Chasing sound - new pickups vs preamp vs bass

[Fishfacefour]

Hi everyone, 

I love the way my cort B5 plays. It fits me well, its light, however I'm increasingly frustrated with the sound. I can't get the mids definition that I'm after. 

My fretless sire v7 sounds better but doesn't feel as comfortable. 

Is there mileage on trying new preamps in the cort? The sweepable mids in the Sire is really useful. 

Or would new pickups be better? 

 

I've tried a few different basses in shops recently and nothing has come close to the feel (this could be a setup thing?). 

The best sound I tried was a lakland 5502. But it's a bit pricey for now.... 

 

So, what would you do? Chase the different components or is there a bass that feels like the cort but sounds like a jazz? 

 

 

[Paolo85]

I'll follow the discussion with interest. I do like the shape, looks and feel of tje Cort A/B/C. Would you have the tools to measure the distance between the nut and the centre of the pickups for both the Cort and the Sire?

That would be helpful info. If they happen to be the same I would be surprised if you couldn't make the Cort sound like a jazz, although I think soapbar replacement pickups are not the cheapest and if you want an active jazz there's also the cost of the preamp

[Rayman]

Quite a few folks will say start with the pickups…. in my personal experience I always start with the onboard tone controls. A great quality Pre can really breath new life into perceived modest pickups. 
 

I’ve wasted a ton of money on expensive pickup “upgrades” over the years, and I’ve learnt, that to start with the Pre is a better way to go. Many will disagree with me.

 

If you love the bass, and intend to keep it, then that’s the way I’d go personally. However if you’re thinking of selling it, obviously don’t waste your time. Been there, done it.

[Doctor J]

I'd go with different pickups first. Your pre is just colouring what it gets from the pickups and, depending on how much you're adding or taking away, may or may not be doing much colouring at all.

 

The fundamental sound is always the pickups. The bass should sound good with everything flat, the pre just tweaks it to taste.

Edited July 5, 2023 by Doctor J

[PaulThePlug]

Are the pickups active of just the pre?

I'd try the pickups passive...

[Paolo85]

3 minutes ago, PaulThePlug said:

Are the pickups active of just the pre?

I'd try the pickups passive...

I think thee are the Bartolini mk1 at least in current models

[Fishfacefour]

Yes, should have said, Bartolini mk1 and markbass preamp. 

From what I've read you don't actually bypass the pre when switching it out, it just does a pseudo neutral setting. Not sure how true that is as there is a bit of a volume drop. 

 

[Al Krow]

2 hours ago, Rayman said:

Quite a few folks will say start with the pickups…. in my personal experience I always start with the onboard tone controls. A great quality Pre can really breath new life into perceived modest pickups. 
 

I’ve wasted a ton of money on expensive pickup “upgrades” over the years, and I’ve learnt, that to start with the Pre is a better way to go. Many will disagree with me.

 

If you love the bass, and intend to keep it, then that’s the way I’d go personally. However if you’re thinking of selling it, obviously don’t waste your time. Been there, done it.

 

2 hours ago, Doctor J said:

I'd go with different pickups first. Your pre is just colouring what it gets from the pickups and, depending on how much you're adding or taking away, may or may not be doing much colouring at all.

 

The fundamental sound is always the pickups. The bass should sound good with everything flat, the pre just tweaks it to taste.

 

Two opposite viewpoints that summarise the discussion really well! There's clearly truth in both statements.

 

Agreed that in terms of biggest impact on bass tone - it's going to be the pups. But a "tired" / underperforming (= worn out) pre is not going to let you get the most from your pups and in the OPs case, there's an issue around the mids which IMO is definitely going to be pre-territory as the first place to look to sort.

 

I found that changing a worn out pre on a former Carvin BB with a Glock 3 band was a game changer in terms of letting the tone from the pups and bass come through. Thinking about doing something similar with my Yamaha BB 2005 currently. 

[Boodang]

Try to get as close to the sound you want at source, ie the pickups. Preamps can only work with what they're given. 

[hubrad]

I have a Cort A5, which presumably has a very similar or same preamp, deffo the MK-1 pickups. I agonised for ages over getting some USA Barts into it, but at a fair old price(!) Then a secondhand Aguilar OPB-3 pre came up on here in Marketplace at a good price, so I went that way instead. Transformed the bass!

I've since seen on reading round that the preamps in Cort and Ibby actives are often considered less than musical in their operations.

My vote is get a good pre first. Alternatively, completely remove the current pre so you can hear the pickups alone. If you're happy with those then go  for the new pre.

Edited July 5, 2023 by hubrad

[Rayman]

It’s worth remembering, that a pickup is basically a magnet, and isn’t usually a particularly complicated component. The build quality and parts can vary massively of course.

 

 I retained the “cheap” pickups in my Sunn basses, because by removing the pots and dropping a great quality wiring loom in, those simple and basic pickups were transformed. The basses sound absolutely fantastic. For the price of a couple of looms (£40 each), the basses are perfect tonally, while avoiding the cost of two more expensive pickups.

 

In my opinion, the EQ plays a bigger part in that transformation of tone than replacing the pickups would have.

[Fishfacefour]

5 hours ago, Paolo85 said:

 Would you have the tools to measure the distance between the nut and the centre of the pickups for both the Cort and the Sire?

Will take a look at this. 

 

Thanks everyone for your input. Lots to think about. It's been quite a while since I've soldered anything but if a preamp comes up for a good price I might start there as the Bartolinis have sounded good in some other basses I've tried. 

[chris_b]

Maybe the best use of your cash would be to invest in a preamp pedal. A Sadowsky or Aguilar preamp pedal would elevate your tone to boutique levels. You won't lose any cash modding the bass and you can easily change the preamp if you want.

Edited July 5, 2023 by chris_b

[Rayman]

18 minutes ago, chris_b said:

Maybe the best use of your cash would be to invest in a preamp pedal. A Sadowsky or Aguilar preamp pedal would elevate your tone to boutique levels. You won't lose any cash modding the bass and you can easily change the preamp if you want.

This

 

I was going to suggest the same 

[White Cloud]

Once you start chasing 'the sound' you'll never stop. 

[Fishfacefour]

1 hour ago, chris_b said:

Maybe the best use of your cash would be to invest in a preamp pedal. A Sadowsky or Aguilar preamp pedal would elevate your tone to boutique levels. You won't lose any cash modding the bass and you can easily change the preamp if you want.

Yes possibly. I was experimenting with EQ in my multi fx. I do like having the controls to hand on the bass though. 

[Paolo85]

I imagine a possible problem with the preamp pedal could be that, as things stand, it would work on top of the existing preamp? This does not necessarily mean ot would not work nicely though

[Elfrasho]

I've only changed pickup on one bass, and there was a tiny change in sound, but it wasn't enough for to consider it a massive upgrade. I've never upgraded a pre, but if I were in your shoes, i'd be tempted to try that first- The B5s are great though, ive played one and can't remember thinking it sounding not so great.

[chris_b]

3 hours ago, Paolo85 said:

I imagine a possible problem with the preamp pedal could be that, as things stand, it would work on top of the existing preamp? This does not necessarily mean ot would not work nicely though

 

The preamp pedal is seeing a signal, it doesn't care if the signal is from a passive or active bass. I'd set the bass preamp flat and let the pedal do the work.

[Al Krow]

16 hours ago, Paolo85 said:

I imagine a possible problem with the preamp pedal could be that, as things stand, it would work on top of the existing preamp? This does not necessarily mean ot would not work nicely though

 

My VTDI preamp pedal interacts differently with my three gigging basses and I'm finding that it's not actually "adding" much tonally to two of them (in terms of what I'm looking for), and I have the VTDI by-passed with those two, as the basses are sounding fine already in terms of their pups & on-board pre's. So that's leaving me occasionally using the VTDI with my third gigging bass and thinking maybe I should sell the VTDI and get the on-board pre sorted on that bass instead?

Edited July 6, 2023 by Al Krow

[SubsonicSimpleton]

Different strings maybe?

[jonnybass]

Tricky topic, but i always start with strings.

 

Then my thoughts are different if the bass is a keeper or not.  If its a keeper then I'd be less worried out making "destructive" changes so pickup shape, pre amp knob count, switches etc can all be different.  If I wasnt sure if it was a keeper Id want any changes to be "non destructive" so no change to pickup shape etc.  I'd then look in my spares bag and second hand, and whatever came up first for the best price is what I'd go for.  If it improves the sound but not fully, I'd look at changing the next component.  If it does, I'd stop.

 

Did that with my Sire V7, didnt like the sound, went with Custom Newtone strings, I preferred it, but still lacking.  Had a spare Fender pre amp in a bag, changed it.  I now have a bass with a sound Im happy with.

[Fishfacefour]

Good point. I've been through a few different types of strings to see what works. Nothing has sounded quite right. 

Had daddario xls, Ernie Ball Slinky, chromes, currently on GHS pressure wound. They've got a nice high tension but definitely lacking some bite. Might try some pro steels for some extra zing before splashing out on a preamp... 

[TimR]

Try some Bass Centre Stadium Elites. 

[Skybone]

Or D'Addario Pro Steel's.

 

My vote would be to change the on-board pre-amp before anything else. Then look at pickups.