always thought were clean bass sounds turned out to have at least a degree of drive to them once all the other instruments had been stripped away. Thos isolated bass tracks on YouTube are certainly an ear opener.

[itu]

On 26/06/2023 at 12:49, chris_b said:

All amps can sound clean. . . . if you run them at half power.

This is one very good point. Most amps are clean until they are driven to their limits. @Bill Fitzmaurice commented also about cabs. If these two are clean at high volume levels, we can call the set non-distorted. N'est-ce pas?

 

There are lots of descriptive words, that are not standardized in any way, and I think sterile means something connected to hospitals, doesn't it? There are words that are freely used in music, and try to represent sound, but most of them are like quotes from wine reviews: "round and fruity". Doesn't mean a thing.

 

THD, response, sensitivity, loudness... I know, too complicated to understand.

- My amp sounds a bit sterile, but growly!

- Say what?

[Dan Dare]

PJB are clean. Too clean for my tastes. I like and use their cabs, but their amps leave me a bit cold.

[Stub Mandrel]

I always feel Markbass amps are very transparent. Not for me but very popular.

[joel406]

The Mesa Subway D800+ was the cleanest of the line. And if you've never heard of or tried an Epifani... you are missing out.

[Hellzero]

On 26/06/2023 at 11:49, chris_b said:

All amps can sound clean. . . . if you run them at half power.

 

You want loud and clean? That's what 1000 watt amps are for.

Again, the best answer, this is the only reason I use powerful amps, my favourite right now being the brand new GR Bass AeroTech Full Carbon Combo 800 Watts coupled to the GR Bass AeroTech Full Carbon 112+ cabinet.

 

Lightweight, powerful and clean.

[Lfalex v1.1]

On 27/06/2023 at 22:33, Stub Mandrel said:

I always feel Markbass amps are very transparent. Not for me but very popular.

 

Having recently purchased an S450, I must say I agree.

Much less of a baked-in "house" sound than a Trace Elliot, for example. 

Partnered with a Schroeder 21012L, it's a very well- ordered sound with no obvious gremlins that need need to be EQ'd away.

In fact,  I'm working on trying to dirty it up a bit. Did a reasonable job  via Multi FX with a compressor/ blendable drive / SVT amp sim (no cab).

Reckon I'll end up digging out an external preamp or 2... I've an Ampeg SVP-PRO  that'll do the job just nicely. 

Edited July 1, 2023 by Lfalex v1.1

[Aalin]

You could always go at Talkbass on the double bass side to ask, because generaly double bass player use the most cleanest amp of the world.

https://www.talkbass.com/forums/amps-mics-pickups-db.4/

 

[msb]

Once you’re up to snare drum levels it sounds electric.

[BigRedX]

Also depends what genre you play. Many of the Psychobilly bands I've shared a stage with have huge valve-driven amps for double bass.

[msb]

They do love their SVT and 810 rigs. And they sound electric. 
 

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

On 26/06/2023 at 05:49, chris_b said:

All amps can sound clean. . . . if you run them at half power.

 

You want loud and clean? That's what 1000 watt amps are for.

At half power you only have 3dB of headroom, whereas what you need for very clean is 10dB. That means running at 1/10 power. That makes it seem like you need a lot of power, but the reality is that on average it's rare to be putting out more than 20 watts. If that were not the case generations of players would not have been able to gig with an Ampeg B15.

 

Where 1,000 watt amps are concerned that tends to be a specmanship situation. Very few can actually maintain that for more than a few milliseconds. If you look at amps with honest specs, PA amps from the likes of Crown, QSC and the like, take note of their power draw. It's typically measured at 1/8 to 1/12 power. That reflects their actual long term output at very low distortion.

 

Note that where the 30 watt Ampeg is concerned the reason it was gig worthy is the natural compression of valves. Without compression it takes a lot more power to stay clean. By the same token using a compressor with SS allows a lot less power.

[uk_lefty]

I think I've found a solution.... For my interpretation of "clean" at least.

 

https://www.basschat.co.uk/topic/480809-nad-swr-working-pro-10/