Unsung heros - amplifiers and speakers that are far better than they ought to be..

[VTypeV4]

6 minutes ago, ebenezer said:

A big nod must go to the Peavey Databass combo... very compact, 450 watt digital power amp with processor controlled low end along with DDT compression going through a 15 black widow speaker....blew your socks off!!!...all this 25 years ago...how ahead of the time were they!

 

When I was at college many moons ago, there weren't any of these big power, widow-loaded marvels of the time but there were many a humble TKO. They took a kicking day in day out and never once in all the time I was there did I ever know of a single failure and they were far from new when I started!

 

I always admired the Databass combo - so much power packed into that compact box although I expect they still weighed a ton? Peavey seemed to use lead-lined wood for their enclosures back then not to mention the BW driver had it's own concentrated gravity field too.. There's one on FB now for £120 - seems pretty reasonable to me.

[Mykesbass]

@ebenezerhas just reminded me of the amazing Yamaha BBT500 amp. Very early class D digital amp, which had its drawbacks (especially when it failed and NOBODY knew how to repair it. 

I remember gigging this at the Railway in Ipswich - a big pub that had their own backline. Their Hartke rig was a 115 and 410 with signs on it DO NOT TURN UP ABOVE 4. Landlady came storming downstairs to see who cranked the bass up, took one look at the Yamaha's tiny 110, shrugged her shoulders and went back upstairs. That little speaker cab was way ahead of it's time in size and weight.

[Pow_22]

I know Ashdown isnt exactly an 'unsung hero' but for me their hidden gem, as it were, is the Spyder Dual Tube series.  Ive never been a fan of their cabs but as a P bass/flats player the Spyders sound stunning through an array of cabs ive used over the years, the pinnacle being the Ampeg 212AV

[Baloney Balderdash]

9 hours ago, ebenezer said:

A big nod must go to the Peavey Databass combo... very compact, 450 watt digital power amp with processor controlled low end along with DDT compression going through a 15 black widow speaker....blew your socks off!!!...all this 25 years ago...how ahead of the time were they!

No such thing as a digital poweramp, simply not possible.

 

I am sure you mean Class D, which is very much analog.

[casapete]

25 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

No such thing as a digital poweramp, simply not possible.

 

I am sure you mean Class D, which is very much analog.

Peavey did refer to them as ‘digital’, although I believe the digital bit was in the processing

somewhere that controls the EQ.

[warwickhunt]

It's misleading but many people refer to Class D as 'digital' and it isn't worth getting hung up on it; the terminology may be wrong but it isn't like folk don't know what you mean.  Aside from Peavey I'm sure I've seen a few manufacturers refer to their amplifiers as being 'digital' when in fact they are Class D power sections.

[Baloney Balderdash]

31 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

It's misleading but many people refer to Class D as 'digital' and it isn't worth getting hung up on it; the terminology may be wrong but it isn't like folk don't know what you mean.  Aside from Peavey I'm sure I've seen a few manufacturers refer to their amplifiers as being 'digital' when in fact they are Class D power sections.

I'd say it's worth enlightening people if they genuinely doesn't know, hard to tell if they do or not, but personally I'd prefer being corrected in my misconceptions, being taught something new, and becoming more knowledgeable.  

 

Knowledge is definitely worth it as far as I am concerned, and one ought to appreciate and not get offended by being taught something new, at least if it is done in a respectful and non patronizing manner.    

 

Also I think it actually is valid to care about using the right terminology, as using the wrong terminology even if being aware of the correct one might mislead other people who are not aware into thinking it is factual information. 

 

And as it happens to be I actually was once of the misconception that Class D meant digital, and I am glad someone bothered to tell me that that wasn't the case, and Class D amps indeed very much is analog technology, which got me to look it up and read up on it.

  

Edited July 6, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[asingardenof]

On 01/07/2023 at 01:47, VTypeV4 said:

Number 1 goes all the way back to 1998 / 99 and my early years of playing. Wanting a small and portable combo I could carry (unlike the heavy valve amp and WEM cabs I was using), my step dad and I went amp shopping. We tried a few home / practice amps in the local shops but all were a little underwhelming and we were about to give up but he suggested we go up to Academy of Sound store despite most of their stock being new. The words 'Trace' and 'Elliot' meant nothing to me at the time but a little green furry covered amp with 'Boxer 30' written on the black and green panel was sat there amongst much bigger examples. He said we should try it although it was likely to be alot more expensive as it was a Trace. It blew everything else we tried that day clean out of the water - it was louder, cleaner and had a proper, full sound. I paid £100 for it brand new - even to this day, I consider it good value and was very pleased with how it sounded. 25 years later, I don't have the little Boxer (I traded it for a Squier Tele, I think) but I do have any number of green furry boxes with the words 'Trace Elliot' on them and, despite them being much bigger that little Boxer helped pave the way. 

 

I toyed with a few practice combos when I had some student loan money burning a hole in my bank account, including a Laney kickback combo and very nearly a tiny SWR thing (possibly a Workingman's 10?), but once I tried the Boxer 65 that did it for me. Sadly had to say goodbye to it this year after 25 years to free up space, but I'm happy to still have a Trace amp in my collection in the shape of my Elf head.

[VTypeV4]

10 hours ago, asingardenof said:

 

I toyed with a few practice combos when I had some student loan money burning a hole in my bank account, including a Laney kickback combo and very nearly a tiny SWR thing (possibly a Workingman's 10?), but once I tried the Boxer 65 that did it for me. Sadly had to say goodbye to it this year after 25 years to free up space, but I'm happy to still have a Trace amp in my collection in the shape of my Elf head.

 

I always liked the Commando 10, too - a slightly later model with a few more features, a 10" Celestion and the same 65w power stage in the big Boxer. I'm not looking at the one currently on eBay. 🤣 Glad you have an ELF although I've still not tried one, yet..

[asingardenof]

2 hours ago, VTypeV4 said:

 

I always liked the Commando 10, too - a slightly later model with a few more features, a 10" Celestion and the same 65w power stage in the big Boxer. I'm not looking at the one currently on eBay. 🤣 Glad you have an ELF although I've still not tried one, yet..

Do it! 😁

[Kiwi]

On 06/07/2023 at 06:40, VTypeV4 said:

I always admired the Databass combo - so much power packed into that compact box.

So much yes!! I remember playing one in the late eighties and feeling impressed by how firm the midrange sounded. That was back at a time when my gear knowledge was virtually non existent. At one point about ten years ago i even started hunting one down on ebay but never found one within the available window of interest.  Good call.

[VTypeV4]

On 06/07/2023 at 23:32, asingardenof said:

Do it! 😁

 

Oh man! I am really quite tempted although I really don't need any more black and green boxes saying 'Trace Elliot' on them, ha!

 

18 hours ago, Kiwi said:

So much yes!! I remember playing one in the late eighties and feeling impressed by how firm the midrange sounded. That was back at a time when my gear knowledge was virtually non existent. At one point about ten years ago i even started hunting one down on ebay but never found one within the available window of interest.  Good call.

 

I expect they'd be the ultimate 'rough and ready' gigging machine a few years back - small enough to go in the boot of the car and pokey enough to knock a hole in a wall! As clean as an EBS? As much character as an Ampeg? As much control as a Trace? Probably not, but as a  'proper' rock 'n' roll all transistor bass amp, it should probably seen as Peavey at it's best, I'd say.  

[Newfoundfreedom]

I don't know if I'd call it an unsung hero. I've certainly sung it's praises many times on here, but the Bugera Veyron is an absolute monster of an amp with a superb tone range and more power than you're ever likely to need. I've been using mine for over 3 years now and it's been nothing but excellent. If I needed to replace it the only thing I'd buy is another one the same. 

 

My biggest surprise was a couple of years ago I took a punt on those Whatfdale cabs Andertons were knocking out for next to nothing. There were absolutely brilliant and well above my expectations. I sold them on only because they were too heavy for me to lug around to gigs. The new owner was also well pleased with them and I got back pretty much what I paid for them new. Can't complain at that. 

[asingardenof]

14 hours ago, VTypeV4 said:

 

Oh man! I am really quite tempted although I really don't need any more black and green boxes saying 'Trace Elliot' on them, ha!

 

"Need" doesn't enter into it. 

 

I bought mine as a backup to my ABM but am going to give it a whirl for a smallish gig tonight and keep the ABM in reserve.

[BassmanPaul]

in the late Sixties I bought a Leak TL50+ for 5 Quid. I built a single ECC83 pre-amp for it that plugged into the pre-amp socket on the leak which provided the power. The circuit I used was essentially the Normal Channel of the Fender Bassman. It worked very well and it was the best sound I ever had playing in the UK. The Cathode biased KT88s really impressed me. When I left the band to get married the bandleader asked me if I would trade it for an actual Bassman. I did as I figured the Fender would be worth more when I sold it.

 

[Baloney Balderdash]

5 minutes ago, BassmanPaul said:

in the late Sixties I bought a Leak TL50+ for 5 Quid. I built a single ECC83 pre-amp for it that plugged into the pre-amp socket on the leak which provided the power. The circuit I used was essentially the Normal Channel of the Fender Bassman. It worked very well and it was the best sound I ever had playing in the UK. The Cathode biased KT88s really impressed me. When I left the band to get married the bandleader asked me if I would trade it for an actual Bassman. I did as I figured the Fender would be worth more when I sold it.

 

So what you are basically saying is that you sacrificed tone for money?

 

Edited July 8, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[BassmanPaul]

1 minute ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

So what you are basically saying is that you sacrificed tone for money?

 

Not really as I was moving to a job in South Wales and wouldn't be playing for a long time.

[Baloney Balderdash]

11 minutes ago, BassmanPaul said:

Not really as I was moving to a job in South Wales and wouldn't be playing for a long time.

So what you are basically saying is that you sacrificed music for money? 

 

Did your wife (I assume), and apologize if I am getting too personal here, force you to make this sacrifice in the name of "love"?

 

(Really I am not being personal, just kidding playing the Devil's advocate /👹)

 

Edited July 8, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[warwickhunt]

16 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

So what you are basically saying is that you sacrificed tone for money?

 

 

Why would it be a sacrifice?  Use the profit to make/buy an amp with even better tone.  I've known many occasions where I thought I had the best sound I could get... till I found something better. 

 

 

[BassmanPaul]

As a man with a newly pregnant wife I naturally needed more money.

 

I met her at a gig called Nalgo, which is somewhere off Queens Drive in Liverpool, on June 06 1968. We were married April 26 1969. Fifty four years later we're still together.

 

As for tone, the Leak through a Marshall 4x12 was far better than a Bassman through the same cabinet. I am really not a fan of the Bassman.

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

The tiny Roland Microcube Bass RX practice amp is a little wonder. It is perfect for low volume home practice, but can be loud enough for accompanying unamplified acoustic guitars & cajon, can be powered by batteries, and to my ears sounds exponentially better than any similarly sized practice amp I have heard — and it is good enough for recording.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Jean-Luc Pickguard

[stevie]

On 08/07/2023 at 08:13, Newfoundfreedom said:

I don't know if I'd call it an unsung hero. I've certainly sung it's praises many times on here, but the Bugera Veyron is an absolute monster of an amp with a superb tone range and more power than you're ever likely to need. I've been using mine for over 3 years now and it's been nothing but excellent. If I needed to replace it the only thing I'd buy is another one the same.

 

You've got to hand it to Behringer - when they do it right, they make the competition look silly. I had the BX4500H head for a while and it easily kept up in terms of sound quality an output with the lightweight amp I had at the time - a Markbass LM3, I think. The only problem with it was a noisy fan, which I fixed with some resistors. It's a great second-hand buy for the impecunious bass player. I'm currently using the Bugera Veyron, which is *much* cheaper than the  Aguilar Tonehammer it replaced.

[Count Bassy]

On 06/07/2023 at 09:10, Baloney Balderdash said:

No such thing as a digital poweramp, simply not possible.

 

I am sure you mean Class D, which is very much analog.

Don't start that old debate up again.

[BassmanPaul]

26 minutes ago, Count Bassy said:

Don't start that old debate up again.

 Sigh!

 

 

[Chienmortbb]

 

59 minutes ago, Count Bassy said:

Don't start that old debate up again.

Most class D amps use a type  of modulation called Pulse Width Modulation. It is  more a radio modulation technique, think of AM, FM, PWM. It is not strictly analogue and it is not digital. It could use a digital control circuit but the amplification is not digital.

 

At the time Class D was developed, we already had Classes A, B and C. Hence it was called Class D. 

Back on topic please. 
 

Edited July 9, 2023 by Chienmortbb