Fretless frustration arrrghh!

[YouMa]

I have recently tried to make an impact on myself with fretless, it's lined. I have a massive love hate relationship with this thing. My normal lying around for noodling fretted bass has gone back in his case for the last 2 months and just now feels bizarre and club like when I pick it up. Whenever I play the fretless it either sounds like tuneless mud or sometimes I get flashes of brilliance and go to bed buzzing. One thing I have noticed is I am a very busy player on my fretted bass but the fretless has really slowed me down. I try to play like karn rather than Jaco. Did anybody else find this? Also any tips on making the transition? I did not realise what a totally different instrument it is. Sometimes I turn the drum machine off and just listen to the beauty of the wood against the strings. I have no problem getting the Mwah though as I use a lot of vibrato on guitar anyway.

[Frank Blank]

20 minutes ago, YouMa said:

Sometimes I turn the drum machine off and just listen to the beauty of the wood against the strings.

 

...and that is the route to your fretless place. Forget Mick Karn, forget Jaco, forget busy playing, follow the last seven words of your sentence.

[Burns-bass]

Yep, Frank has got this right.

 

What helped me (upright bass, similarly Fretless!) was/is playing along with the real player. Do a I ii v in all 12 keys and repeat it but do variations.

 

I’ll do root notes, then 7th chords, then up and down the scales, then I’ll do position swaps.

 

it sounds boring but it’s a great way to get your intonation sorted and make rapid progress.

[miles'tone]

44 minutes ago, YouMa said:

I have recently tried to make an impact on myself with fretless, it's lined. I have a massive love hate relationship with this thing. My normal lying around for noodling fretted bass has gone back in his case for the last 2 months and just now feels bizarre and club like when I pick it up. Whenever I play the fretless it either sounds like tuneless mud or sometimes I get flashes of brilliance and go to bed buzzing. One thing I have noticed is I am a very busy player on my fretted bass but the fretless has really slowed me down. I try to play like karn rather than Jaco. Did anybody else find this? Also any tips on making the transition? I did not realise what a totally different instrument it is. Sometimes I turn the drum machine off and just listen to the beauty of the wood against the strings. I have no problem getting the Mwah though as I use a lot of vibrato on guitar anyway.

Yes, and Frank speaks wise words. The fretless tone is mesmerising and to me It's easier to express/entertain yourself with far less work, rather than fishing around for extra notes on a fretted to keep it interesting. 

Depends on the situation of course but generally this.

[Linus27]

You shouldn't really have too much difficulty transitioning to a fretless from a fretted as long as your technique and ear are good. I'm not saying you have bad technique but a player who has weak or lazy technique will struggle moving to a fretless and a fretless will really highlight this as theres no hiding. You should approach playing a fretless no different to a fretted bass, you play them the same despite having a different voice, personality and expression but bad technique will show, be it a fretted bass or fretless bass. The other thing is it's really really important to get very familiar with a fretless fretboard. They do differ and just because you have lines, doesn't mean it's the correct spot to fret. So learn your fretboard and make sure your fretted technique is strong and the transition to fretless should be painless. Start slow and stick at it.

[TheGreek]

I've gone down this route and tripped up a few times....perseverance is key. Learn to love the tones and the bass will show you what to play.

[YouMa]

5 minutes ago, Linus27 said:

You shouldn't really have too much difficulty transitioning to a fretless from a fretted as long as your technique and ear are good. I'm not saying you have bad technique but a player who has weak or lazy technique will struggle moving to a fretless and a fretless will really highlight this as theres no hiding. You should approach playing a fretless no different to a fretted bass, you play them the same despite having a different voice, personality and expression but bad technique will show, be it a fretted bass or fretless bass. The other thing is it's really really important to get very familiar with a fretless fretboard. They do differ and just because you have lines, doesn't mean it's the correct spot to fret. So learn your fretboard and make sure your fretted technique is strong and the transition to fretless should be painless. Start slow and stick at it.

Thus is so true it immediately made me listen more than just playing my usual "patterns" Sounds airy fairy but I felt much more of a connection with it. I'm so used to 16th note type 70s obscure funk at like 104 bpm it's very difficult to just slow down. People have problems playing faster I have the opposite. Sometimes it just sounds amazing when I do though.

[YouMa]

1 hour ago, Frank Blank said:

 

...and that is the route to your fretless place. Forget Mick Karn, forget Jaco, forget busy playing, follow the last seven words of your sentence.

I hear you man. Fretless is an incredibly meditative experience. Its like hardly any drums just a big airy pad behind it and I leave open strings or a harmonic while Trying to play something sparse and meaningful over the top. It's a bit like singing I suppose.

[nilorius]

5 minutes ago, YouMa said:

I hear you man. Fretless is an incredibly meditative experience. Its like hardly any drums just a big airy pad behind it and I leave open strings or a harmonic while Trying to play something sparse and meaningful over the top. It's a bit like singing I suppose.

I see 3 options for You, man:

1.play only fretted

2.play fretted and fretless(if You feel that fretless is a different instrument)

3.play only fretless(if you REALLY feel that fretless is a different instrument and is the only one for You.

I preffer the 3.rd, but i keep in mind that i have that fretted Fender jazz in my room and situations in life can change everytime. So i play it sometimes, have fun and never forget about it. Nothing more to add.

[ezbass]

As much as slides, vibrato and mwah are great fun and are pretty much the de facto, trademarks of fretless, also set some time aside avoiding these and try and make it sound like a fretted bass (accurate fingering, using the fingertips, without vibrato). The ability to move between these techniques means that when you break out those trademark, fretless tones, they’ll stand out as features, rather than being full on, all the time.

[Linus27]

8 minutes ago, ezbass said:

As much as slides, vibrato and mwah are great fun and are pretty much the de facto, trademarks of fretless, also set some time aside avoiding these and try and make it sound like a fretted bass (accurate fingering, using the fingertips, without vibrato). The ability to move between these techniques means that when you break out those trademark, fretless tones, they’ll stand out as features, rather than being full on, all the time.

 

Yep, I agree with this also and would also add that you should try and find your own voice, rather than trying to sound like a fretless. I describe my tone as Jamerson Motown played on a fretless but occasionally I break into a bit of Pino/Giblin which gets people to sit up and then I drop back into holding the bottom end. Typical example of this was last Wednesday, I was playing a gig and a drummer came up to me after, complimented me on my playing, said he had to stand up at the back as he wanted to listen to my playing. He said he could hear a lots of Mick Khan in my playing and very fretless inspired playing and it would sound amazing on a fretless. I thanked him and then pointed out I was playing fretless 😝

[YouMa]

16 minutes ago, nilorius said:

I see 3 options for You, man:

1.play only fretted

2.play fretted and fretless(if You feel that fretless is a different instrument)

3.play only fretless(if you REALLY feel that fretless is a different instrument and is the only one for You.

I preffer the 3.rd, but i keep in mind that i have that fretted Fender jazz in my room and situations in life can change everytime. So i play it sometimes, have fun and never forget about it. Nothing more to add.

Thanks mate It's amazing how everyone who has commented so far is exactly in line with how I feel. It's just taught me how to listen again. I don't think I have properly listened for years. The guy who mentioned the lined thing was right aswell as you have to nip it a few mil left or right of the marker and I always though I was tone deaf! It's like the instrument is teaching me to pay again.

[YouMa]

2 hours ago, Frank Blank said:

 

...and that is the route to your fretless place. Forget Mick Karn, forget Jaco, forget busy playing, follow the last seven words of your sentence.

Thanks Frank legendary comment. Are you a Buddhist mate.If not that was very sage like.haha.

[Hellzero]

I can't agree more with @Frank Blank.

 

Being myself a fretless player for close to 40 years, what I tell people asking me how to play fretless is to listen to the tone of each and every note you play and appreciate that special fretless tone raising ... slowly up to the climax of the note(s): That's a fantastic moment.

 

Play fretless the way you talk, tell a story, use punctuation, breathing, pauses, accelerations, silences, and sometimes emphasise a single note by letting it ring.

 

This is the way I play fretless, and just like @Linus27 also said, when you can also make your fretless sound like a fretted, then it means you've mastered it.

 

Use opened strings and harmonics to improve your intonation and don't be afraid to play (complex) chords as they will also improve your intonation.

 

Also try to develop a sound on your own, something personal.

 

And remember: no frets, no limits.

[YouMa]

I do think the simple set up helps as well I can go through everything I have including filters on hardware synths which is interesting but limit myself to 1 pedal normally chorus or octave even just going through an uncoloured studio monitor sounds so much better. On the subject of preamp why are not more people selling filter based preamp they are so much better.

Edited June 20, 2023 by YouMa

[Boodang]

I started playing bass on a fretless (it was the coolest looking bass in the shop!) and didn't pickup a fretted bass until 20 years later. I find a fretless much more expressive and actually struggle with a fretted. As has been said, work on getting accurate fingering but also make that fluid when playing phrases so you save the fretless expressiveness for when it's needed ie. not all the time! Also, don't forget the plucking hand.... I play mostly over the 15th - 17th 'fretless' area. Moving the plucking fingers around makes a big difference in tone and affects how I play. There's more 'bloom' to the notes when you play in this area, so it definitely slows you down.

[BlueMoon]

Follow Frank’s wise advice above and persevere in the enjoyment. I can assure you that it will be worth it. 

[BassTractor]

You can either listen to your own thoughts and the wisdom already expressed, or ...

... just shove it through Autotune and be a star like Cher!